Posted on 11/01/2005 9:20:23 AM PST by xzins
Looks like our high court got another one right.
Batting 2 for 2 this session in those items I was following. IRD is saying this confirms the UMCs strong desire to be associated with orthodox, historic Christianity.
I concur.
Congratulations!! Looks like a revival is starting in the Arminian churches again. Perhaps it will spread to others.
Perseverence makes a difference.
But the major difference is in growth. Power is shifting in the UMC toward those regions that are growing....leading others to Christ.
So, you are correct. A revival in "go and make disciples" if nothing else.
Well, I'm glad that the UMC is taking a strong stance against homosexuality. There's some other latent lunacy out there as well, of course, but by and large, the UMC looks to be the best of the mainline denominations. Certainly on the homosexual issue.
The church is getting its act together.
As with all hierarchical bodies, changes in denominational leadership bodies and seminaries are extremely slow, so we can predict those pseudo-believers to continue their temper-tantrum demonstrations to continue for another decade or so.
"“While the United Methodist Church refuses to bless the practice of homosexuality,” Mickle said, “we will not say to a homosexual person that your practice is so objectionable as to exclude you from membership in this body of Christ.”
“Membership is not reserved for the worthy,” Williams said. “It is a means of grace for all of us to become worthy.”"
For Orthodox Christians, it is clear that leading a life which is not in accordance with the teachings of The Church bars one from reception of the Mysteries of the Faith. Leading a life of homosexual activity, or for that matter, heterosexual activity outside the bonds of marriage, are examples of this. Under those circumstances, the sinner is cut off from the grace of the sacraments, effective from "membership" by his own actions, not those of The Church. In this The Church is being merciful, since, as +Basil the Great wrote:
"What is the mark of a Christian? That he be purified of all defilement of the flesh and of the spirit in the Blood of Christ, perfecting sanctification in the fear of God and the love of Christ, and that he have no blemish nor spot nor any such thing; that he be holy and blameless and so eat the Body of Christ and drink His Blood; for 'he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgement to himself.' What is the mark of those who eat the Bread and drink the Cup of Christ? That they keep in perpetual remembrance Him who died for us and rose again."
All of us are sinners,usually of the most miserable sort, but we are called to repent and at least try not to sin again. None of us can ever be "worthy" to receive God's grace, but we can try to live our lives in such a way as to recognize our sinfulness, repent and try to do better. An unrepentant sinner, or worse one who sua sponte decides that that which God has declared sinful is no sin at all, truly does eat and drink to their own condemnation, a fearful matter indeed.
The minister in question did the Christian thing for this fellow. Unless he is willing to put off his old ways, there is no place for him within the Church.
Can things get any better for me today? =P
Excellent post, your words were a ministry to me today.
Thank-you for the compliment, however those were not my words or thoughts, but rather those of one of the great Fathers of Christian Orthodoxy esplaining what The Church believes. Human nature hasn't changed one whit in the last 2000 years and The Church and The Faith have nothing to do with time at all except to exist apart from it. The words of the "God-bearing Fathers", because they speak to eternal Truth, might as well as have been said this morning as 1700 years ago. Its a shame the West has, if not rejected them, at least set them to one side. So many occasions for the Evil One to cause strife could have been avoided.
I assumed the last 2 paragraphs were yours? Certainly the last? Plus your reply post was a further blessing, so I definitely have you there!
Have you ever been at a point in your faith journey where you sense that you are being drawn close to understanding something about God's nature that's previously been just out of your grasp? I'm in that place and these words helped me get a bit closer:
...and The Church and The Faith have nothing to do with time at all except to exist apart from it. The words of the "God-bearing Fathers", because they speak to eternal Truth, might as well as have been said this morning as 1700 years ago...
I thought you would enjoy this additional good news.
There is vigor left in this mainline denomination; let's pray that it continue.
"I assumed the last 2 paragraphs were yours? Certainly the last? Plus your reply post was a further blessing, so I definitely have you there!"
Well, yes, those were my words, but all I said was what The Church teaches. Orthodox Christians are members of Christ's Church. We learn from The Church, from what The Church always and everywhere has believed. The Fathers were so advanced in theosis, in fulfilling their, and our, God created purpose of becoming like God, that a consensus of their thought explains to us what the Scripture teaches. The Fathers themselves are not infallible, but their consensus as expressed by The Church, is. So in the end it simply doesn't matter what I think The Faith is, that would define the church of Kolokotronis. But if we try to direct our lives in accordance with the teachings of The Church, often expressed by The Fathers, but certainly also in the Liturgy and devotions and services of The Church and paramountly in the Scriptures, then we are following Christ and not man.
"Have you ever been at a point in your faith journey where you sense that you are being drawn close to understanding something about God's nature that's previously been just out of your grasp? I'm in that place and these words helped me get a bit closer:
That's an interesting question. I suppose the answer is yes but you know, given the ineffable and completely transcendant "nature" of God, I don't believe we can ever understand that nature. The best we can do is comprehend what God is not. We necessarily anthropomorphize God, but in so doing we also necessarily define He how is beyond Eternity in mundane, time bound "created being" terms. The Cappadocian Fathers are reputed to have said, "I believe in God; God does not "exist"."
Now, if the question is, have I come to places along the Ladder where I perceive more clearly what God wants me to be, how to better focus the "eye of my soul" on Him and die to the self, then the answer is a resounding Yes! I hasten to add that acting on that knowledge is a hard thing and I often fail. In any event, whatever your question, I'm happy that what The Church taught me seems to have helped you. God Bless you. Pray unceasingly!
Sorry!
And this is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Yeshua the Messiah, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.
--1 Jn. 1:5-7
By no means did I intend to suggest that I felt close to understanding the whole nature of God - what I meant is that it seems as though a certain facet of God's nature, something I didn't perceive before, is slowly coming into focus, but still not quite visible to me. And, amazingly enough in light of another poster's reply, I had recently been pondering the 1st Chapter of John, lingering over some passages that I normally just kind of race through, trying to understand what it means that Christ, the Word, was there "with God" in the beginning - trying to to get my mind around some of these ideas.
I am also intrigued by your almost casual mention of "the Ladder" - a term I am not familiar with but instantly imagine to be something akin to Wesley's concept of "sanctification", the ongoing cleansing and maturation of the Christian through the work of the Holy Spirit, the journey towards Christ-like perfection that we are always on but never complete in this life. Is that even close?
Would you have a reference or two of a good place to read more on the Orthodox faith? Not stuff "about" the church but some of the wisdom of the consensus of the Fathers? For example, the quote from the Cappadocian Fathers presents a way of thinking about God that I had not considered before.
Thanks for all. Got the correction of the title also. Look forward to crossing your path again some time.
Perhaps this is their denominational "second blessing".
It could be a second "blessing."
May it not be squandered.
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