Posted on 05/30/2006 3:59:13 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan
If you are speaking of Jan Crouch, she is not a preacher. She owns a television network.
The Mafia was (and still is) run by Catholics. Good Mass attending tithing Catholics. They gunned people down for money. Which is worse, TBN or the Mafia?
I told you that you should go down this road.
I oppose oppulence for Christian leaders. It sends the wrong message.
On the other hand, I have no problem with the pastor being appropriately supported based on the scope of the ministry involved.
As Marlowe says, if the pastor happens to be an author, lecturer, etc., there should be no less recognition that those fees, royalties, etc., are just as much his property as similar fees are the property of speakers or authors who are professionals in other endeavors.
"The formula is for the inside circumference of the molten sea mentioned in those verses."
Don't believe that nonsense. Embedded within those mysterious numbers are the lottery numbers for the next drawing. P-M is just trying to be spiritual about it.
Rick Warren lives high on the hog. He also tithes 90% of everything he makes, gave back all of the income he ever made from preaching and today makes no salary from preaching. I'm not a Warren fan, but he is far from a lousy example in this matter. But don't let that stop you from smearing wealthy pastors.
If opulence among our leaders sends the wrong message then opulence among our congregants sends the same equally wrong message.
The scriptures are clear that we are to "esteem them very highly for their works sake". The office of Pastor is a gift to the church to prepare the members to do the work of the ministry. Why short change the gift? From experience, those that are constantly complaining about the Pastor's remuneration package are usually the ones trying to control the Pastor.
This seems to be on point.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641249/posts
I've got three letters for you:
"K", "K", and "K".
Think about them.
...
Now that you've thought about them ... I've a small thought to offer:
This entire thread disgusts me. Its sole purpose is mindless finger pointing, it was inspired by a hit piece in the MSM, and it serves only to foster disrespect, dissention, and disunity among Christians.
I know whose agenda that serves. So do you. All.
I hear demonic laughter, off in the distance ...
Vade retro me, Satana!!!
This article was a subtle attack on Protestants, wasn't it?
That sort of stereotyping is repulsive regardless of the target.
Unless the target is the Democratic Party. Then it's an understatement. ;'}
Did you ever consider sending him an anonymous gift? Perhaps a case of cigarettes or a lease on an upscale apartment or a gift certificate to a Clothing store or a restaurant?
All my life I have endured Protestant criticism of the opulence of the Vatican. However, some of these megachurches have a cash flow larger than the Vatican.
That is BS. The Vatican has enough Gold to buy up all the assets of every Protestant church in America. That gold was stolen from the Peruvians and Bolivians and Mexicans in the name of the Catholic Church and thousands upon thousands of Native South Americans died in the process. The Gold that decorates the Vatican was purchased with the blood of the indigenous peoples of Central and South America. I don't think any protestant minister ever got rich by killing thousands of people and stealing their gold.
The opulence of the Vatican was purchased in blood. The opulence of today's megachurches was purchased with love offerings.
The John Gottis of this world are usually not regular churchgoers. They (and their victims) are often buried by the Church and they'll have their kids baptized by the Church and then married by the Church, but that's about it. You've watched too many movies. In parts of Sicily and Southern Italy the Mafia fights a running battle with the Church.
Add to this, the fact that in places like Italy, church-going is culturally more of a "woman thing" and not common among all men, still less Mafiosi, and you're left with a vanishingly small number of Mafia in the pews.
If you have have any information about Mafiosi tithing, I'm sure we'd all enjoy seeing it.
That aside, the "your bad guys are worse than our bad guys" line of schtick, is childish and lame. We can all point to miscreants who claimed affiliation to a particular religion until this thread stinks to high heaven.
It's also necessary to make a distinction between church policies/customs and the foul-ups of its members. It's one thing to empty the collection basket behind the Church's back and use the proceeds to buy a luxury yacht or condo and quite another for a Church to reward its pastors with material wealth which exceeds that of the most materialistic pagans.
Your history is interesting. St. Peter's was largely complete by the time that Cortez conquered Mexico and Pizzaro and his gang conquered the Incas. The SILVER and gold was taken by the Spanish king and much of it went into the hands of the King's debtors. When the Emperor-king began to get enough money he used it to finance his military efforts to subdue the Reformation in Germany and to stop the spread of the Turks into the western Med. English pirates fed on the silver being brought to Europe from America, and I guess that as much ended up in the coffers of Elizabeth's government as in Rome.
Have you ever seen (with your own eyes) a Catholic or Orthodox priest "sell forgiveness," or are you engaging a little bit of reflexive slander?
"Opulence"? You mean the decorations on the tabernacles and candlestick holders? That reminds me of the whine of the good lady in the Gospels when she saw another anointing the feet of Jesus with spices and perfumes. What a waste!!
This "opulence" is not personal, lest we gloss over this important distinction. There were no condos or boats in the last will and testament of Pope John Paul II and his successor will likewise depart this mortal coil with no material legacy, either.
It's not clear that the plastic-haired shouters who appear on our TVs are similarly living the Gospel virtues of temperance and modesty.
If a Church body is going to be known by those who abuse their offices, then the Catholic Church is as guilty as any of them. I warned AlaninSA not to go down that road. He chose to. I chose to respond. We're down that road now. The scenery is not all that pleasant, is it?
This thread is filthy.
Here's an example.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.