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Harry Potter: Agent of Conversion

Harry Potter and The Lost Generations; Former New Ager Explains Potter Danger.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one's service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another's credulity.

2138 Superstition is a departure from the worship that we give to the true God. It is manifested in idolatry, as well as in various forms of divination and magic.

Deuteronomy Chapter 18: 9-14

9 "When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, 11 or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you. 13 You shall be blameless before the Lord your God. 14 For these nations which you will dispossess listened to soothsayers and diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not appointed such for you.

1 posted on 03/10/2005 9:55:32 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Coleus

I'm stuned. This is Hugh. I'm series.

Now that the Potter books have outsold the Bible, we're doomed.

/sarcasm


2 posted on 03/10/2005 9:59:25 PM PST by peyton randolph (Warning! It is illegal to fatwah a camel in all 50 states)
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To: Coleus
O'Brien writes children's books. Every Harry Potter book sold is one less dollar that would go to him.

Of course, his books wouldn't sell as well if Harry Potter weren't around, but I taste some sour grapes in O'Brien's lament.

3 posted on 03/10/2005 10:03:12 PM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: Coleus
Relax, it's fiction.

Were these folks just as upset about the "The Force" in Star Wars? How about LOTR?

Kids can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and to them the HP books are just good fun. ....and kids like to have fun.

4 posted on 03/10/2005 10:06:42 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: Coleus

At the risk of sounding like a jerk I have to say this:

Harry Potter "discovering he's a wizard" doesn't make me think I can be a wizard (or want to) any more than reading the Bible would make me think I'm the Messiah.

HP just a story, the Bible is not. Those who read the Bible and don't just quote it know this.

Read it. Read King Arthur tales as well. And read up on mythologies of the ancient world. They are fascinating STORIES. None of them make me think I am the physical son of any deity.

That being said, God bless. I hope you learn to enjoy some creative works.


5 posted on 03/10/2005 10:07:59 PM PST by MacDorcha (When I say "democratic" I don't mean "Athenian Mob Rule")
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To: Coleus
Witches, wizards and magic oh my!

I guess he equally deplores the un-Christian, magic-laden, "good witch" harboring, gender-changing (Ozma), supernatural creature ridden Wizard of Oz? Oh he doesn't? All distinctions are without difference in comparing HP and Oz. HP is inveighed against, Oz is venerated.

Only real difference is that we've had Oz for over a century, and are used to it.

6 posted on 03/10/2005 10:09:29 PM PST by Plutarch
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To: Coleus

Twelve Practices God Forbids....

1. Necromancy: Communication with the dead, conjuration of the spirits of the dead, for the purpose of revealing the future or influencing the course of events. Deut 18:11; I Sam 28:1-25; Isa 8:19; I Chron 10:13-14

2. Enchantments: The act of influencing by charms and incantations; the practice of magical arts; use of human voice or music to bring another under psychic control. Lev 19:26; Deut 18:10-12; II Chron 33:6; II Kings 17:17; Isa 47:8-11; Jer 27:8; Dan 1:20

3. Witchcraft: Dealing with evil spirits. Deut 18:10-12; II Chron 33:6; I Sam 15:23; Gal 5:19-21

4. Sorcery: Use of power gained from assistance or control of evil spirits, especially for divining. Jer 27:9; Isa 47:9; Rev 21:8

5. Divination: Fortune-telling. Deut 18:10-14; II Kings 17:17; Jer 27:8-9, 29:8-9; Acts 16:16-24

6. Wizardry: Magic, sorcery. Deut 18:11; II Kings 17:17; Exo 22:18

7. Charm: A spell; to affect by magic. Deut 18:11; Isa 19:3

8. Star Gazing/Astrology: Divination of the supposed influence of the stars upon human affairs and terrestrial events by their position and aspects. Isa 47:12-15; Jer 10:2; Dan 1:18-20, 2:1-49, 4:1-37; 5:7-15

9. Soothsaying: Foretelling events; prophesying by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit. Josh 13:22; Micah 5:12-15; Acts 16:16-18

10. Prognostication: To foretell from signs or symptoms; prophesying without the Holy Spirit; soothsaying. Isa 47:12-15; Josh 13:22; Micah 5:12-15; Acts 16:16-18

11. Observing Times: Astrology. Lev 19:26; Deut 18:10-14; II Kings 21:6; II Chron 33:6

12. Magic: Witchcraft. Deut 18:10-12; II Chron 33:6, I Sam 15:23

<><


7 posted on 03/10/2005 10:27:48 PM PST by viaveritasvita (The Grace of God has appeared, bringing Salvation to all men. Titus 2:11)
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To: Coleus

Good article. I'm a fan of Potter, and with 12 yrs experience in Dragons [the game]. Also a fan of Lewis.

The article raises interesting points, many I've seen before. Complaints from readers will be prejudiced by a society that readily accepts occult themes in its entertainment.


8 posted on 03/10/2005 11:27:02 PM PST by Fenris6 (3 Purple Hearts in 4 months w/o missing a day of work? He's either John Rambo or a Fraud)
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To: HairOfTheDog; JenB; RosieCotton; SuziQ
Harry Potter and the Tale of the Hysterical FReepers ping...
10 posted on 03/11/2005 6:19:12 AM PST by Corin Stormhands (One Iraqi purple finger took more courage than John Kerry's three purple hearts.)
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To: Coleus

Hmmm. I'm printing this out and will read it during Clare's writing class.


12 posted on 03/11/2005 6:37:18 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: Coleus

Publisher & Date:
Ignatius Press, April 2001


13 posted on 03/11/2005 6:44:05 AM PST by sharktrager (The masses will trade liberty for a more quiet life.)
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To: Coleus
Throughout the Chronicles, witches are portrayed in classic terms, as malevolent, manipulative, deceiving, and destructive —

It's an awfully long article, but I scimmed down to find reference to Narnia. I want to see how people seperate "good" books from "bad" books. Is it only the 'witch' character that matters? Or wtchcraft in general? Magic is used throughout the Narnia chronicles by both the good and bad characters. As an adult, I didn't make the distinction between who was labeled a witch and who wasn't. I don't think kids do either. They see a book as either 'having' magic in it out not, much like science fiction.

14 posted on 03/11/2005 6:48:26 AM PST by eccentric (a.k.a. baldwidow)
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To: Coleus

Is the Wiz next?


16 posted on 03/11/2005 6:56:21 AM PST by js1138
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To: Coleus
Much better than most 'Potter = evil' screeds, but still wrong-headed.

In these details and a plethora of others throughout the series, the child reader is encouraged in his baser instincts while lip service is paid to morality. In fact, nowhere in the series is there any reference to a system of moral absolutes against which actions can be measured.

"A system of moral absolutes"? Well, no, not in the sense that the characters discuss religious principles or debate the basis of objective morality. So? They don't do that in Nancy Drew novels, either, but that hardly makes them diabolical. The Berenstain Bears books seem rather lacking in theological import, too, now that I think about it.

I just got done re-reading Goblet of Fire (Harry Potter book IV), and at the end Dumbledore is speaking to the school; he encourages them, whenever they are torn between what is easy and what is right, to remember the sacrifice of their fallen fellow student. That's good enough, IMO, for a fantasy book that makes no claims of religious significance.

20 posted on 03/11/2005 7:39:52 AM PST by Sloth (I don't post a lot of the threads you read; I make a lot of the threads you read better.)
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To: Coleus

GASP! BETWEEN! GASP! THIS! GASP! AND! GASP! SPONGEBOB! GASP! BEING! GASP! GAY! GASP! OUR! GASP! CHILDREN! GASP! DON'T! GASP! STAND! GASP! A! GASP! CHANCE! GASP!

GASP! BURN! GASP! THE! GASP! TV! GASP! AND! GASP! KEEP! GASP! YOUR! GASP! CHILDREN! GASP! INSIDED! GASP! AT! GASP! ALL! GASP! TIMES! GASP!


26 posted on 03/11/2005 8:11:16 AM PST by I Gig Gar (Hey DUhhh. BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA!!)
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To: Coleus

Could you please post the entire article? I don't like reading these little excerpts.


27 posted on 03/11/2005 8:13:46 AM PST by GSWarrior
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To: tiredoflaundry; HungarianGypsy; JenB; Grendel9; dead; TwoWolves; js1138; MineralMan; ...
Harry Potter is the devil Ping!

Please let me know if you would like on or off the Harry Potter ping list. This is a very low volume list.

34 posted on 03/11/2005 8:37:28 AM PST by retrokitten (I heart Tony Snow)
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To: Coleus
Mr. O'Brien sure spent a long time getting his knickers all twisty over Harry Potter.

It's not worth trying to refute this crap -- I will merely point out that the devil is extremely happy to be found wherever we care to look for him. And that includes within the pages of a Harry Potter book.

As it happens, these books have an excellent message that has a whole lot in common Christian practice and theology. And, if one really feel like predicting what happens next, I would suggest that one take a look at the Book of Revelations.....

41 posted on 03/11/2005 8:48:18 AM PST by r9etb
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To: Coleus

Wow a 4 year-old article. Good thing you didn't put this in breaking news. Sure is wordy and dull too. And, like so many of these articles wrong. Can't even get basics facts correct. Mandrake roots aren't baby's, they look like babys but they're plants; mandrake roots have a long tradition in both fable and fantasy of having all kinds of interesting magical powers largely because they do look so disturbingly like people. Find me an article on this where the author doesn't feel the need to outright lie about stuff in HP and then you'll find an author that's worth reading. Of course anybody that doesn't lie about HP won't think it's "luring" to the occult, because it's not, the only way to draw that conclusion is with misrespresentation and misinterpretation, most are probably accidental but some a suredly deliberate.


43 posted on 03/11/2005 8:59:28 AM PST by discostu (quis custodiet ipsos custodes)
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To: Coleus
[yackety-yak, blah-blah, blah-blah deleted]

That's nice. Next!

TS

48 posted on 03/11/2005 9:14:48 AM PST by Tanniker Smith (Anyone going to Lunacon, March 18-20, 2005 in NJ?)
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To: Coleus

Buffy is paganizing a lot more people, but I still love the series.


50 posted on 03/11/2005 9:17:52 AM PST by biblewonk (Neither was the man created for woman but the woman for the man.)
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To: Coleus

So, you're just posting this 2001 essay now? What the heck?

The Harry Potter series of books is FICTION. I repeat: FICTION.


53 posted on 03/11/2005 9:29:16 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Coleus

Ridiculous, all of it. I don't deny that evil can be attractive to us, but if you use that as a yardstick on everything in the world, you're bound to see evil where none abides.

This is children's literature. As an avid reader myself, I am pleased to see something out there that gets the video game controllers replaced in children's hands with a series of good books. IMHO, I see nothing evil or subversive about them...I think they're simply a good yarn that kids and adults alike enjoy. This is just so much hysteria. There are other things to worry about when it comes to being a corrupting influence on our kids. The Harry Potter series isn't one of them.


57 posted on 03/11/2005 9:36:45 AM PST by exnavychick
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FORMER OCCULTIST IS CONVERTED BY MARY AND WARNS ON NEW AGE IN THE U.S. CHURCH

Infiltration of the New Age into the Church is usually subtle. There is the attempt to introduce a feminine aspect of God (paving the way for a goddess), an inclination to acknowledge ecological spirits (which makes way for worship of sun, moon, stars), or a tendency to view the Lord not as a Person but as a neutral cosmic force. There is also the noticeable and curious attempt to avoid mention of the devil.

Don't worry about anything, is the credo of the New Age; there is no sin; there is only Heaven; there is no hell.

Sometimes, the attempts are not so subtle. A while ago we posted a prayer to nature spirits that appeared inside a diocesan website in California. Fortunately, it was immediately removed (and probably got there in the first place without the bishop's knowledge).

But problems persist, and they are strikingly, fascinatingly pointed out in a highly readable book by Moira Noonan -- a California woman who spent twenty years with the New Age in many different roles, including direct involvement with psychics, hypnotherapy, reincarnation, Reiki, channeling, crystals, clairvoyance, and other occult practices. In fact, she herself was once an occult instructor, a psychic, and a hypnotist before becoming a Catholic evangelist -- her mission exposing precisely what she once practiced!

The book is Ransomed from Darkness, and in it we first learn that while raised a Catholic, Moira, like so many others, was never properly instructed in the dangers of the occult. "In Deuteronomy and elsewhere, God makes it very clear: Stay away from mediumship, sorcery, and fortune-telling of all kinds," she writes. "The Bible makes it clear, over and over: Don't go to these kinds of places. That was a message I never received."

It is something that has afflicted countless Catholics: a lack of instruction about the occult.

As a result, Noonan traversed deeply into this dark territory, and when she came back to the Church -- when she reverted to the faith of her childhood -- she couldn't believe what she saw:

"In the process of rediscovering my Catholic faith after a 25-year absence, I was often shocked to see how the Church had fallen prey to New Age influences I thought I was leaving behind," says Noonan. "That's one of the reasons for this book: I want to help Christians, especially clergy, recognize how New Age thinking has infiltrated the Church. It's an ultimately destructive presence that needs to be addressed whenever it appears."

Usually it starts with a church group that embraces Eastern-style meditation, or something like hypnosis or the enneagram -- which seem harmless, even beneficial, on the surface. But in reality, such techniques can be Trojan horses for the wrong kind of spirits. "For example, much of the miracle merchandise sold in Catholic stores now -- angel stones, affirmation books and so forth -- are designed to change our way of thinking," the author warns.

Noonan relates the time she attended a conference at Xavier University in Ohio and found that the student bookstore featured vampire books, astrology titles, goddess manuals, and even The Dictionary of Satan.

"In my own parish, I learned that the Friday night program for divorced, single, and separated Catholics was using A Course in Miracles as one of their textbooks," she reports, alluding to an occult bestseller that has ensnared countless Christians. "I've had priests from all over the country contact me to inquire about the Course. Make no mistake. This book is the dictated pronouncements of a demon, transcribed by a Columbia University psychologist in the 1960s and 1970s."

Noonan points out that New Age infiltration is particularly prevalent at Christian retreat centers. One in northern California hosted a workshop with a former nun who had made a pilgrimage to India and was now presenting the ideas of the "Nine Gates Mystery School," a teaching on "Earth-based" spirituality. "The course focused on 'medicine cards,'" says Noonan. "These are tarot cards, divination tools. They are a form of shamanism."

In San Diego itself -- where Noonan ministers -- a Catholic center for spiritual direction offers courses in telepathy.

In Arizona a convent retreat center offers "contemplative prayer" taught by a monk who is not Christian.

"I'm aware of a convent in Minnesota, and there are others in California and Massachusetts also, where nuns offer Reiki healing workshops," says Moria -- whose own daughter went to a New Age pre-school. "I was trained as a Master Teacher in Reiki, which means I was authorized to perform initiations as well as teach methods. Reiki is definitely an occult practice."

In this time of disorientation, we are called, yes, to respect other religions, and to love everyone, to dialogue with others and realize that God is bigger than any single religion. At the same time, there are instances when love has to take the form of correcting those who may be endangering themselves by wandering back to the paganism that Christ came to defeat. Especially, our bishops need to be aware. In California, near San Francisco, a prominent witch has instructed dozens of priests at the behest of a cleric who has now been defrocked.

Fortunately for Noonan, the Blessed Mother intervened during a visit to Medjugorje, where Moira was "delivered" Magdalene-style from a series of evil spirits. Her conversion was also connected to an instance where she was involved in a table-tilting seance.

Suddenly Moira felt drawn back from participating. And as this occurred, she heard a voice. It was an exquisitely gentle but powerful voice, and it pulled Noonan from the dark. The words were simple. "I am the Queen of Peace," the voice said, and Noonan never turned back.

She had asked the Lord, "Could you please show me the truth?"

"My prayer was to be answered," she writes, "as Mary patiently guided me back to the garden of faith."

[report any New Age involvement in your own parish by clicking here]

[see also: Goddess religion?] [resources: Ransomed From Darkness and other spiritual-warfare books]

[print this and send it to your pastor and bishop]    E-mail this link directly

Return to home page

86 posted on 03/11/2005 10:43:22 AM PST by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Coleus

Hmmm. Mary Poppins, a witch, good. Harry Potter, a witch, bad. Go figure.


89 posted on 03/11/2005 10:48:56 AM PST by Professional Engineer (I believe in diversity, so I practice ethnic engineering.)
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To: Coleus

I am in agreement with this thread. Now watch the "adults" have a hissy fit over it. There is nothing good about Harry Potter. Something is VERY wrong if this trash is what gets kids to read.


121 posted on 03/11/2005 1:36:29 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Coleus

Wow.

So I guess a story can't just be a story anymore, eh?

Can't wait for the next book to come out!


154 posted on 03/14/2005 4:59:39 PM PST by StoneColdGOP (What does Marsellus Wallace look like?)
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To: Coleus

Highly interesting article. I didn't manage to read all of it tonight; bookmarked it.

I read the first two Harry Potter books since I have plans in mind of possibly writing some childrens' books.

I was disgusted and shocked. Also very shallow, and the writing is poor. Two dimensional, like comic books.


159 posted on 04/11/2005 12:41:36 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: 2Jedismom; 300winmag; Alkhin; Alouette; ambrose; Anitius Severinus Boethius; artios; AUsome Joy; ...

<excerpt>

In his great fantasy epic, The Lord of the Rings, Tolkien also portrays magic as deception. Supernatural powers that do not rightly belong to man are repeatedly shown as having a corrupting influence on man. While it is true that Gandalf, one of the central characters, is called a "wizard" throughout, he is not in fact a classical sorcerer. Tolkien maintains (as shown in Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Humphrey Carpenter and Christopher Tolkien) that Gandalf is rather a kind of moral guardian, similar to guardian angels but more incarnate. As Tolkien explains, his "good magic" is not in fact what we think of as magic in the real world. Gandalf's task is primarily to advise, instruct, and arouse to resistance the minds and hearts of those threatened by Sauron, the Dark Lord of this saga. Gandalf does not do the work for them; they must use their natural gifts. In this process we see an image of grace building on nature, never overwhelming nature or replacing it. Gandalf's gifts are used sparingly, and then only so far as they assist the other creatures in the exercise of their free will and their moral choices.

The central character of the Lord of the Rings, Frodo Baggins, is asked by Gandalf to bear a ring of magical power to a volcanic mountain in a region ruled by Sauron, in order to destroy the ring in the volcano's fires and thus weaken the grip that Sauron has over the world. Frodo agrees to undertake the journey but soon realizes that the ring has a seductive hold on him. As he carries the very thing that could ruin the world, he is constantly tempted to use it for the good. But he learns that to use its supernatural powers for such short-range "goods" increases the probability of long-range disaster, both for the world and for himself.

Supernatural powers, Tolkien demonstrates repeatedly, are very much a domain infested by the "deceits of the Enemy," used for domination of other creatures' free will. As such they are metaphors of sin and spiritual bondage. By contrast, Gandalf's very limited use of preternatural powers is never meant to overwhelm, deceive, or defile. Even so, the author mentions more than once in the epic that these powers must pass away from the world as the "Old Age" ends and the "Age of Man" (and by inference the Age of the Incarnation) approaches.

Much of the neopagan use of magic is the converse of this approach. It is frequently used to overwhelm, deceive, and defile. In the Harry Potter series, for example, Harry resists and eventually overcomes Voldemort with the very powers the Dark Lord himself uses. Harry is the reverse image of Frodo. Rowling portrays his victory over evil as the fruit of esoteric knowledge and power. This is Gnosticism. Tolkien portrays Frodo's victory over evil as the fruit of humility, obedience, and courage in a state of radical suffering. This is Christianity. Harry's world is about pride, Frodo's about sacrificial love.

</excerpt>


Ring Ping!!

The Hobbit Hole :: Troop Support Projects

Anyone wishing to be added to or removed from the Ring-Ping list, please don't hesitate to let me know.

161 posted on 04/12/2005 7:23:17 PM PDT by ecurbh (All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.)
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To: Coleus

Excellent article and accurate on all points. Without doubt the enemy of God is assaulting our children with an onslaught of his worldview through instruction in, and invitations to join, the occult, which is the religion of worshipping of him, doing his will, and using his power.

The only recourse is to stand firm in the faith and to know, teach and proclaim the truth, which is the Word of God, and to press on in fighting the good fight of faith, and to wear the armor of God.

Fight the good fight of faith 1Tim6:12

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood but against te rulers against the powers against the world forces of this darkness against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.


Therefore take up the full armor of God that you may be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything to stand firm.

Stand firm therefore, having girded your loins with truth(from God's Word)

having put on the breastplate of righteousness (Christ's)

having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace(Jesus is the true God and savior)

in addition to all taling up the shield of faith(our faith protects) with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming missles of the evil one

and take(receive) the helmet of salvation(a gift from God throughh faith)

and (take) the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God (the one offensive weapon for the good fight!)

Eph6:10-17


177 posted on 04/13/2005 10:19:57 AM PDT by Gal.5:1 (keep standing firm)
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To: Coleus

Congratulations to you for posting this. You have admirable courage and foresight.

The proliferation of Harry Potter books in our local "Catholic" parishes was the last straw for me. After giving the DREs and even the pastors ample chance to pull this putrid trash out of the hands of our impressionable children, their refusal to do the same made me vote with my feet. I pulled my children out of their schools, instead.

Anyone who would call himself Christian must therefore abhor the scandalization of these little children with such books. For it would be "better for them" to deep-sea dive wearing a millstone necktie. Makes one wonder: what "more" will be God's punishment for their crime?


179 posted on 04/14/2005 8:37:26 AM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae, Amen.)
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To: Coleus

What about Star wars?
The force good and evil, mind reading, telekinesis...
Sounds pretty evil.
All that did was create a generation of geeks that could program computers.


183 posted on 04/14/2005 8:50:08 AM PDT by NormB (Yes, but watch your cookies!!)
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To: Coleus

JK Rowling turned me into a NEWT!


195 posted on 04/14/2005 10:01:56 AM PDT by NormB (Yes, but watch your cookies!!)
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To: Coleus
Bump for later read.

Harry Potter is not permitted in our house.

I don't find witchcraft amusing.

Meanwhile taking antidepressants are on the rise as we continue to fill the void with "entertainment" and witchcraft books. Too bad they won't turn to Christ.
210 posted on 04/14/2005 10:46:43 AM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Coleus

It is late, and I did not read the entire article posted; nor any responses.

Last year I got into a discussion with a Catholic friend regarding the Harry Potter series.

My friend held firm that this series is evil, she could not; nor would not understand that it is a work of fiction; it is fantasy.

What amazes me to this day is the Catholic Church tries to stifle the minds and imagination of their followers.


249 posted on 04/15/2005 9:03:09 PM PDT by TheMom (Govern yourself accordingly.)
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To: Coleus

Coleus, you are RIGHT and thank you for posting this.

Some prefer to be blind. Then again ... the times we live in suggest this will happen.

We don't allow Harry Potter in our house. We have better reading material than that pagan trash.


261 posted on 05/22/2005 6:22:26 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: Coleus
A recent search of the Internet for Harry Potter references yielded more than 500,000 "hits". Selective searches turned up more than 100 high-profile web sites devoted to the series, many of which offer links to advanced occult web sites under titles such as "Learn More about the Secrets of the Occult" and "How to Become a Witch." In an interview with Newsweek, a spokesman for the Pagan Federation in England reported that he receives an average of 100 inquiries a month from young people who want to become witches — an unprecedented phenomenon which he attributes in part to the Potter books.

Not surprisingly.

This essay is a superb and prophetic analysis of the Harry Potter phenomenon.

264 posted on 05/23/2005 5:55:12 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Coleus
I just got around to reading this for the first time. It is brilliant. Mr. O'Brien articulates the general thoughts and the uneasy feelings I've had about the Harry Potter phenomenon from the beginning.

I hope more parents, teachers and clergy have a chance to hear Mr. O'Brien's well presented perspective.

266 posted on 06/05/2005 8:13:07 PM PDT by Barnacle (A human shield against the onslaught of Leftist tripe.)
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To: Coleus

Sorry, I have to disagree on this one. Magic and wishing are a natural part of growing up (as are vivid dreams and nightmares). At least kids are being inspired to experience the mysterious and awe-inspiring. (Contrast that to the "keeping it real" sex & violence on TV).

How many Hardy Boys, Alfred Hitchcock, and Poe stories did I read as a kid? Plenty. This is the same thing only different.

As kids go through their developmental stages, they learn a more refined and proper understanding of the true source for such awe and mystery. It's all part of that age-old concept called "growing up".

Of course, that presupposes they are getting other religious education besides these books. These Harry Potter books at least have kids reading. I've seen many a kid go on to read the "Narnia" series, for example.


267 posted on 06/08/2005 5:24:41 AM PDT by P.O.E.
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To: Coleus
Okay. Here I go putting my foot in this pasture pie.

I hold no brief for Harry Potter in any way (I've never read any of the books and don't intend to) and I recoginze the very real dangers the occult/pagan elements of modern culture, but I must protest that exempting Tolkien and Lewis from criticism merely because they are famous rightwing liturgical chr*stians is completely unfair. Both Middle Earth and Narnia are full of magical beings of various sorts as well as magical humans, and Lewis fills certain parts of the Narnia books with classical pagan deities and demigods (such as b@cchus). Classical Greco-Roman paganism tends to get a pass because it preceded chr*stianity as the foundation of Western Civlilzation.

Another unfortunate fact is that Lewis was a Theistic evolutionist who in the preface to The Screwtape Letters stated that he would drop his belief in angels if "science" were to disprove them (in which case they would just be assumptions of the Biblical milieu), and Tolkien was a contributor the the blasphemously higher-critical "Jerusalem Bible." And The Silmarilion gives a complete pagan mythology and creation narrative for Middle Earth, but does anyone object? Of course not. Fantasists who are known to have been rightwing chr*stians can do no wrong. Shoot, they can even love nature, which no contemporary conservative can get away with. (BTW, I took the "see which Tolkien creature you'd be" test. I'm an Ent. I knew I would be!)

Tolkien's wizards weren't really wizards? Please! And magic is always bad? What about the "good magic" of elves such beings? I've never seen such word games!

Again, I'm not writing this to defend Harry Potter. It's true that much of popular culture makes use of fantasy supernaturalism and even dead (please G-d!) pagan religions (comic books use pagan "gxds" as characters, I hope because they are dead and they don't want to deprecate the True G-d by making Him a character in a comic book plot). It is true that this can be dangerous if one doesn't draw a strict line between fantasy and reality. But please don't be a hypocrite and excuse the same things done by others just because they were great conservative (though not Fundamentalist) chr*stian apologists.

270 posted on 07/12/2005 6:18:06 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Vehu' yihyeh pere' 'adam, yado vakol veyad kol bo.)
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Ten Arguments Against Harry Potter - By Woman Who Corresponded with Cardinal Ratzinger
Gabriele Kuby author of Harry Potter: Good or Evil

1. Harry Potter is a global long term project to change the culture. In the young generation inhibitions against magic and the occult are being destroyed. Thus, forces re-enter society which Christianity had overcome.

2. Hogwarts, the school of magic and witchcraft, is a closed world of violence and horror, of cursing and bewitching, of racist ideology, of blood sacrifice, disgust and obsession. There is an atmosphere of continuous threat, which the young reader cannot escape.

3. While Harry Potter appears in the beginning to fight against evil, in fact the similarities between him and Voldemort, the arch-evil adversary in the tale, become more and more obvious. In volume five, Harry is being obsessed by Voldemort, which leads to symptoms of personality disintegration.

4. The human world becomes degraded, the world of witches and sorcerers becomes glorified.

5. There is no positive transcendent dimension. The supernatural is entirely demonic. Devine symbols are perverted.

6. Harry Potter is no modern fairy tale. In fairy tales sorcerers and witches are unambiguous figures of evil. The hero escapes their power through the exercise of virtue. In the Harry Potter universe there is no character that endeavours consistently to achieve good. For seemingly good ends evil means are being used. 

7. A (young!) reader's power of discernment of good and evil is blocked out through emotional manipulation and intellectual confusion.

8. It is an assault upon the young generation, seducing it playfully into a world of witchcraft and sorcery, filling the imagination of the young with images of a world in which evil reigns, from which there is no escape, on the contrary, it is portrayed as highly desirable.

9. Those who value plurality of opinion should resist the nearly overwhelming power of this peer pressure, which is being accomplished through a gigantic corporate and multimedia blitz--one which displays elements of totalitarian brainwashing.

10. Since through the Potter books faith in a loving God is systematically undermined, even destroyed in many young people, through false "values" and mockery of Judeo-Christian truth, the introduction of these books in schools is intolerant. Parents should refuse permission for their children to take part in Potter indoctrination for reasons of faith and conscience.

See related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/05071301.html

Pope Opposes Harry Potter Novels - Signed Letters from Cardinal Ratzinger Now Online

RIMSTING, Germany, July 13, 2005 (LifeSiteNews.com) -  LifeSiteNews.com has obtained and made available online copies of two letters sent by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, who was recently elected Pope, to a German critic of the Harry Potter novels.  In March 2003, a month after the English press throughout the world falsely proclaimed that Pope John Paul II approved of Harry Potter, the man who was to become his successor sent a letter to a Gabriele Kuby outlining his agreement with her opposition to J.K. Rowling's offerings.  (See below for links to scanned copies of the letters signed by Cardinal Ratzinger.)

As the sixth issue of Rowling's Harry Potter series - Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince - is about to be released, the news that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger expressed serious reservations about the novels is now finally being revealed to the English-speaking world still under the impression the Vatican approves the Potter novels.

In a letter dated March 7, 2003 Cardinal Ratzinger thanked Kuby for her "instructive" book Harry Potter - gut oder böse (Harry Potter- good or evil?), in which Kuby says the Potter books corrupt the hearts of the young, preventing them from developing a properly ordered sense of good and evil, thus harming their relationship with God while that relationship is still in its infancy. 

"It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger. 

The letter also encouraged Kuby to send her book on Potter to the Vatican prelate who quipped about Potter during a press briefing which led to the false press about the Vatican support of Potter.  At a Vatican press conference to present a study document on the New Age in April 2003, one of the presenters - Rev. Peter Fleetwood - made a positive comment on the Harry Potter books in response to a question from a reporter.    Headlines such as "Pope Approves Potter" (Toronto Star), "Pope Sticks Up for Potter Books" (BBC), "Harry Potter Is Ok With The Pontiff" (Chicago Sun Times) and "Vatican: Harry Potter's OK with us" (CNN Asia) littered the mainstream media.

In a second letter sent to Kuby on May 27, 2003, Cardinal Ratzinger "gladly" gave his permission to Kuby to make public "my judgement about Harry Potter."

The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O'Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the "judgement" of now-Pope Benedict saying, "This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father's depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment." O'Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, "it is consistent with many of the statements he's been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him."

English translations of the two letters by Cardinal Ratzinger follow:

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger                             
Vatican City
March 7, 2003
Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby!

Many thanks for your kind letter of February 20th and the informative book which you sent me in the same mail.  It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly.

I would like to suggest that you write to Mr. Peter Fleetwood, (Pontifical Council of Culture, Piazza S. Calisto 16, I00153 Rome) directly and to send him your book.

Sincere Greetings and Blessings,

+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger 

=======================

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
Vatican City
May 27, 2003

Esteemed and dear Ms. Kuby,

Somehow your letter got buried in the large pile of name-day , birthday and Easter mail.  Finally this pile is taken care of, so that I can gladly allow you to refer to my judgment about Harry Potter.

Sincere Greetings and Blessings,

+ Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

Links to the scanned copies of the two signed letters by Cardinal Ratzinger (in German) - In PDF format:
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerlet...
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005_docs/ratzingerper...
See LifeSite's Harry Potter resource section at:
http://www.lifesite.net/features/harrypotter/

271 posted on 07/17/2005 9:44:33 PM PDT by Coleus (God doesn't like moderates, Rev 3:15-16)
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