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Hagia Sophia Restoration
Hagia Sophia blog ^ | unknown | Angeliki Papagika and partners

Posted on 10/11/2005 10:31:27 PM PDT by MarMema

If you believe in the just case that Hagia Sophia should be restored to its proper religious role as a church, for which it was built in the first place, then we ask you to support our petition to the EU Parliament that Turkey should not be admitted as a member of the European Community until it restores Hagia Sophia to its original purpose as a church and not a museum.

We need a minimum of 1.000.000 signatures in order to force the European Union to consider this proposal seriously and debate it immediately as one of the conditions to allow Turkey to be admitted as a new member of the EU.

As you know, Turkey is doing everything it can today to convince the European Union that it is a worthy country to join it. If you agree with us that Turkey should not be admitted to the EU before restoring justice to Hagia Sophia, please click on "Your Signature" and send us your message.

We would be grateful if you could also tell your friends about this site and its purpose.

Angeliki Papagika and partners

(Excerpt) Read more at hagiasophiablog.com ...


TOPICS: Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: haghiasophia; hagiasophia; orthodox
Got this in email from my Godmother...let's sign it!

Click here to sign the petition.

1 posted on 10/11/2005 10:31:28 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: Kolokotronis; FormerLib; katnip; kosta50; ezfindit; OldFriend; jb6; newberger; The_Reader_David; ...

ping


2 posted on 10/11/2005 10:33:07 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

Next year in Constantinople ping.


3 posted on 10/11/2005 10:34:32 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
related article here

"Swiss scholars want famous church returned before Turkey joins EU"

4 posted on 10/11/2005 10:53:46 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
To the Turk:

Return Hagia Sophia.

And then the rest of Constantinople.

And then Adrianople and the rest of Thrace.

And then Chalcedon, Trebizond, Smyrna, Ephesus, Antioch, and the rest of Anatolia.

And go back to Central Asia.

To the Powers of Christian Europe:

Time to do what should have been done after the Battle of Lepanto.


5 posted on 10/12/2005 12:21:11 AM PDT by John Locke
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To: MarMema

Already signed it.


6 posted on 10/12/2005 6:53:30 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: MarMema

Just one question: To whom should Hagia Sofia be returned?


7 posted on 10/12/2005 6:59:20 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: MarMema

Related thread below.

Thanks for reminding us Marmema.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1442899/posts


8 posted on 10/12/2005 7:14:44 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: ArrogantBustard

Just one question: To whom should Hagia Sofia be returned?




For now, returned to the Christian Orthodox Church. It is presently being "exploited" as a "museum" so that the Muslim Turkish parastate can get moneys from tourists. The last time I was there I was horrified by its condition.

Not only must Haghia Sophia be restored and re venerated but also thousands of other Christian churches ravaged, destroyed, defiled, etc all over Muslimhood.


9 posted on 10/12/2005 7:21:37 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
For now, returned to the Christian Orthodox Church.

Can you elaborate? Return it to the MP? Create a "Hagia Sofia Parish"? Other?

10 posted on 10/12/2005 7:33:58 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Can you elaborate? Return it to the MP? Create a "Hagia Sofia Parish"? Other?
ttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

I (or someone else) will find out the details but as for my own opinion:

Just open it and consecrate it! Allow people to hold services so that the few remaining Christians can pray in a Christian church again in the land of Muslims.


11 posted on 10/12/2005 7:52:58 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121
Just open it and consecrate it!

That's what I was afraid you'd say.

Thats a plan for chaos. Somebody must be in charge of the place ... somebody competent to manage the physical plant, collect money, pay bills, ensure security, schedule events, etc. ad nauseaum.

Amateurs worry about tactics. Professionals worry about logistics.

I'll sign when I'm assured that there's 'somebody in charge' who can handle the logistics of running the place as a Church. Until then ... I'm not thrilled with the way the Turkish government is running it, but it hasn't collapsed yet.

12 posted on 10/12/2005 7:58:08 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Kolokotronis; MarMema

The "professionals" never seem to get anything done.

They can't see the forest for the trees.

Christians were able to run "the place" for almost 1300 years. You are obviously unaware fo the history of the region.

As I said in my earlier post, I or someone else will find out more details and get back to you.


13 posted on 10/12/2005 8:08:18 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: eleni121; MarMema; Kolokotronis
Christians have been running churches large and small for 2000 years.

The ususal method is to have a pastor or bishop in charge of it, with sufficient staff of some sort to ensure the maintenance of the physical plant and the scheduling of Liturgies etc. Simply throwing open the doors and inviting one and all, willy-nilly, is a recipe for chaos. It's also NOT what Christians have been doing for the last 2000 years.

If that's all you have, I'm for leaving the Turkish guvvies in charge until the Christians come up with a plan.

14 posted on 10/12/2005 8:34:58 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Thats a plan for chaos. Somebody must be in charge of the place ... somebody competent to manage the physical plant, collect money, pay bills, ensure security, schedule events, etc. ad nauseaum.

I would like to add that churches are taxed in Turkey, another burden.

The Greek Orthodox in Turkey have 79 churches, 72 of them are in Istanbul, I am sure that they could take care of the Hagia Sophia.

15 posted on 10/12/2005 8:47:46 AM PDT by Between the Lines (Be careful how you live your life, it may be the only gospel anyone reads.)
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To: MarMema

Signed and bumped.


16 posted on 10/12/2005 11:43:27 AM PDT by katnip
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To: MarMema

Signed and bumped.


17 posted on 10/12/2005 11:43:38 AM PDT by katnip
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To: MarMema; ArrogantBustard

Signed.

It should be restored (and the minarets razed) as what it was before the Muslim invasion, an Orthodox church of whatever Orthodox management structures exist in Istambul. A church operating as a museum is a desecrated church, no matter how well the museum is maintained.


18 posted on 10/12/2005 1:05:57 PM PDT by annalex
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To: MarMema

signed.


19 posted on 10/12/2005 2:31:55 PM PDT by jb6 (The Atheist/Pagan mind, a quandary wrapped in egoism and served with a side order of self importance)
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To: ArrogantBustard
There's still a Patriarch in Constantinople. The Patriarchs ran Hagia Sophia from the time of its founding until 1453. I don't see why they could not do so again.

That said, I think the odds of the Turkish government allowing Hagia Sophia to be used for Christian worship again are even worse than the (minuscule)odds of the EU Parliament caring. A lot of the EU'ers hate Turks but their treatment of Christians does not enter into their hatred. The hatred of Turks has far more to do with the fact that they are brown-skin folks who refuse to adopt Modern European mores such as anti-racism (sarcasm off).

20 posted on 10/12/2005 2:44:20 PM PDT by Martin Tell (Red States [should act like they] Rule)
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To: MarMema
ok. signed it.

Meanwhile...

Turkey: Is there religious freedom in Turkey?

21 posted on 10/12/2005 4:49:50 PM PDT by monkfan (What consumes your thoughts controls your life)
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To: monkfan; Kolokotronis; kosta50
Ugh. We should be nicer to +Bartholomew. Look what he has to live with.

There is definitely religious freedom and more for chechen terrorists hiding in Turkey.

22 posted on 10/12/2005 4:56:20 PM PDT by MarMema
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To: MarMema
If you believe in the just case that Hagia Sophia should be restored to its proper religious role as a church, for which it was built in the first place, then we ask you to support our petition to the EU Parliament that Turkey should not be admitted as a member of the European Community until it restores Hagia Sophia to its original purpose as a church and not a museum.

Tolerant Turkey bump!

23 posted on 10/12/2005 6:00:38 PM PDT by A. Pole (Captain Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: MarMema

Signed.


24 posted on 10/12/2005 6:01:06 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Martin Tell
There's still a Patriarch in Constantinople.

Indeed there is. Has he any interest in restoring Hagia Sofia, and operating it as a Church again?

25 posted on 10/12/2005 6:05:25 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
I dunno.

Why don't you ask him?

I should think Bart would be pleased as punch.

Maybe he'd appoint you eunuch in charge or something. You seem to have a great flare for organization.

26 posted on 10/12/2005 6:27:34 PM PDT by Martin Tell (Red States [should act like they] Rule)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Indeed there is. Has he any interest in restoring Hagia Sofia, and operating it as a Church again?

I guess he has as much interest as the Pope would have in taking back the St. Peter Basilic from Muslims or Americans in retaking back the Capitol Hill.

27 posted on 10/12/2005 7:08:44 PM PDT by A. Pole (Captain Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: ArrogantBustard

Turkey must be made to apologize and grant resitution to the victims and descendants of the Christian holocausts from the early 20th century.

The Greeks, Armenian, Syriacs, etc. who were displaced or murdered by the Ottoman Turkish state.


28 posted on 10/12/2005 7:15:25 PM PDT by JohnRoss
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To: eleni121

***Just open it and consecrate it! Allow people to hold services so that the few remaining Christians can pray in a Christian church again in the land of Muslims.***

Careful now. They might want the Alhambra in Spain back for the same reason.


29 posted on 10/12/2005 8:14:15 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (When someone burns a cross on your lawn, the best firehose is an AK-47.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
Careful now. They might want the Alhambra in Spain back for the same reason.

Spain was Christian LONG before Muslim conquest. So was whole North Africa, Turkey (Asia Minor) etc ...

Spaniards were lucky or brave enough to push the invaders out.

30 posted on 10/12/2005 8:24:28 PM PDT by A. Pole (Captain Mandrake: "Condition Red, sir, yes, jolly good idea. That keeps the men on their toes.")
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To: eleni121

I, too, was surprised by its poor condition when I saw it. But you are absolutely right. If the Turks refuse to make such a concession then they show that freedom of relgion in their country is a sham.


31 posted on 10/12/2005 8:32:28 PM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: Martin Tell; MarMema
Don't be any more ridiculous than necessary ...

MarMema comes on here asking us to sign this petition ... I ask for some details about what I'm being asked to sign.

Frankly, the answers I've gotten don't fill me with confidence. I get the distinct impression that this petition is just a meaningless feel good thing, and that there isn't some individual or group ready and able to retake posession of Hagia Sofia as a Christian Church.

I completely agree with all of you that restoring it to its proper function as a place of CHRISTIAN worship is right and just ... and morally, long past due. I'm asking if practically, anybody on our (Christian) side of things is actually ready to do it.

So far, all I've seen in answer is moral platitudes, insults, and a 'plan' for utter chaos.

32 posted on 10/13/2005 6:42:38 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

You wouldn't be satisfied with a "plan of operation" if the Lord Himself came down and presided over Haghia Sophia.






33 posted on 10/13/2005 9:56:44 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: Martin Tell

I disagree with your racialist argument. It's a fear of being Islamized - and more a pragmatic opposition with economic and security concerns foremost in anti Turkey admission feelings. The Battle of Vienna in 1683 still resonates especially in Austria.


34 posted on 10/13/2005 10:07:04 AM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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