Methodist High Court Sides with Pastor Who Denied Membership to Practicing Gay Man

Dear Shroud:

You mentioned after you were defrocked that it was a sad day for the United Methodist Church. You are wrong. For those who love and fear the Lord, and adhere to His teachings and commands, it is a happy day. It would have been a sad day if you were celibate and did not advocate the homosexual lifestyle, but when you mentioned how your lover Chris would have to get used to being a preacher's wife and wearing big hats, you were celebrating and flaunting your sinful lifestyle. You were practically asking to be disciplined!

If you are going to be a pastor, you must have respect for God's Will, and you must not stand for anything contrary to it. I understand that you were born a lesbian, or you became one because of your environment. However, you must not let your biological and mental instincts lead you to do sinful things, and you must not let them allow you to make up your own doctrine. While I am certain you are normal just like everyone else, people do abnormal things and have abnormal thoughts. I am sorry to tell you this, but homosexuality is not normal, and it never should be. Those who are pastors must be knowledgeable of the Bible, and the Bible says this:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Leviticus 18:22 (KJV): "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind it is abomination."

Genesis 13:13: "But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly."

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Romans 1:24-32:

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

To this, many a liberal will say, "God is love." This is most certainly true, but God is all powerful and all knowing. He knows what we need even before we do. He knows what is best for us. This is why He sends us His Word, and it is our job to follow it--even if it makes our lives difficult.

I hope that your justified removal from your pastorship will give you the opportunity to reflect. Turn away from your sin, Shroud, and God will He will forgive you. However, you cannot be forgiven until you admit that your lifestyle is a sin. May God open your eyes and lead you down the path of understanding. Amen.

Theo, I didn't see that particular thread, but I did see the bishops' response.

They are smarting from the Judicial Council decision. For the non-homosexualites, they are upset that the Council just affirmed that their power doesn't extend to micromanaging admin decisions in a local church. For the homosexualites, they are bothered by the "loss of power" and by their inability to force their blindness on the denomination.

The only answer to the bishops is to categorically change the power of a bishop at the next General Conference.

They must become more subject to trial because they are almost totally insulated at this point. They must lose some of their power of appointment, and it must become "consultation" rather than "direction." They must be excluded from day-to-day operations in a local church. Finally, they must clearly be told that any action against any member (elder or otherwise) is always judicial and never administrative....that person must not lose their trial rights just because a bishop decides to be deceitful and play games with the system.

Very perceptive.

There are a number of things that are grossly wrong here:

1. An associate pastor turning in his senior pastor betrays an incredible lack of loyalty over a point on which the senior pastor was correct, but over which the junior pastor should have given his senior the benefit of the doubt, in any case.

2. The behind the scenes conspiring of the junior pastor and bishop is a betrayal of our system. From other accounts, it appears the junior was returned to the setting to collect additional info.

3. The worst item, and perhaps it is even civilly chargeable, is the bishop's taking of the pastor's job without due process by the subterfuge of treating it as an administrative issue. This is incredibly deceitful by this bishop, and it hints that her intent was to use the power of the system to excise and silence this man. She should be tried.

4. Finally, it is apparent that this bishop thinks that bishops should be able to micromanage the details of a local church from their positions miles away. This is horrible management practice in any organization, and the bishops should be disavowed of this notion.

Fortunately, the Judicial Council ruled correctly.

We must fix some issues with this bishop (and perhaps all of our bishops.)

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