Rumors can be misleading (Rochester bishop offers comfort to homosexual priests)

Catholic Courier ^ | November 12, 2005 | Matthew H. Clark

[NYer]

Ah, my bishop has been busy again.

You and victim soul. Scroll through the posts to read more!

[magisterium]

Your wish is about to be fulfilled, I believe. Soon. Benedict does not act of late like a man who presumes he has lots of time. Look for him to start bustin' some (mitred) heads...in an ecclesiastical sense, of course!

[Scotswife]

My apologies - I misunderstood your post.

I grew up on this diocese also. I knew one of the breakaway members of that church (very frustrating listening to her)
We have spent the past few years in a neighboring diocese that is more orthodox (for the benefit of the kids)
However - there are many good people we miss. It is frustrating to watch good folks who want to serve go off to St. Bernard's for their studies and come back speaking "Rochester speak".

I hope it doesn't take 5-7 yrs., but I believe that is the maximum time period before he is expected to retire.
It will take quite a strong personality to come in after Clark.

[Scotswife]

All this hoopla is giving me fond memories of Always Our Children...do any of you remember that wonderful pastoral letter?

http://www.usao.edu~facshateri/catholic/always.htm

A good response from Bishop Bruskewitz

http://www.wf-f.org/alwaysourchldspr98.html

Another good article...
http://aquinas-multimedia.com/catherine/aoc.html

I remember at the time how this pastoral letter was being heavily promoted at my (then)parish (Rochester diocese).

[Scotswife]

woops!
Let's see if this works...
http://www.usao.edu/~facshateri/catholic/always.htm

[tioga]

your first link doesn't work, can you repost it?

[tioga]

St. Bernards = "Rochester Speak".........LOL, we have noticed that as well. I back away from all of those in our church who have gone there. And of course you can hold NO position at the church unless you have gone there and been indoctrinated. It will take a few generations to purge this diocese of Rochester Speak, but I hope the Pope makes this a priority.

[magisterium]

And when he dies, will Bishop Clark find himself answerable for the spiritual destruction of this woman, her enablers, her associates and her fans? Years of coddling them without proper pastoral care would make one wonder. Should they all continue down the path of perdition without repentance, will they, in turn, be thankful for the spiritual guidance they received all these years from their bishop?

Every bishop in the world ought to have these words sewn into his mitre, and decalled on the dashboard of his car: "Everyone to whom much has been given, of him much will be required; qnd of him to whom men commit much they will demand the more." Luke 12:48

[victim soul]

Bishop supports gay priests in writing

Clark asserts in weekly column that diocese still welcomes them

Marketta Gregory
Staff writer

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051115/NEWS01/511150330


(November 15, 2005) — While the world awaits a controversial Vatican document that could ban gays from the priesthood, Bishop Matthew Clark assured gay priests and seminarians on Sunday that they are welcome in Rochester's Roman Catholic diocese.

"We deeply value your ministry," Clark wrote in his weekly column in the Catholic Courier, referring to priests who are gay and dedicate their lives to service. And to gay men considering becoming priests: "We try to treat all inquiries fairly. You will be no exception."

Clark was at a meeting of bishops in Washington, D.C., and couldn't be reached on Monday, but his column, which is distributed at parishes throughout the 12-county diocese, was apparently sparked by his concern over two recent events: Vatican officials visiting seminaries to study how students are being prepared for priesthood and a life of celibacy; and the soon-to-be-released Vatican document that deals with whether gay men should be allowed to become priests.

The content of the Vatican document has provided grist for the rumor mill. Some media reports claim the document, which was years in the making, dissuades gays from joining the priesthood; others say it gives bishops authority to look at each applicant on a case-by-case basis. Regardless, people in the pews are talking about it.

"I was really stunned that the bishop is basically saying that he is going to defy the Holy See," said Andrew Dick, a parishioner at St. John the Evangelist in Rochester who believes the document may state that gays can't be priests. "(The bishop is) obligated and all Roman Catholics are obligated to follow the directions of the pope. The thing that really struck me is he's pretty much saying, 'I'm not going to do that.'"

Jamie Fazio has a different interpretation of what the pope wants.

"I think what the pope wants is good priests," said Fazio, a Catholic who worked with an openly gay priest in Utica — a priest he and his wife thought enough of to choose as their daughter's godfather. Fazio is now a campus minister at Nazareth College and pastoral associate at Blessed Sacrament in Rochester.

"A gay sexual orientation only adds an ability to serve a wider group of people," Fazio said, adding that many people who are gay feel alienated by government, families and church. "I think (the bishop's column) was very much needed."

The content of Clark's column doesn't come as a total surprise to those who have watched his ministry for years. He celebrated a Mass with gays and lesbians, something he is still criticized for years later. He defended the Rev. Charles Curran, a priest whose writings on abortion and homosexuality drew attention, and eventual censure, from the Vatican — in particular from Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who is now Pope Benedict XVI. Also in the mid-1980s, Ratzinger's office ordered Clark to remove his imprimatur from a book, Parents Talk Love: The Catholic Family Handbook About Sexuality, saying that it differed from the church's teachings by adopting a more tolerant attitude on homosexuality, contraception and masturbation.

"When I first read (Sunday's column), I can't say that I was shocked," said Mary Burke, a parishioner at St. Jude the Apostle in Gates, "but I was very sad to have read that particular insight into what is going on in our diocese."

In the past few years, several priest abuse scandals have been uncovered and some of those, particularly the ones involving older boys, are linked to priest homosexuality, Burke alleged.

"I can't speak against the bishop because he is our bishop," Burke added. "He has to answer to higher authority. If the Holy Father has come to the conclusion that there have to be changes in regard to gay priests, then he should be obedient."

The column speaks for itself, said Doug Mandelaro, spokesman for the diocese. "The bishop writes from his heart. ... He is trying to be Christ-like and live out the words of Christ's commandment to love God with all your heart and to love your neighbor."

That pleases the Rev. James Schwartz, pastor at St. Joseph's Church in Penfield and director of seminarians for the diocese.

"I know Bishop Matthew and I know his genuine pastoral care for everyone," he said.

"We really need to speak pastoral support to people who are gay. We need to affirm them and not to do otherwise."

MGREGORY@DemocratandChronicle.com

[magisterium]

"A gay sexual orientation only adds an ability to serve a wider group of people," Fazio said, adding that many people who are gay feel alienated by government, families and church. "I think (the bishop's column) was very much needed."


Oh, brother! So, following that logic, if one is a pedophile priest, an even wider group of people can be reached, no? Does one need to be a thief, or a murderer, or an adulterer or a homosexual to "serve" the people afflicted with the propensity for these sins? Of course not.

This Jamie Fazio character needs some SERIOUS remedial catechesis! How on earth is he a campus minister at Nazareth College and a "pastoral associate" at a Rochester parish? It's bad enough that he's a layman filling these rolls - sort of makes the vocations crisis under Clark really hit home - but, as a person responsible, to some degree, for the souls to whom he "ministers," his outlook is spiritual poison for everyone within earshot of him.

[magisterium]

Oops! rolls=roles. Heh, heh!

[Coleus]

Bishop Matthew Clark's March 1997 Homily for Gays and Lesbians

 

Pastoral Center Administration

(585) 328-3210

1 -800-388-7177

FAX (585) 328-3149

 

 

try these:

 mclark@dor.org, shepherd@dor.org, info@dor.org,

[NYer]

If the Holy Father has come to the conclusion that there have to be changes in regard to gay priests, then he should be obedient."

Amen!

I've been around gay priests. They 'function' as priests but there is something lacking. I recall the (gay) pastor at my (now former) parish being asked by the more 'orthodox' parishioners, to have Eucharistic Adoration. A book was set up into which those who could, committed time to be spent in church. I chose the last hour. Entering the church, I looked towards the altar for the monstrance. All I saw was what looked like a small box. Upon closer examination, I realized that the box was the monstrance.

More worshipers arrived as the final service drew near. When Father held up the Monstrance, he wore his 'professional face' but he rushed the blessing. Afterwards, I asked another parishioner if we could take up a collection to buy a better monstrance for the parish. She told me the parish had several beautiful ones.

I'm not trying to be picky but this gay pastor has grown that parish to the point where he had to expand the parking lot. Yet when I pleaded with him to replace the Risen Christ with a Crucifix, he commented: "Christ was only on the cross for 3 hours but He is risen forever". My jaw dropped! And on those occasions when there was a Crucifix (Feast of the Exultation of the Holy Cross), he always looked uncomfortable ... not "in control".

Just some comments for what they are worth.

[Scotswife]

"This Jamie Fazio character needs some SERIOUS remedial catechesis! How on earth is he a campus minister at Nazareth College and a "pastoral associate" at a Rochester parish?"

Don't ya know silly?
Fazio probably has a certificate from St. Bernard's that makes him more knowledgeable than you.
You too could go to St. Bernard's and become more enlightened than the pope!

[Scotswife]

OK - let's try this...

http://www.usccb.org/laity/always.shtml

[Scotswife]

"And of course you can hold NO position at the church unless you have gone there and been indoctrinated"

Absolutely!!
Exactly the same situation at my home parish.
That's why the longer this goes on the harder it's going to be to turn around.
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise...if this captures Benedict's attention, maybe he'll decide it's time for a change in this Diocese.

[victim soul]

You wrote: "Maybe this is a blessing in disguise...if this captures Benedict's attention, maybe he'll decide it's time for a change in this Diocese."

Let us hope and pray that this is so.

[rochester_veteran]

I got the abbreviated version of the Catholic Courier with the bulletin at Mass this past Sunday. My family belongs to St. Christophers and you know who used to be our pastor (O'Neil). I got this sick feeling that overcame me and still does to a certain extent after reading Bishop Clark's article. For gosh sakes, one gets the impression that he's swinging in that direction when reading that article.

I've met Bishop Clark on a few occasions, the last was at my Uncle's funeral Mass (my uncle was a priest). He offered comforting words to us before Mass. We all appreciated those words. But then I read that article and witnessed the Spiritus Christi debacle and all the other stuff that's happened, I come away feeling sick. My God, what are we to do?

rochester_veteran

[trisham]

In any case, the two priests of our diocese told me that they are homosexual, and I am glad that they did. It seemed a great relief to them that their bishop -- to whom they are so closely bound in priestly identity and ministry -- should be aware of this important aspect of their personal reality. I know that I was deeply gratified that they entrusted me with that information. I had come to know and admire them through years of shared ministry. Their simplicity and honesty with me only deepened my regard for them.

**************

Something about this is unsettling. On the surface, it seems to be an almost Christ-like love he is offering these priests. Yet it seems also that there may lurk something under that surface.

[rochester_veteran]

Something about this is unsettling. On the surface, it seems to be an almost Christ-like love he is offering these priests. Yet it seems also that there may lurk something under that surface.

You've got that straight, exactly the way I felt after reading it, except I was a bit more that unsettled, I felt sick. There's been talk about the happenings and agenda in DOR, but I guess I chose to be in denial. This article, even the title of the article, Rumors can be misleading, make one suspicious of intent.