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PROPOSALS INVITED FOR MORE CIVIL DISCOURSE RE RELIGIOUS FIGURES AT ODDS WITH VARIOUS SENSIBILITIES
Quix | 18 MAY 2006 | Quix

Posted on 05/18/2006 7:43:02 PM PDT by Quix

PROPOSALS INVITED TOWARD A MORE CIVIL DISCOURSE RE RELIGIOUS FIGURES AT ODDS WITH VARIOUS SENSIBILITIES

The current thread regarding Pat Robertson is but the latest in a long tradition of certain flavors of evangelical Christian and particularly Pentecostal/Charismatic religious figures being thoroughly shredded by what--90% or more of the posts--usually in the harshest, most hostile, even demonizing wording possible.

It seems that when folks are perceived to be in such Pentecostal/charismatic categories, all bets are off, no holds barred--the most viscious attacks are the minimal Standard Operating Procedure. Instead of exhorting one another in Christian Love, the worst attitudes normally evidenced in the most ruthless of groups seems to flood out from many corners of the forum.

The forum rules about personal attacks are thrown to the wind--usually with great cheered-on fervor.

Personally, I don't mind the likes of Shrillery getting thoroughly castigated. They are the evil--even truly satanic opponents to everything this forum stands for. Ditto for the Jihadis. I think on that, all conservatives would readily agree or near agree.

However, when it comes to religious figures, there tends to be great haughty hostility to those not seen as kosher enough--and too often--for all those not members of one's own tidy little group.

We can ALL feel DUTY BOUND to "set folks Bibllically straight" regarding the horrible demonic errors of this or that figure. And, Pentecostals/charismatics usually make easy targets because we say things that are very uncommon in other corners of Christianity--though, interestingly, not at all uncommon in the New Testament Church.

But, from our perspective, we could say the same thing about John McArthur, for example. Or Dave Hunt.

Each homogenic group could come up with a list of popular religious figures from other groups that the first group considered evil and beyond the pale.

Then there's the great hostility between the RC's and the Protestants.

IF WE ARE REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT ACTING LIKE JESUS--THERE MUST BE A BETTER WAY to handle such perspectives. What are your proposals?

It's not up to the beleagured Religion Moderator. And Dear JimRob has been driven to distractions more than a few times and probably wished there was some way to send the whole religion forum into a black hole for good.

It seems to me that if we cannot police ourselves better on this score, that we may well not deserve to call ourselves CHRIST-LIKE = CHRISTIAN.

-----------------------------------------

I'm not suggesting that we ought not be allowed to state sincerely held perspectives which question another's stance as being Biblical enough or full of enough integrity or lacking in duplicity etc. We ought still be able to articulate what we perceive to be true and particularly Biblicly true vs UnBiblical.

But doing so so outrageously and in such devilish terms ought to stop and stop cold. PARTICULARLY ABOUT THINGS WITH REGARD TO WHICH THERE IS BIBLICAL ROOM TO DISAGREE, TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE PERSPECTIVE. I am not talking about the Virgin Birth, The Resurrection etc.

But we ought to have some mutually agreed upon minimal Christian standard for doing so. And we ought to police ourselves as well as lovingly each other.

-----------------------------------------------

Personally, my proposal would be

1. that things such as calling another religious figure a demonized, satanic, etc individual needs to be limited to VERY OVERT DEMONSTRATIONS OF CLEARLY DEMONIC BEHAVIORS AND STATEMENTS. That is, demonized behaviors common in the NT. Statements clearly and overtly blasphemous in starkly brazen and obvious terms--not interpreted, rationalized terms on the part of the hearer.

2. that naysayers from outside the normal Christian community--those hostile to the whole idea of Christianity and all the more so to anything remotely supernaturally Christian--that those sorts of hostile naysayers be soundly, persistently and totally discouraged from getting away with their viscious, demeaning, virulant rants.

3. That once the more strident of us have stated our perspective regarding a particular religious figure--especially 2-3 times--we would do well to let it rest and avoid ranting on and on and on and on for dozens of strident redundant posts.

4. IF WE CAN PUT THINGS tenatively and graciously, OK--perhaps a longer discourse would be warranted or merited. Graciousness deserves something extra in the religion forum! But the haughty, self-righteous-from Mt Sinai sorts of castigating-of-all-not-our-idea-not-our-tidy-little-box--that needs to go and go quickly.

5. Those failing to follow through with such guidelines might voluntarily or even at Mod's requirement take themselves out of the next X or XX such threads. Or perhaps they would be prevented/ordered to avoid all further threads on such a topic.

---------------------------

I'm happy to consider other reasonable alternatives. I'm just groping to try and find a workable, functional way which

1. Allows reasonable discourse and a mutually respectful sharing of all perspectives on a topic and even on a personage.

2. Demonstrates MUCH, MUCH, MUCH MORE of the unity of spirit and mutual charity which Christ called HIS FOLLOWERS to.

3. Prevents virtually every thread that involves Pentecostal/Charismatic figures and topics from becoming a bloody shredding fest ALWAYS at the expense of those of that perspective.

4. Brings glory to God instead of such a tarnished bad taste in everyone's mouths because of the awful behavior of God's snotty nosed kids.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; History; Humor; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: biblical; brickbats; charity; christianity; civility; discourse; fairness; fittingness; fruit; hostility; integrity; judging; judgmentalism; kindness; orthodoxy; reasonableness; religiousfigures; standards; truth; understanding; unity; wisdom
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1 posted on 05/18/2006 7:43:10 PM PDT by Quix
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To: Quix

I understand that under the new mod it is possible to label a thread for "devotional" use by a particular group and that no negative discourse is permitted on such a thread.

For example, I've seen a few Mormon devotional threads, lately. There are the daily Catholic and Protestant devotional threads.

You might consider posting a thread for devotional purposes and labeling it: "Charismatic Devotional Thread" or something like that just to see what happens. My guess is that it will be respected.


2 posted on 05/18/2006 8:02:13 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: xzins

Hi xzins,

Good idea. Thanks so much.

jm


3 posted on 05/18/2006 8:04:05 PM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: Quix

Sorry Quix. I would never attack Christianity itself. I believe in it. I used to hang on Roberson's every word. You get a little smarter about that after a while. He has dissapointed me many times. One of these days he is going to be right, but it is only going to be based on chance. I will never forget the Karla Fay Tucker ordeal. He flipped flopped on the death sentance issue. He had a right to change his mind, but he lied and said his stand had always been the same. Like I said- I used to hang on his every word and I know what he had said in the past. On a happy note...I do believe that the conversion of Karla Tucker was sincere and that she is with God. In the end she excepted her fate much better than Pat did. Now if Mother Terrisa had told me the sun was not going to shine tommorow then I would have believed her.


4 posted on 05/18/2006 8:20:00 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Quix

I understand your viewpoint. There is a minister even though I disagree with him that I like to listen to out of Houston on Sunday nights. He got shredded and the whole thing was slightly over the top. Of course that being said I made a negative comment about Pat Robertson on one of thethreads.

I would put people like Pat Robertson in a different category. The Republican and Conservative movement owes much to Pat Robertson. Who cannot forget his performance in IOWA in the 88 race that changed things forever. That being said he is different. Not too many religious leaders are or represent a serious face of the Republican party. In other words when he says things we often have defend it or least deal with it in the political realm. Whether its on storms or on his statements as to the State of Israel.

However you are correct. A little Christian charity should be pointed out. I am getting a tad tired of having to defend the integrity of every Bishop or Cardinal that speaks out on this immigration issue. OF course like Pat Robertson they have entered the political sphere both now and in the past so they are a little different from the average religious leader or Preacher. Still, honest criticism should be tempered a tad by a little humility and God's love if we are speaking from a Christian viewpoint on the thread.


5 posted on 05/18/2006 8:26:41 PM PDT by catholicfreeper (Proud supporter of Pres. Bush and the Gop-- with no caveats, qualifiers, or bitc*en)
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To: Quix; Alamo-Girl; JustPiper; nopardons; DAVEY CROCKETT; little jeremiah; Sam Cree; Salvation; ...

PING for your prayerful comments, if so led.


6 posted on 05/18/2006 8:31:23 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: xzins; Religion Moderator

Sounds like a wonderful new polilcy that I was unaware of.

But it feels a bit like jury-rigging, shoehorning a philosophical/theological/experiential topic into a "devotional" category. Almost not quite honest.

I wonder if it would be possible to declare a thread from the outset as FOR TRULY CONSTRUCTIVE DISCOURSE ONLY?


7 posted on 05/18/2006 8:33:59 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Revel

I understand. Used to live there in my teens and later.

Have gotten to the place that I have begun to believe that God tends to allow lots of spiritual leaders' clay feet to show through so much

SO THAT his kids don't put the human leaders on a pedestal reserved for GOD ALONE.

And, then some folks are just slow learners in terms of pride, humility, wisdom, etc. I know a lot about that slow learning bit, too.

Thanks.


8 posted on 05/18/2006 8:37:52 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Quix

I think that it would have to be devotional in nature....but I'm sure that there are charismatic devotional writers. I don't think I'd try to shoehorn something in that would be dishonest.


9 posted on 05/18/2006 8:38:29 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: catholicfreeper

Thanks so enormously for your great Christian wisdom and charity.

God's best to you and yours.

I agree with your points, BTW.


10 posted on 05/18/2006 8:39:40 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: xzins

I agree with you.

I guess I'm asking for another such protected category.


11 posted on 05/18/2006 8:41:18 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: xzins

Actually, OSWALD CHAMBERS is a Charismatic/Pentecostal devotional person . . . who actually didn't write anything. His wife took excellent shorthand and compiled his volumes after his death.

So is Jack Hayford.

Max Lucado often writes like it but is Church of Christ.

Pat R has some good devotional materials.

Corrie ten Boom was.

I think the Gaithers are.

Joel Osteen is. [This is NOT an invitation to the go-for-the-jugular folks to come out in droves--hint!]

Joyce Meyer is.

I'm sure there are others.

Thanks.


12 posted on 05/18/2006 8:45:56 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Quix

In 1984, she was sentenced to death. While in prison, she found God, and even as her death date approached and she asked for clemency, she claimed that she'd accepted what she'd done and she would now accept her fate. Amid nationwide appeals for clemency on her behalf, she was executed in 1998---the first woman to be killed by the state of Texas since 1863.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/women/women1/8.html

Last Words of Real People:

"Tucker, Karla Fay (1960-1998)
"I am going to be face to face with Jesus now. . . . I will see you all when you get there. I will wait for you."
In 1983, Karla Fay Tucker was found guilty and sentenced to die for the murder of Jerry Dean and Deborah Thorton. Tucker, a prostitute and drug addict, used a pickax to viciously hack both of them to death while they slept, leaving the three-foot long tool embedded in Thorton's chest. In her confession, Tucker graphically recounted how she had experienced sexual orgasms with each of the blows. While in prison awaiting decisions on her numerous appeals, Tucker became a darling of the American Christian fundamentalists--led by Pat Robertson--after she married a prison missionary and claimed to have accepted Jesus as her savior. Despite a massive public relations campaign by an unusual alliance of Amnesty International and the religious right to have her sentence commuted to life imprisonment, the State of Texas executed Tucker in 1998.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6537/real-t.htm


13 posted on 05/18/2006 8:50:41 PM PDT by Revel
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To: Quix
It seems that when folks are perceived to be in such Pentecostal/charismatic categories, all bets are off, no holds barred--the most viscious attacks are the minimal Standard Operating Procedure.

I would disagree, but as I said on the (new) Religion Moderator's thread,

I'm sure that we all believe our own particular theological bent "takes more bashings" than the other person's - especially since (what a coincidence), we believe our own particular theological bent is right, and the other person's is in need of correction.... Everyone claims their own group is being singled out, trust me! Each group has their own cross to bear, justly or unjustly. It's how each of us reacts to the perceived slight that marks our actions as "Christian" or not, IMO, and marks our posts (and our FR posting privileges) for removal when they're not.

Proverbs 25:15 tells us that "By forbearance a ruler may be persuaded, And a soft tongue breaks the bone.". And Proverbs 27:6 says "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy."
--------------------

That said, I'd like to comment on point 2 made within your proposal. Let me quote it first:

2. that naysayers from outside the normal Christian community--those hostile to the whole idea of Christianity and all the more so to anything remotely supernaturally Christian--that those sorts of hostile naysayers be soundly, persistently and totally discouraged from getting away with their viscious, demeaning, virulant rants.
I completely sympathize with your feelings and reasonings re silencing naysayers, but I am persuaded that, on the basis of John 13:33-35, that this is the wrong approach to take. Allow me to quote the late Francis Schaeffer via a short excerpt from his work The Mark of the Christian, to explain why:
The church is to be a loving church in a dying culture. How, then, is the dying culture going to consider us? Jesus says, "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one to another." In the midst of the world, in the midst of our present dying culture, Jesus is giving a right to the world. Upon his authority he gives the world the right to judge whether you and I are born-again Christians on the basis of our observable love toward all Christians.

That's pretty frightening. Jesus turns to the world and says, "I've something to say to you. On the basis of my authority, I give you a right: you may judge whether or not an individual is a Christian on the basis of the love he shows to all Christians." In other words, if people come up to us and cast in our teeth the judgment that we are not Christians because we have not shown love toward other Christians, we must understand that they are only exercising a prerogative which Jesus gave them.

And we must not get angry. If people say, "You don't love other Christians," we must go home, get down on our knees and ask God whether or not they are right. And if they are, then they have a right to have said what they said.


14 posted on 05/18/2006 8:59:44 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: Alex Murphy

I've always agreed with those words of Shaeffer's. Thanks for reminding me.

You are right. I had never thought of applying them to this situation.

I still don't think we need to UNNECESSARILY AND UNFITTINGLY be useless doormats to such visciousness from the outside, however. God can call us to it. But I don't think we need to have flesh driven martyrdom syndromes and I don't think we need to kowtow dysfunctionally to external-to-the Body ruthless shreddings--particularly in this sort of context.

That does not mean that our response should be other than Schaeffer outlined, imho.

Guess I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Maybe I'm missing something or not thinking things through well enough.


15 posted on 05/18/2006 9:09:44 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Quix
Guess I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Maybe I'm missing something or not thinking things through well enough.

And maybe you're not. IMO figuring it out is part of Paul's words in Phil. 2:12, i.e. "work[ing] out your salvation with fear and trembling"

16 posted on 05/18/2006 9:16:08 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:6)
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To: Revel

Bless you for remembering Karla Faye Tucker. I do indeed believe she has met Our Lord before us.


17 posted on 05/18/2006 10:07:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

I agree entirely. No trouble at all believing she beat us Home.


18 posted on 05/18/2006 10:13:25 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Alex Murphy

I think I may not understand your meaning. Perhaps I'm too tired. Could you put it in very simple terms, please? I think I'm agreeing with you but it sounds like you think I'm not. Or is it the other way around?


19 posted on 05/18/2006 10:14:45 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Alex Murphy

We know Paul didn't mean to bring about our own salvation because He taught that salvation was by Grace not works lest any man should boast. So we are left to conclude that once Jesus has guaranteed our salvation (yes, it is guaranteed by His integrity, not ours), our life thereafter will be lived in fear and trembling before His throne ... a notion I'm not at all going to reject regardless of the sources of the fear and trembling, if you know what I mean.


20 posted on 05/18/2006 10:21:11 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Quix
Your proposal is right on, Quix, but way, way too late, as the Believers were sent packing two or three years ago or saw serving the Lord in some other venue more productive for the Kingdom.

Remember the flood of vicious vitriol after Kenneth E. Hagin's going home? Instead of tributes? The Holy Ghost lives within you. Do you feel His presence here? Or, is this a whitewashed tomb, Quix?

21 posted on 05/19/2006 12:47:58 AM PDT by BikerGold (Reliously Uncoooorrrrect...Reliously UUUUUUncorrect)
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To: Quix
However, when it comes to religious figures, there tends to be great haughty hostility to those not seen as kosher enough--and too often--for all those not members of one's own tidy little group.

I have nothing against Evangelicals or Pentecostal/charismatic religious leaders – but having lived here in Hampton Roads for the better part of 38 years I am all too familiar with Pat Robertson. I do not consider him a “religious leader”, but a money/power hungry manipulator hiding behind religion and preying on impressionable Christians.
22 posted on 05/19/2006 3:29:39 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: xzins

His point isn't to have an article posted under "Devotional." His point is to encourage gracious discourse when it comes to Christian leaders who practice their faith differently from you.

We really do need to stop the knee-jerk hatred toward high-profile Christian leaders.

Are Freepers being influenced unduly by TV sitcoms, that mock high-profile Christians? Are we being influenced by the MSM that mocks them? We can do better than that.


23 posted on 05/19/2006 6:19:29 AM PDT by Theo
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To: R. Scott

You've lived in Hampton Roads for almost four decades. That's fine. But I went to the university he founded, and worked for some three years at CBN and CBN-affiliated organizations. I know enough about him to know that you are absolutely wrong, influenced by the same media that ridicule other Christian leaders. Read my bio for my take on Pat.


24 posted on 05/19/2006 6:23:46 AM PDT by Theo
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To: Theo; Quix

I was telling of the new mod's stated position about "devotional" threads.

That would provide SOME relief from the constant bickering on normal threads. I don't think you'll get away from that. Just my opinion, of course, but I think denominationalism and a host of personal issues further the bickering.


25 posted on 05/19/2006 6:43:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: Theo

I just looked at your FReeper page. Thanks for what you have posted about Pat Robertson, glad to see that it's balanced.

I agree that Pat is a grandfatherly man who has a heart to help people and to shed the light of the gospel at home and abroad.

You make a good point when you say that he helps more people in a day than most of us help in a lifetime.

jm


26 posted on 05/19/2006 7:25:33 AM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: Theo

I see you were active in “Operation Blessing”. A real money maker for Pat.


27 posted on 05/19/2006 9:09:41 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: BikerGold

Probably plenty of truth in that.

However, as God told the prophet . . . there are yet many (even lurkers) who have not bowed to baal.

HS must be within us in this era, for sure.

Thanks for yoru kind reply.


28 posted on 05/19/2006 9:52:16 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: R. Scott

My own discernment and the report of folks who have worked face to face with Pat is quite different from your perspective. I think I trust their report more as I know them and their discernment more.

And, it appears, feels to me like your perspective may well have some strong bias coloring it.


29 posted on 05/19/2006 9:54:08 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Theo

I think it's basically ego and the heart of man, Theo.

I felt long ago when I was asking God about all the denominational splits . . . that His reply was that it had nothing to do with theology--that the theological justifications and rationalizations were ego driven excuses for pride/relationship/psychology issues between the bretheren involved at the time.

I've observed since then, that in virtually every church conflict etc. I've been around, that was the case.


30 posted on 05/19/2006 9:55:52 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Theo

Thanks tons. I love first hand experience, face to face facts.


31 posted on 05/19/2006 9:56:34 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: xzins

I think if personal psychology stuff--usually pride, turf issues, control issues--were not a factor, the denominational issues could take their proper lesser place with graciousness and brotherly love.

I think it CAN be done. Else Holy Spirit and Christ's example are too week for FR's brand of sins? I don't think so. But we must be willing to doggedly put Christ and His values and priorities first above our biases and ego driven junk. I'm not overly optimistic--unless we could have another category of more or less protected GRACIOUS DISCOURSE type threads.

There's something in the heart of man that 'glories' in:

"--There--take that--you ignorant unlearned serf. About time you recognized the truly truest true truth from MY hand and keyboard! Harumph."

We each have to recognize such stuff from the pit and reject, renounce it and choose Christ's Love and graciousness over it--persistently, doggedly--OVERCOMINGLY.

imho.


32 posted on 05/19/2006 10:01:04 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: xzins
You might consider posting a thread for devotional purposes and labeling it: "Charismatic Devotional Thread" or something like that just to see what happens. My guess is that it will be respected.

I would make sure the assembly is not disturbed on a thread labeled that way.
33 posted on 05/19/2006 10:06:55 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: R. Scott; All

I see you were active in “Operation Blessing”. A real money maker for Pat.
- - -

You are absolutely wrong. And I think you owe Pat an apology and The Lord some repentance.

OPERATION BLESSING IS 100% DELIVERED TO THE NEEDY END USERS.

Pat's organization covers the overhead and delivers 100% of the Operation Blessing donations to the end user.

You could not have been MORE WRONG.


34 posted on 05/19/2006 10:18:34 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Religion Moderator

Praise God for your Wisdom and Faithfulness and tireless labors in our behalf and in behalf of The Kingdom.

Would you be willing to please spell out for my sometimes muddled mined specifically and clearly what sort of thread you'd feel fitting to be under such a label as:

"CHARISMATIC DEVOTIONAL THREAD"


35 posted on 05/19/2006 10:21:07 AM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: R. Scott

You don't seem to know much about civility.

Not to mention you are completely wrong about Operation Blessing. That money is ALL used for the needy. Every penny of it.

If you can't show civility, please go away.


36 posted on 05/19/2006 10:21:49 AM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: Quix; Religion Mod

ping to #33

I've thought of how to label a discussion thread as a denomination only thread, but it bogs down at the admin level. Someone would have to keep an eye on it.

My own sense, though, when I approach almost any obviously denominational thread is to participate minimally unless the title of the thread is worded negatively toward others.

For Example: "Rostarians Uber Alles....9 million Protestants realize the truth and covert to the real religion"

That kind of title is an invitation to contribute a few carefully selected words.


37 posted on 05/19/2006 10:22:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: All
Discuss the issues all you want - but do not make it personal.
38 posted on 05/19/2006 10:23:26 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

RM, could you please take a look at post 27?

Seems to me the poster is doing the very thing we were trying to avoid.

thanks,
jm


39 posted on 05/19/2006 10:23:45 AM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: Religion Moderator

RM, I am sorry, but Operation Blessing, one of CBN's outreach ministries, has public records showing that the funding IS given to the needy, not pocketed by Pat Robertson. I am not comfortable with him being falsely accused of such.

jm


40 posted on 05/19/2006 10:26:30 AM PDT by JockoManning (Listen Online http://www.klove.com)
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To: JockoManning
Post 27 is not a problem because (a) this is not a devotional or church-like thread where challenges would be disallowed and (b) it was not personal towards another Freeper.

Also, the challenge was countered in a subsequent post.

41 posted on 05/19/2006 10:28:07 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: JockoManning; Quix

Consider this an opportunity to repair any misunderstandings that may exist concerning the leaders of your faith. Just be sure to discuss the issues and never make it personal (towards another Freeper) - to avoid problems.


42 posted on 05/19/2006 10:33:22 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: R. Scott

I did help out with Operation Blessing for a couple of months in Colombia. They are doing good work in the worst neighborhoods (and in many of the middle-class neighborhoods).

You realize that Pat gave away over $200 million of his own money to ministries a few years back (following the sale of The Family Channel), and takes no salary for his work at The 700 Club?

He's done and said some silly things. I admit. I've done and said silly things. But you cannot just write him off as a money-grubbing phoney. He's not. He's a human who is acting out his faith in the Lord as best he can. Some mistakes. Some great things. Just like me. And you.


43 posted on 05/19/2006 1:40:20 PM PDT by Theo
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To: xzins; Religion Moderator

For Example: "Rostarians Uber Alles....9 million Protestants realize the truth and covert to the real religion"

That kind of title is an invitation to contribute a few carefully selected words.
- - - -

I think you are quite right. Some titles seem particularly and very 'thoughtfully' ENGINEERED to wind the folk up on FR whom the posters wish to harrangue and beat over the head with their particular proof texts and tidy little boxes. There is something outrageous and unChristian about that but I doubt we are going to come up with a gracious, easy, FR-ish way to neutralized it soon and certainly not overnight.

I think I am beginning to get a better handle on what other folks consider "personal." Sometimes it seems like there are an abundance of double-standards in such areas but I can't do anything about that. I can do better at insuring I'm not personal.

I would have thought that "apologizing to Pat" and "repenting" was not personal about a person's personhood. Therefore it was not personal. It was about someone's actions or inactions--which I construed as kosher. I'm beginning to understand that such is typically construed by others as personal. I shall do better.

I not only wish to play well within the rules. I want to go beyond them in being truly Christ-like in Love, forgiveness, extending the benefit-of-the-doubt that I would like, unto others etc.

Thanks for your thoughtful and kind responses.


44 posted on 05/19/2006 1:42:24 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Religion Moderator

never make it personal (towards another Freeper) - to avoid problems.
- - -

Thanks.

Am trying very hard to do that.

Sometimes I think I take the definition for that from what other people get away with and that's clearly a wrong place to get the definition for that.

Would you please, maybe in one sentence define very inclusively what "making it personal" would include and maybe a sentence about what it would not include?

Sorry but I can't trust the way my mind thinks about such things without very emphatically clear boundaries. I tend to construe all kinds of options where no one else would see them. Just the history of my mind. Sorry to need so much hand-holding on this issue but it's just my unique thought processes plus my history on FR that leave me feeling insecure.

Thanks tons in advance.


45 posted on 05/19/2006 1:56:24 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Religion Moderator

For example: Would this from another thread be too personal? Personal at all in your meaning?
- - - -

And, it feels, appears strongly to me that your standard/attitude/criteria is less than God's highest in this situation.


46 posted on 05/19/2006 2:10:46 PM PDT by Quix ( PREPARE . . . PRAY . . . PLACE your trust, hope, faith and life in God's hands moment by moment)
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To: Quix
There would be no personal reference of any kind if the statement were rephrased by removing the word "your":

And, it feels, appears strongly to me that standard/attitude/criteria is less than God's highest in this situation.


47 posted on 05/19/2006 9:16:30 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Quix; Religion Moderator
maybe in one sentence define very inclusively what "making it personal"

Here's an easy test: Any time the pronoun "you" is used, then something in that sentence is potentially personal toward the person being written to.

48 posted on 05/19/2006 9:17:16 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: Religion Moderator

CTR


49 posted on 05/19/2006 9:22:24 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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To: Religion Moderator

How many hours do you work?


50 posted on 05/19/2006 9:28:03 PM PDT by restornu (Elevate Your Thoughts!)
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