September 11, 2005 Twenty-fourth Sunday in Ordinary Time
Due to technical difficulties, there is no homily today. God bless you.
Posted on 09/10/2005 10:16:36 PM PDT by Salvation
Advice to take to heart.
Faith-sharing bump.
This reminded me of a scene in Joe Versus The Volcano where Tom Hanks is telling Meg Ryan why she shouldn't kill herself. Christian thought is the very opposite of suicidal thought.
This is one of those passages that makes me question the Idea of God as Unconditional Love. The Gospel seems to be making the point that our trespasses will be forgiven as we forgive those who trespass against us; that appears to me to be conditional.
**Christian thought is the very opposite of suicidal thought.**
Absolutely.
Or is it addressing the point that if we do not forgive -- we will pay the price??
And remember that forgiveness is a choice. Feelings don't enter into it. We still may not be too pleased with the person who may have hurt us, but God doesn't ask us to be super nice to them, rather He asks us to make a decision to forgive them.
I think, the key to understand this is to note that the servant remains forgiven, but his hardness of heart condemns him to torture in purgatory. That is because the original condemnation was to be sold, -- that is, condemnation to Hell, but upon his plea for forgiveness that condemnation is not repeated, only repayment of debt is demanded. The punishment is temporary. See my 19 that attmepts to explain this.
Purgatory entered into my thinking too, but I didn't have a chance to ask our priest this morning. He used one of the two Reconciliation Eucharistic prayers -- and I stopped to tell him how beautiful I thought the Preface was.
We then got to talking about a situation I had been in, asked for forgiveness and still don't know what I did wrong (or to offend the party).
So, obviously, I forgot to ask about the Purgatory theme that I picked up on. However, in his homily, our priest said that the last sentence is the "meat and meaning" of the entire parable!
September 11, 2005 Twenty-fourth Sunday in Ordinary Time
Due to technical difficulties, there is no homily today. God bless you.
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Sunday, September 11, 2005 Meditation Sirach 27:30–28:7 Anger and wrath, these also are abominations, yet a sinner holds on to them. (Sirach 27:30) Oh Lord, I know it isn’t right to hold onto anger. But I have been hurt! Someone has hurt me or my family or my country. They may not even be sorry for what they did. How can I let go of the anger? And yet, I don’t want to “hug tight” the wrath that wells up in my heart. What can I do? The vengeful will suffer the Lord’s vengeance, for he remembers their sins in detail. (Sirach 28:1) How can I hold anything against someone else—I who have been forgiven so much? Every day it seems I must come to you for grace, mercy, and strength, Lord. Help me to see that without your grace, I am capable of inflicting just as much pain as those who have hurt me. I, too, am a sinner. Forgive your neighbor’s injustice; then when you pray, your own sins will be forgiven. (Sirach 28:2) Just as you taught in the Lord’s Prayer, the key is forgiveness. If my brother does not ask me, I can at least have my own heart ready to offer the forgiveness. By keeping my heart hardened against him, I am blocking the grace you want to pour out in his life as well as in my life. It is so hard, Lord, but I ask you to help me to be ready to forgive. The Lord. . . .is slow to anger and rich in compassion. (Psalm 103:8) Make me like you, Lord. I still don’t feel very “rich in compassion.” In fact, there are times when all I can think about is vengeance. Slow down my anger, Lord. I want to live in your peace and joy, freed from the shackles of resentment. “Lord, only you can fill me with the virtues that I lack. And so I come to you and bow down. I beg you to help me to be patient. Help me to be humble and not to condemn those who have sinned against me. Help me to be willing to forgive, seventy times seven times, if necessary!” Psalm 103:1-4,9-12; Romans 14:7-9;Matthew 18:21-35 |
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Please ask whe you have a chance. I never heard an authoritative teaching on this and offer nothing better than my opinion. Having argued for ages that the Protestant method of freelance interpretation is a deep offense, I do not venture into Do It yourself theology often.
But I think my view suggests itself scripturally: the servant remains saved; the punishment refers to purgatory and not Hell; the commandment is there to do works of charity/forgiveness, not so that we are saved in the end, but so that we please the Lord. Nothing here supports the view that salvation is guaranteed through a profession of faith as we see the servant put his salvation in jeopardy following the profession.
ZENIT - The World Seen From Rome
Code: ZE05091122
Date: 2005-09-11
Homily of Archbishop John Foley on 9/11 Anniversary
"Whether We Live or Die, We Are the Lord's"
ROME, SEPT. 11, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Here is the homily delivered by American Archbishop John Foley, president of the Pontifical Council for Social Communications, at the Church of Santa Susanna in Rome, on the fourth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks in the United States.
* * *
My brothers and sisters in Christ:
First of all, I know that all of you join me in expressing a special welcome today to the new ambassador of the United States of America to Italy, Ronald Spogli, who honors us with his presence today, together with his wife and daughter. In the absence of Senate confirmation of the proposed new ambassador of the United States to the Holy See, we also welcome the newly arrived Chargé d'Affaires at the American Embassy to the Holy See, Mr. Christopher Sandrolini.
Welcome, Mr. Ambassador and Mr. Counselor, and we will also pray this morning for the fruitfulness of your diplomatic mission for our great country. God bless America!
9/11 -- hearing those numbers still causes us pain. We can still see the planes, mobile incendiary bombs, flying into the World Trade Center towers; we can still see the bodies of many in the towers who hurled themselves into the void to flee incineration; we can still see those two great towers, symbols of the economic power of the United States, collapsing in on themselves like houses of cards.
9/11 -- they are the numbers which have changed our lives, because trust and openness have vanished as travel has become a series of obstacles to be overcome -- not an experience to be pleasantly anticipated.
9/11 -- hearing those numbers makes us think of heroism. Those numbers had symbolized and still symbolize our last resort -- the number Americans call in an emergency. Those numbers for us now symbolize heroic fire fighters and police men and women who sought to save lives and to bring order out of chaos. They are not the men and women who made six- and seven-figure salaries and who had perhaps not yet arrived in their luxurious offices in the World Trade Center; they are the men and women who perhaps cannot ever be paid enough for the risks they take, for the dedication they show, for the sacrifices they made that day and on many others.
Even everyday life has become increasingly unpredictable, as the train bombings in Madrid and the underground bombings in London have made clear.
Now, just two weeks ago, a natural disaster -- Hurricane Katrina -- wiped out much of the Gulf Coast of the United States. We do not know how many have died, but we do know that there are hundreds of thousands of refugees, persons displaced by one of the most powerful hurricanes ever to strike the United States.
Not only will we be praying today for all those victims, both living and dead, but your pastor, Father Greg Apparcel, has informed me that there will be a special collection at the post-Communion of today's Mass, the proceeds of which will be sent to Catholic Charities USA for the relief of the victims of Hurricane Katrina.
Now, I ask you to meditate on the words of the second reading of today's Mass: "None of us lives for himself; none of us dies for himself. For if we live, we live for the Lord and, if we die, we die for the Lord; so then, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."
No matter what tragedy may befall, we are the Lord's. He is present to us at every moment of our lives. He it is who will receive us when we die. We are the Lord's.
We have seen how a handful of terrorists have changed the course of history and have changed literally millions of lives; we have seen how one natural disaster has paralyzed an entire section of the mightiest nation on earth.
How many people put their trust in money and in possessions -- and we see how soon it can all be lost! How many people put their trust in power -- and we see how soon we find ourselves powerless in the hands of a few fanatics or in the face of a force of nature.
Yes, we are autonomous, but we are not self-sufficient. We are dependent every moment of our lives upon the Lord and it is he to whom we must be ready to render an account of our lives.
We are called upon to live our lives always in that delicate balance between personal responsibility and effort and the realization that we depend totally and utterly upon God, our creator and redeemer.
On this day, we pray that the hearts of those who wish us evil may be converted -- and we hope to have the power and the will to forgive them.
On this day, we remember the survivors, those who still suffer the effects of 9/11 and other terrorist acts and those who are refugees from Katrina.
On this day, we remember the victims -- the thousands who died in the attack on the twin towers and the Pentagon and the attempted attack on another target which finished in a plane crash in a field in Pennsylvania; we remember their victims of terrorism in other nations -- and we remember the as yet unnumbered thousands who have perished in the terrible destruction along the Gulf Coast. May they rest in God's peace!
On this day, we pray for ourselves, that we may have the strength to bear whatever may happen to us, remembering that we are God's, and we pray that we may have the will and strength to help those who cry out to us in their need -- not only for assistance, but for a sense of meaning and purpose.
"Whether we live or die, we are the Lord's."
This may sound like our limitation; it is in reality our strength.
We need to steer clear of two errors as we reflect on this parable. First, -- as a Protestant would be quick to notice -- this is an example of a sinner whose forgiveness is not withdrawn because of the new sin. This is in line with the context of the parable, that proclaims infinite forgiveness. It also shows the logical inevitability of purgatory as a mechanism of justice among the saved (here we lose our Protestant audience). Secondly, we should not read this parable as if it supported the "once saved, always saved" heresy. This parable is silent on it. Other parables, notably, the Guests at the Wedding show condemnation for improper behavior; two times in the Gospel of Matthew Christ says, "many are called but few are chosen".
As we look at these two parables together, the Guests at the Wedding and this one, we might draw a conclusion that a failure of charity -- failure to forgive a debt -- is treated less harshly than a failure of reverence -- failure to wear a nuptual dress at the wedding. This conclusion would disconcert one used to think that the liturgical form and the rutual are inimportant. But consider this: infinite charity is impossible for a human. The servant was truly owed money and had a family; the parable does not say if repayment to the servant was a matter of the servant family's survival. There is a level of charity -- forgiveness of debt truly owed -- when one's own family is thereby put to jeopardy, and the failure of further charity is no longer a sin. Therefore, the servant's sin of uncharitableness is a matter of degree; the consequence of that sin can be worked off in Purgatory.
In contrast to that, the irreverent attitude, symbolized by the improper dress, is entirely the sinner's doing; his free, unencumbered by any economic pressure, choice is to offend the Bridegroom. He then is cast into Hell by his own choice, as there is nothing in him that upon purification would be made good.
We are called to perpetual conversion. If we fail to truly convert in our day, Christ will decide where we go. This parable teaches that the Father's forgiveness is infinite. But no one but few saints has undergone a complete conversion in an instance.
Lu[ke] 8:18
My Bible says "Take heed therefore how you hear [the word]. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and whosoever hath not, that also which he thinketh he hath shall be taken away from him. ". I checked King James, same thing. Where did you get the "forgive their brother’s trespasses" part?
At any rate, the commandment to forgive the trespasses is very real, and is one more instance of charitable work commanded us.
He was condemned to perpetual imprisonment.
He was not "sold" with his family, which would have indicated perpetuity. The Gospel clearly says "until he paid all the debt". I would avoid arithmetical computations in the context where 490 is used as infinity.
Right?
A Catholic would prefer this terminology.
Salvation of mankind occurred once at Calvary. This is salvation God desires for all but not all will be justified in the end. Justification is an ongoing process. It ordinarily begins at baptism, which is the moment of rebirth. It continues till death. Sacramentally, justification is punctuated by reception of Eucharist and Penance. The Eucharist includes a proclamation of faith as a Christian places himself at the foot of the Cross. Work of charity, prompted by grace and effected by free will is necessary to sustain the faith and remain in the state of saving grace. This life-long process of faith sustained through sacraments and work is called, for brevity, conversion.
which translation do you favor?
I favor Douay-Rheims
punitive, not purgatorial
The theme of the enormity of the debt owed to the Lord is there. But nevertheless, the punishment is finite, as the verse 34 indicates in contrast to 25, and therefore purgatorial.
*** A Catholic would prefer this terminology... Justification is an ongoing process***
That is unscriptural. Justification is seen in the epistles as a past tense, completed action when refering to believers...
Romans 3:24
and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:28
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:9
Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Romans 10:10
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
1 Corinthians 6:11
And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
annalex - don't overlook these passages, even if they conflict with your theology. They clearly protray Justification as a past completed action.
***This life-long process of faith sustained through sacraments and work is called, for brevity, conversion.***
How about a "life begun by supernatural spiritual rebirth, characterized by faith, sustained by grace and evidenced by good works".
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