Posted on 01/13/2006 6:17:24 AM PST by sheltonmac
With the ultra-Calvinists? Yeah, I guess I am: why waste time debating a belief that, by its own tenets, cannot be debated?
What does the original post have to do with debating "ultra-Calvinists"? The most ardent Arminians I know would have a problem with Schuller's "gospel." Even "free-willers" have been known to preach on sin and the necessity of faith and repentance. What Schuller preaches doesn't even come close to biblical Christianity.
Still "Ultra-Calvinist" would make a good super-hero.
--stimulation, salvation and self-esteem!
what happened to:
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
"Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.
Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you."
or even more to the point: "Take up your cross and follow me?"
And your objection doesn't come close to demonstrating that you even understood Schuller's point, which is simply this:
Schuller points out that secularism promises things like freedom from guilt, high self-esteem, and the whole set of psychobabble terms.... I presume you agree with Mr. Schuller thus far.
Schuller then goes on to point out that while secularism promises these things, it cannot deliver them. I presume that you and Schuller are still on the same page.
Only then does Schuller then get to the point: if you really want that self-esteem, freedom from guilt, and the whole package, you need to be doing what God wants you to do:
When you become a goal oriented, goal managed person, that's how you become a God-managed person! That is how to live the God life that He wants you to live. Find out what God's dream is for you. What does He want you to be as a person? That becomes your goal. Yes, then far more than you know, you become a God-managed person, and you glorify God in your success! Wow!
Given the wording your complaint, I seriously doubt that you disagree with him on this. You seem to have latched onto some bothersome buzzwords, and overlooked the fact that Schuller actually agrees with you about them.
The lesson for you is: don't be complaining about the snippets when the full text addresses your complaints.
This is one sermon ... out of how many decades of work? I strongly suggest that you read the full sermon, which is considerably longer than the snippet posted here.
I'd suggest "Hyper-Calvinist" as a superhero, but I'd probably get suspended.
How ironic that somone would write such a snoozer of a screed decrying boredom...
Having read and listened to Schuller over many years (he was a "personal friend" of a former pastor of mine), I can tell you this is typical of the stuff he calls preaching.
It is man centered and not at all Christ centered.
Recently Mac Arthur noted that many evangelical churches are so busy preaching on doing well here in this world that they no longer preach on heaven. The result is that so called evangelicals fear death as it will take them away from a promised potential eden here.
Schuller is a motivational speaker for the world not a Pastor.
LOL
What does God want you to do?
LOL! I wish I knew.... All I can do is pray, read, and try to obey....
"It is man centered and not at all Christ centered."
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Do they ever make altar calls at the Crystal Cathedral?
To be honest, I have never paid much attention to Schuller. You may well be right on in your assessment of him. My response on this thread is geared only toward a comparison of the complaints about the snippet, to the full text of the sermon.
If one presupposes that he's approaching it from a Biblical viewpoint, then there's really nothing to complain about.
If you're right -- if it's just another version of the "prosperity Gospel" -- then I'd have to agree with you.
"What does God want you to do?
LOL! I wish I knew...."
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Don't say that! If you've been reading your Bible and praying you know what you need to do.
Trust Jesus. Place your faith in Jesus for everything.
Self esteem?
I'm proud of myself for being so humble.
Thats SELF ESTEEM for ya.
Only if it had an accompanying theme song. ;-)
ha ha...I consider that the best response to this nonsense feel good mumbo jumbo sermon.
It is, only what he promotes is self .
I have some compassion for him, I know that sounds strange cause he is a famous and wealthy man. But after years of listening and reading his stuff I am not sure he know Christ.
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Ecc 12:13-14 - The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil.
Oh, I don't think I'm really as lost as it came out. But I make a lot of mistakes, too....
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