Posted on 12/09/2006 11:12:03 AM PST by stfassisi
And the Orthodox, and the Lutherans, and Martin Luther, and John Calvin, and Huldreich Zwingli, and Heinrich Bullinger, and John Wesley.
But please, go on believing Jack Chick's comic books.
Did Mary need to be saved? Was Mary Holy without the grace of Jesus? Was Mary really sinless? Why did Mary refer to Jesus as her Savior (Luke 1:47)? If Mary was sinless, she would not have needed any grace. Whether the Catholics are correct on this or not, Catholics put way too much emphasis on Mary. Mary is played a vital role, but is not the central figure.
So you personally are on the same time frame as "The Lord", and not living in 24 hour limited time as the rest of us poor humans? I don't think so.
So, once again, since YOUR TIME is limited, why not pray directly to Jesus?
It is not plural.
Well, the only (C)hurch that seems to believe what Jesus said in my post #35 is the big "C" Catholic one; the one that believes the Holy Spirit guides her in non-scriptural doctrines such as belief in the Holy Trinity (one God, three persons) and "Jesus through Mary."
If you reject those teachings, which are CLEARLY Biblical, why do you challenge those of us who are simply looking to pray in a different way? This way of praying may not be specified in the Bible, which is, after all, the story of the Prophesy, then the Birth, Death and Resurrection of Jesus, it's not about Mary. But this manner of prayer has been passed down as tradition, since the time of Jesus. We didn't just make this stuff up out of whole cloth 100 years ago.
By putting teaching of a Church above the Bible, I would suggest it is you who are believing in comic books. No where in the Bible does it say Mary was sinless. No where in the Bible does it suggest to pray to dead people. These are beliefs created by man.
I'm glad you bought up Calvin. He would have thrown-up reading the following:
And there are creatures that do the will of God voluntarily, because they want to. In order to teach us this most important lesson in life, that God wants us to do His will voluntarily, He did not become Incarnate without human cooperation. At the Annunciation, Mary represented the whole human race with whom God wished to join Himself, as the Church says, in marriage. God asked Mary to consent. She did. And by her consent, Jesus the Son of God became the Son of Mary.
Mary was Holy because God created her that way. We believe she was sinless because God wanted that pure vessel in which His Son was to be carried, and from which He would be born. She recognized the need for Redemption; after all, she was familiar with the Prophesies that a Messiah would come, and she included herself in the family of Man, and even if she didn't really need it, she identified with all of us who do.
Jesus honored and revered His Mother, should we not emulate Him in that respect? If He thought it was important that she be honored, it must be.
Correct, because to God, all those different denominations are called, 'The Church'.
Look up the terms emnity and magnify.
Was Eve created free from sin?
No, there is one Church and thousands of apostate, heretical sects.
"No, there is one Church and thousands of apostate, heretical sects."
Who are you to make that judgment?
"But please, go on believing Jack Chick's comic books."
I never even heard of Jack Chick until you posted about him.
I'm off to Church now, to pray to some statues of dead folks; one of whom is my Savior. I'll look forward to your answers.
The Lord said Church, do you contend that the Church did not exist until the Sixteenth Century?
Because all beleivers are a member of the church. There was not meant to be a man-made set of rules which decides who is a member and who isn't.
"The Lord said Church, do you contend that the Church did not exist until the Sixteenth Century?"
No, I believe the Church existed at the day of penecost. You?
You have built a huge, monstrous edifice, upon a simple statement that Jesus made (upon that rock...), with just about none of that elaborate edifice being clearly specified in the scripture. That to me is extremely scary. Cardinal rule... Any huge doctrine that is built on one or two verses, that can have various meanings, is highly, highly suspect. Matter of fact, the New Testament mentions absolutely nothing at all about Peter, in his new 'Pope role'.
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