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What's Wrong With a "User-Friendly" Church
Grace To You ^ | John MacArthur

Posted on 10/31/2005 7:57:47 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past

What’s Wrong with "User Friendly"?

Recently, the 11th edition of the Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary was published. The reprint included 10,000 new words–words that will bring us all up to date. Words like "phat" (excellent), "dead presidents" (paper currency), and "McJob" (low paying, dead-end job) are among the entries that will finally help us communicate with our teenagers.

How did those words make it into the updated dictionary? There is one criterion: usage. A word qualifies for the new edition based on how widespread its usage has become. While I can’t imagine how phat, McJob, and dead presidents will find a place in America’s pulpits (e.g., "The love of dead presidents is the root of all kinds of evil"?), there is one phrase borrowed from the computer industry that has spread into mainstream usage in the church–it’s impact has been monumental.

"User-friendly" was first used to describe software and hardware that is easy for the novice to operate. Applied to the church, it describes churches that offer a decidedly benign and non-challenging ministry model. In practice, it has become an excuse for importing worldly amusements into the church in an attempt to attract non-Christian "seekers" or the "unchurched" by appealing to their fleshly interests. The obvious fallout of this preoccupation with the unbelievers is a corresponding neglect of true believers and their spiritual needs.

If you want to know how user-friendly a church has become, the emphasis, or de-emphasis, on biblical preaching is the yardstick. A church that buys into the new paradigm sidelines provocative and convicting sermons for music, skits, or videos–less confrontational mediums for conveying the message. Even when there is a sermon, it is frequently psychological and motivational rather than biblical. Above all, entertainment value and user-friendliness are paramount.

I once read through a stack of newspaper and magazine articles that highlight a common thread in the user-friendly phenomenon. These observations from newspaper clippings describe the preaching in user-friendly churches:

"There is no fire and brimstone here…Just practical, witty messages."

"Services at [the church featured in the article] have an informal feeling. You won’t hear people threatened with hell or referred to as sinners. The goal is to make them feel welcome, not drive them away."

"As with all clergymen [this pastor’s] answer is God–but he slips Him in at the end, and even then doesn’t get heavy. No ranting, no raving. No fire, no brimstone. He doesn’t even use the H-word. Call it Light Gospel. It has the same salvation as the Old Time Religion, but with a third less guilt."

"The sermons are relevant, upbeat, and best of all, short. You won’t hear a lot of preaching about sin and damnation, and hell fire. Preaching here doesn’t sound like preaching. It is sophisticated, urbane, and friendly talk. It breaks all the stereotypes."

"[The pastor] is preaching a very upbeat message…It’s a salvationist message, but the idea is not so much being saved from the fires of hell. Rather, it’s being saved from meaninglessness and aimlessness in this life. It’s more of a soft-sell."

So the new rules may be summed like this: Be clever, informal, positive, brief, friendly, and never, never use the H-word.

The pastors and leaders in the church-growth movement certainly wouldn’t portray their own ministries in that way. In fact, they would probably laud their success in drawing people into the church without compromising the message. But they fail to understand that by decentralizing the Scripture and avoiding hard truths, they are compromising. "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels" (Luke 9:26, emphasis added). If the design is to make the seeker comfortable, isn’t that rather incompatible with the Bible’s own emphasis on sin, judgment, hell, and several other important topics?

The gospel message is a confrontational message. When you remove the confrontation–or soften, downplay, or bring it in through the back door–you have compromised the message. The modern pulpit is weak, not for a lack of witty messages, but because men fear to speak the hard truths of God’s Word powerfully and with conviction.

The church is certainly not suffering from an overabundance of forthright preachers; rather, it seems glutted with men pleasers (cf. Gal. 1:10). But, as it was in the early church, when men are faithful to preach God’s Word with boldness, God will give the increase. "And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching…then fear came upon every soul…and the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved" (Acts 2:42, 43, 47).

When a sinner wanders into the church and sits through skits, mimes, interpretive dances, and the like, and yet never hears a clear, convicting message about his dangerous and tenuous spiritual situation–that he is a depraved sinner headed for an eternal fire because he is a daily offense to a holy God–how can that be called successful? You could achieve the same level of success by sending a cancer patient to receive treatment from a group of children playing doctor. A sinner must understand the imminent danger he is in if he is ever to look to the Savior.

C. H. Spurgeon, facing a similar mindset in his day, once said:

I fear there are some who preach with the view of amusing men, and as long as people can be gathered in crowds, and their ears can be tickled, and they can retire pleased with what they have heard, the orator is content, and folds his hands, and goes back self-satisfied. But Paul did not lay himself out to please the public and collect the crowd. If he did not save them he felt that it was of no avail to interest them. Unless the truth had pierced their hearts, affected their lives, and made new men of them, Paul would have gone home crying, "Who hath believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?"…

Now observe, brethren, if I, or you, or any of us, or all of us, shall have spent our lives merely in amusing men, or educating men, or moralizing men, when we shall come to give our account at the last great day we shall be in a very sorry condition, and we shall have but a very sorry record to render; for of what avail will it be to a man to be educated when he comes to be damned? Of what service will it be to him to have been amused when the trumpet sounds, and heaven and earth are shaking, and the pit opens wide her jaws of fire and swallows up the soul unsaved? Of what avail even to have moralized a man if still he is on the left hand of the judge, and if still, "Depart, ye cursed," shall be his portion?" ["Soul Saving Our One Business," The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 25 (London: Passmore and Alabaster, 1879), 674-76.]

That is precisely my concern about today’s pragmatic church-growth trend. The strategy focuses on attracting and keeping the unchurched. For what? To entertain them? To get them to attend church meetings regularly? Merely "churching" the unchurched accomplishes nothing of eternal value. That is where their strategy seems to end.

What’s worse is when seeker-focused churches baptize the masses with their watered-down gospel, assuring them that positive decisions, feelings, or affirmations about Christ equal genuine conversion. There are now multitudes who are not authentic Christians identifying with the church. The church is literally invaded with the world’s values, the world’s interests, and the world’s citizens. It isn’t an invasion prompted by overt hostility; people are simply responding to a survey that came in the mail. Ironically, Satan isn’t sowing the tares; church leaders are.

As you set your strategy for church ministry, you dare not overlook the primary means of church growth: the straightforward, Christ-centered proclamation of the unadulterated Word of God. If you trade the Word for amusements or gimmicks, you will not only find that you have no effective means to reach people with the truth of Christ, but you will find yourself working against the Lord Himself.

Adapted from Ashamed of the Gospel: When the Church Becomes Like the World, © 1993 by John MacArthur. All rights reserved.

© 2005. Grace to You. All rights reserved.


TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: gospel; grace; judgment; redemption; repentance; salvation; seekersensitive; sin; truth
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1 posted on 10/31/2005 7:57:48 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Oh my, good and gracious Lord Jesus of mine, here we go again with the "your church sucks" legalists. Where does the enemy find the people, O Lord, to write such constant attacks on Your people and churches? I guess the enemy never sleeps....
2 posted on 10/31/2005 8:34:26 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1

You didn't address anything he said.


3 posted on 10/31/2005 8:36:54 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

It's the same old song and dance. Haven't we all done this before? I'm convinced this is the work of Satan, pure and simple, because no group spends so much time attacking other churches, instead of going out and being light to the lost and hopeless. That's Satan, so no, there's nothing to address...


4 posted on 10/31/2005 8:38:29 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1

You can't be light to the lost and hopeless if you are not sharing the truth of the gospel with them -- if all you are is a mirror image of the world then where's the light? Where's the hope? You can't save them.


5 posted on 10/31/2005 8:40:25 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
So, a church that ENCOURAGES in the Lord, isn't "hard" enough for you? Not "religious" enough for you, though Paul said to encourage one another? I've never, ever, seen anything encouraging from you. Just posting articles about how churches are all bad (except your own, I'm sure).

I go to a "user-friendly" church from time to time, and they have the true Gospel. And they're blessed and happy, serving the Lord, and seeing abundant fruit, saved souls, and people turning from wickedness. Compared to them, you're pitiful.

6 posted on 10/31/2005 8:43:15 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Jesus never promised easy. The Gospel is a hard Gospel it does not flinch at suffering, it does not flinch in calling sin sin, it does not flinch in reminding us we are sheep who have gone astray. I love the prayer " Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner". That is my identity for eternity unless by the Grace of Christ I am made new.
User friendly Churches would do well to remember John the Baptist. He called people to Christ by preaching on sin and repentence. And in our age we could use a bit of fire and brimstone. We have grown lax like the people of Nivenah (sp)


7 posted on 10/31/2005 8:48:42 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: gamarob1

Encouraging each other how? Nowhere in this article does it say you shouldn't encourage each other. But you shouldn't encourage lies, or lies-by-omission. If your church preaches half a gospel -- blessings without costs -- then it isn't preaching the gospel at all. A half truth is still a lie. We shouldn't be ashamed of the gospel.


8 posted on 10/31/2005 8:49:48 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
You're the liar. And having been here long enough and having read enough of the posted stuff, I can say that. The Gospel is simple, but you and your cronies complicate it. You don't speak for Christ, but those who do, you attack.

They have the Gospel. Don't sit in the seat of judgment, thinking only you are right. You're not. And no, I'm not ashamed of the Gospel, but I am ashamed at how often these churches get attacked by those who, ironically, hold deviant doctrine, extrabiblical practices, and philosophies of man on so many things. Leave the rest of us alone, and clean up your own house first.

9 posted on 10/31/2005 8:53:34 AM PST by gamarob1
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

What’s Wrong with "User Friendly"?


Typically they are sinner friendly and God unfriendly.


11 posted on 10/31/2005 9:17:40 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: gamarob1
So your point is that you speak for Christ and I don't?

I think he spoke very clearly for himself. And then his chosen Apostles spoke for him. We have the God-breathed Scriptures as our guide to everything they taught. We don't get to pick and choose from the gospel -- I'll take this, pitch this, keep this, trash this..... It doesn't matter what you think or what I think. It matters what the truth is, and that you will find in the Scriptures.

12 posted on 10/31/2005 9:17:47 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: nmh
What’s Wrong with "User Friendly"? Typically they are sinner friendly and God unfriendly.

Exactly. Thanks for the transcript.

13 posted on 10/31/2005 9:19:10 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: gamarob1
The "enemy" of Christ is alive and thriving in MANY churches because people don't want to hear or accept that sin isn't s good thing. They want to "believe" but they don't want to change or hear there is something wrong in how they live or what they believe.
14 posted on 10/31/2005 9:19:49 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
THIS is a "user friendly" church - totally apostate.

But hey, as you can see, people even here will defend this type of slop. I just happened to be going through the channels and caught it. I don't normally watch ole, suck up, Larry King. It was amazing how ignorant this man IS and how people flock to him - more ignorant people that wish to remain that way.
15 posted on 10/31/2005 9:24:17 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Oh give it a rest already. Are you sinless? Have you achieved perfection? Do you need to be reminded of that continually? Do you live the perfect life, walk the perfect walk, have you arrived?

Is Christ your solution to sin, or are you your own solution? I'm still a sinner after many years, I still have many things I struggle with, and what keeps me from falling deeper, is HEARING AND KNOWING that MY Father in heaven loves me, and gave His Son for me.

So keep your stuff to yourself.

16 posted on 10/31/2005 9:29:32 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: nmh
And Osteen came out and corrected himself. Have you ever made a mistake? Thought so...

And the difference between you and Osteen? Tomorrow, Osteen will be ministering to millions, and you won't.

17 posted on 10/31/2005 9:30:28 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
You're also picking and choosing. You don't think you are, but you are. You're NEVER posting ANYTHING even remotely encouraging, or uplifting to the weary reader. Instead, you just attack churches.

So yes, you pick and choose too. You must be angry. And I've noticed that the most angry and bitter people don't like it when others are encouraging...

18 posted on 10/31/2005 9:31:59 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
So yes, you pick and choose too. You must be angry. And I've noticed that the most angry and bitter people don't like it when others are encouraging...

You would define yourself as encouraging?

BTW, MacArthur ministers to millions everyday. If that is your truth standard, then he meets it.

19 posted on 10/31/2005 9:34:39 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

The fact remains that you pick and choose. Post something encouraging, find an encouraging article, something that reminds the weary believer that he's covered in Christ. If you've ever come across such an article in your biased studies...


20 posted on 10/31/2005 9:37:33 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
The good news for you is that YOU ARE NOT PERFECT either. That's a given! Maybe you didn't know that.

My Bible tells me to make a righteous judgment.

A new verse for you since you won't hear this in your "user friendly church":

John.7:24

[24] Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Your reply to me tells me you desperately need a BIBLE friendly church and move on from this "user friendly" slop!
21 posted on 10/31/2005 9:37:56 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Funny, my Bible tells me NOT TO JUDGE AT ALL, with the exception of doctrine. And these churches are doctrinally sound.

If you don't think so, then we have a differing of opinion. But they'll all be in heaven anyway. You know the old joke about the few believers as yourself in a corner of heaven with the curtains around them, and the rest of us ask, why are they apart? And the Lord says, they don't know that the rest of you are here, and we don't want to break their delusions...

22 posted on 10/31/2005 9:39:44 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
"And Osteen came out and corrected himself. Have you ever made a mistake? Thought so..."

His "sermons" have NOT changed. Think he'll admit mistakes about them too? It's more than a "mistake". He's an apostate guy parading around as a "minister". He belongs in marketing. He's good at that but when it comes to the Bible, he hasn't got a clue.


"And the difference between you and Osteen? Tomorrow, Osteen will be ministering to millions, and you won't."

Worlds of difference between Osteen and me. I wouldn't be caught dead in his "church". Yes, he's busily mileading people to hell. Yes, "millions" are happily going there with a feel good smile on their faces. I want NOTHING to do with that.
23 posted on 10/31/2005 9:41:23 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh

mileading=MISLEADING

Have a nice day!


24 posted on 10/31/2005 9:42:32 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
They'll all be in heaven. And you'll realized that you wasted your life attacking other believers, instead of preaching to the lost yourself.

I feel sorry for you, but then again, there's a lot of others around here like you, who believe they alone hold the truth and nobody else is really a Christian. You'll see what a waste you made of your life, when you could have been reaching the lost, instead of badgering the found...

25 posted on 10/31/2005 9:43:23 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
Now you think you should be able to dictate to me what I post?

Personally I find the gospel -- all of it -- very encouraging. I also found this article extremely encouraging because it articulates the truth so eloquently. I just love it. I loved the book the article is drawn from, Ashamed of the Gospel by John MacArthur. It was highly encouraging to me.

The only other article I remember posting that was written by MacArthur was called, Sin, And What To Do About It. That clearly reminds the weary believer that he's covered in Christ. It also points the way to the non-believer.

26 posted on 10/31/2005 9:45:44 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: nmh

And thank YOU, nmh--Joel Osteen's check IS IN THE MAIL!!!


27 posted on 10/31/2005 9:46:07 AM PST by NameItClaimIt (Revolutionaries Unite)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Hey, you can post whatever you want. But don't think that you're balanced, while accusing others of picking and choosing. MacArthur isn't Jesus Christ, so I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket.


28 posted on 10/31/2005 9:46:48 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
They'll all be in heaven.

Wide is the gate that leads to where?

29 posted on 10/31/2005 9:47:12 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Oh Lord. Why do You not show Your people Your word?

The Lord said I AM THE DOOR, yes? So, the Buddhists are out, the Muslims are out, the Mormons are out, the athiests are out, and all who refuse Christ are out.

There. The way is now narrow.

But YOU take the narrow way, and make it EVEN MORE NARROW! This the Lord does not say, ever.

30 posted on 10/31/2005 9:48:42 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1

Thank you for your permission.


31 posted on 10/31/2005 9:50:29 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: gamarob1
"They'll all be in heaven. And you'll realized that you wasted your life attacking other believers, instead of preaching to the lost yourself."

LOL! Sure they will. Sigh ... it is crystal clear that you don't bother to read the Bible. If you did, you would see the err or your ways.

"I feel sorry for you, but then again, there's a lot of others around here like you, who believe they alone hold the truth and nobody else is really a Christian. You'll see what a waste you made of your life, when you could have been reaching the lost, instead of badgering the found..."

Don't "feel sorry" for me - LOL! I find the truth in the Bible. I also call high and DIRECT for guidance. He never fails me. A slew of verse come to mind to try and help you but you are spiritually discerned. I have many blessings in my life ... that is NOT a coincidence ... don't take offense but I will pray for you ... perhaps you will see the light too! Your attempt to insult me only concerns my worst fear for you ... .
32 posted on 10/31/2005 9:50:38 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Please don't pray for me. Please. I don't need it from you, and don't want it.

I'm saved and blessed.

33 posted on 10/31/2005 9:51:50 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
I didn't make it more narrow.

Jesus said: "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it" (Matt. 16:24-25).

34 posted on 10/31/2005 9:52:22 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past
Here we go again. Okay, so what does that mean in PRACTICAL, EVERYDAY TERMS? Please, define it FOR ME. Since you're presuming, yes, PRESUMING to teach me and tell me the error of my ways, tell me, for MY LIFE, how I'm supposed to do that accurately, so that I can go to heaven too

You see, anyone can spit out scriptures, but when you do, you must apply it. So do it FOR ME. Since you're presuming to "correct" me. How shall I lose my life in such a way, that I too can go to heaven? Tell me...

I'm waiting....

35 posted on 10/31/2005 9:54:45 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: nmh

You can pray for me. And I'll pray for you too. Who minds having someone pray for them?


36 posted on 10/31/2005 9:54:46 AM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. Ps. 14:34)
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To: gamarob1
Let me help you out with another verse. Someone else was trying to help you too ...

Matt.7:14

[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I'm happy to say that I have found that NARROW WAY and one of the FEW that has found it.

It's a good verse to keep in mind when you listen to an feel good apostate like Joel.
37 posted on 10/31/2005 9:55:19 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
We've all found the way, since we've found Christ, since He IS the Way.

Joel will be there too. Now I'm starting to have my doubts about you, however. Since you make salvation impossible for God, apparently...

38 posted on 10/31/2005 9:56:27 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Someone who may not be saved and wants nothing to do with God?

I appreciate the offer. Please do! I will do the same for you. Keep this other one ... in your prayers too ... . Some say it could be sooner that we think ... it reminds me of the parable ...

Matthew 13:24-30

[24] Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Many believe the harvest will be soon. Now the tares and wheat are inner mingled.


39 posted on 10/31/2005 10:00:20 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
Someone who may not be saved and wants nothing to do with God?

I wouldn't want prayer from someone who doesn't know Jesus Christ, as you. I used to do missionary work in Israel, and a Muslim came up to me and offered prayer for me, which I declined, since he doesn't know the Lord. I equate you with him...

40 posted on 10/31/2005 10:02:16 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
"Now I'm starting to have my doubts about you, however. Since you make salvation impossible for God, apparently..."

I probably shouldn't say this ... but the more you speak, the less confident I am on where you will wind up. Thankfully it is NOT my place to determines one's salvation - however what is in the heart and mind comes out through their behavior and you are extremely hostile to God's Word. You totally reject God's Word and elevate the word of an ignorant man above Him.

I strongly suggest you start reading the Bible and compare it to what these "user friendly" churches are preaching. You'll see they have NOTHING in common with the Bible. They are rejecting God ... . Be careful ... .
41 posted on 10/31/2005 10:04:39 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: gamarob1

"I wouldn't want prayer from someone who doesn't know Jesus Christ, as you. I used to do missionary work in Israel, and a Muslim came up to me and offered prayer for me, which I declined, since he doesn't know the Lord. I equate you with him..."

I see NO love in you. You are a very unpleasant person who needs Christ in their heart/mind.

You are digging yourself a hole ... and ignore the root cause of why ... rejecting God's way and Words. I stand on His Word, not the words of a foolish apostate "pastor" or whatever Joel classifies himself.


42 posted on 10/31/2005 10:07:19 AM PST by nmh (Intelligent people believe in Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: nmh
OSTEEN: I do. I do. We probably agree on 99 percent. I do. I believe there's a heaven you know. Afterwards, there's, you know, a place called hell. And I believe it's when we have a relationship with God and his son Jesus and that's what the Bible teaches us. I believe it.

NMH....I want NOTHING to do with that.

SS. Sez: to bad!

43 posted on 10/31/2005 10:07:59 AM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: nmh
I've pastored churches, in hardline denominations (where you probably come from) and in the so-called "user friendlies". Both were believers. And both had the self-appointed "prophets of doom" that weren't happy with what ANYONE taught, except for, say, one or two guys. That's cultic, and I was always forced to avoid such people and expel them from the churches. They always had a negative effect on the people, in drawing them farther from Christ, not closer.

It's good that your "work" is contained to FR. Keep it that way.

44 posted on 10/31/2005 10:08:02 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: nmh

I have no love for the sort of filth you preach, that draws people from Christ. Don't preach garbage and expect to get a loving response. You never will.


45 posted on 10/31/2005 10:09:01 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: gamarob1
2nd Corinthians 9: 8And God is able to make all grace (every favor and [c]earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [d]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].

Isn't this scripture our actual job now? When the Lord shows us grace and favor why do we need to convince unseen foes in a forum?

We can't show success over the intent LOL!

46 posted on 10/31/2005 10:10:42 AM PST by NameItClaimIt (Revolutionaries Unite)
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To: gamarob1; The Ghost of FReepers Past
Compared to them, you're pitiful.

I see the spirit of love is being abundantly shown.....

47 posted on 10/31/2005 10:10:42 AM PST by ksen ("For an omniscient and omnipotent God, there are no Plan B's" - Frumanchu)
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To: ksen
Ahh, yes, the spirit of "love" that is so evident in an article that bashes churches? Is that the spirit of "love" you're talking about?

Hypocrite. That's what you are. And, was Jesus "not loving" when He called the hypocrites, hypocrites?

You're a hypocrite like the others.

48 posted on 10/31/2005 10:12:28 AM PST by gamarob1
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To: nmh
They are rejecting God ...

No they are rejecting your mean spirit. NO joy. No Love.No Happiness. No caring. No understanding. No thoughtfulness.

49 posted on 10/31/2005 10:13:35 AM PST by sausageseller (Look out for the jackbooted spelling police. There! Everywhere!(revised cause the "man" accosted me!)
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To: NameItClaimIt

There is only one foe, and that is Satan. He has a lot of tools on FR. The battle is spiritual, not against flesh and blood.


50 posted on 10/31/2005 10:13:44 AM PST by gamarob1
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