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From Tradition to Truth - The testimony of a former Catholic Priest
The Berean Beacon ^ | Richard Bennett

Posted on 06/17/2004 2:39:49 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus

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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: gbcdoj; B Knotts
B Knotts: Also sad that people post such rubbish under the Catholic topic. Sadder still is the fact that they are apparently allowed to do so.

gbcdoj: Please stop posting these interviews with supposed former Catholics who either lie about Catholic beliefs or simply don't have a clue.

I know the truth can hurt at times but the answer is not Catholic censorship. Perhaps you can try putting your hands over your ears and singing: la la la la la la ...

42 posted on 06/18/2004 6:16:55 AM PDT by lockeliberty (Welcome to our country, founded by Protestants and for Protestants.)
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To: sandyeggo

WOW!!! Those are SO evil and pagan!!! </sarcasm>

Seriously, how did people get so brainwashed to think that Catholics don't use the Bible? The Mass is completely Biblical, not to mention it was being celebrated in the first Century!! But, whatever...


43 posted on 06/18/2004 6:20:28 AM PDT by GOP Soccer Mom (John 6:30-69)
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To: Desdemona
And in another scripture passage we read that faith without works is dead. It's all incorporated (that means part of one body).

That's in James, btw. I love that part. But I also forgot that Jesus' commands to Peter (about the lambs) was another exhortation to commit ourselves to works that are manifestations of our belief in Jesus. :)

44 posted on 06/18/2004 6:24:20 AM PDT by GOP Soccer Mom (John 6:30-69)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
For those of you who are in doubt of the authenticity of this man's Catholicism and holy orders I believe your best bet would be to contact him directly.

That is not a valid authentication of this BS article. Are we really to believe someone who took the time to contrive this could not also contrive some e-mail responses too?

You're a disgrace to screennames beginning with Petron...

45 posted on 06/18/2004 6:25:46 AM PDT by Petronski (Ronald Reagan: 1015 electoral votes.)
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Note: When reading Trent's canons o­n Justification, keep in mind that the Protestant teaching is constantly caricatured

LOL. Awfully funny disclaimer to place on a page full of caricature about Catholic teaching.

SD

46 posted on 06/18/2004 6:38:09 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: PetroniusMaximus
but it also insists o­n the necessity of good works to merit eternal life

If thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I guess Christ preached a false gospel too. Good thing Luther came along to set us all straight.

This question, then, seems to me to be by no means capable of solution, unless we understand that even those good works of ours, which are recompensed with eternal life, belong to the grace of God, because of what is said by the Lord Jesus: "Without me ye can do nothing." And the apostle himself, after saying, "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast;" saw, of course, the possibility that men would think from this statement that good works are not necessary to those who believe, but that faith alone suffices for them; and again, the possibility of men's boasting of their good works, as if they were of themselves capable of performing them. To meet, therefore, these opinions on both sides, he immediately added, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." What is the purport of his saying, "Not of works, lest any man should boast," while commending the grace of God? And then why does he afterwards, when giving a reason for using such words, say, "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works"? Why, therefore, does it run, "Not of works, lest any man should boast"? Now, hear and understand. "Not of works" is spoken of the works which you suppose have their origin in yourself alone; but you have to think of works for which God has moulded (that is, has formed and created) you. For of these he says, "We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works." Now he does not here speak of that creation which made us human beings, but of that in reference to which one said who was already in full manhood, "Create in me a clean heart, O God;" concerning which also the apostle says, "Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God." We are framed, therefore, that is, formed and created, "in the good works which" we have not ourselves prepared, but "God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (St. Aurelius Augustin, Treatise on Grace and Free Will, 20)


48 posted on 06/18/2004 6:52:41 AM PDT by gbcdoj (For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified.)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

To: lockeliberty
I know the truth can hurt at times but the answer is not Catholic censorship. Perhaps you can try putting your hands over your ears and singing: la la la la la la ...

The truth is that this fellow doesn't understand either St. Thomas or the Bible.

50 posted on 06/18/2004 7:33:56 AM PDT by gbcdoj (For not the hearers of the law are just before God: but the doers of the law shall be justified.)
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To: sandyeggo

LOL...basically he desperately wanted a wife and created this rubbish....how else can you explain it!!


51 posted on 06/18/2004 7:37:12 AM PDT by ejo
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To: Desdemona

***Our salvation was won, yes. But it's up to us to keep it ***

Then it wasn't truly won for us.


52 posted on 06/18/2004 7:37:14 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: gbcdoj
Yup! Luther sure did understand Jesus better than the Apostles, that's for sure! Better tell Paul he was wrong on works.

*dusting sandals off and going out for the day*

53 posted on 06/18/2004 7:43:55 AM PDT by GOP Soccer Mom (John 6:30-69)
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To: gbcdoj
The truth is that this fellow doesn't understand either St. Thomas or the Bible.

No, I think he understands both, well enough.

The Catholic Church, however, had taught me that the depravity of man, which is called "original sin," had been washed away by my infant baptism. I still held this belief in my head, but in my heart I knew that my depraved nature had not yet been conquered by Christ. "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection..." (Philippians 3:10) continued to be the cry of my heart. I knew that it could be o­nly through His power that I could live the Christian life. I posted this text o­n the dashboard of my car and in other places. It became the plea that motivated me, and the Lord who is Faithful began to answer.

Once the fog of legalism lifted he saw the light of Christ.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

"...seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature..."

54 posted on 06/18/2004 7:53:53 AM PDT by lockeliberty
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To: Desdemona

***"Do you really love me?" St. Peter answered yes and Jesus said "Feed my lambs." Jesus asked St. Peter to do works out of love for Him. ***

Exactly!

Works spring from love. They are not done in order to obtain the love of God. Works are done (by the power of the Spirit) out of gratitude for a salvation already won.

***If those works are done out of love for Christ, why are they so bad?***

They are not bad if done from such a motive. But if there are done out of a self-focused desire to earn favor and thereby save ones self rather that rest in the salvation that Jesus freely gives then they are of no avail.

It comes down to this:

Why in the world should God let you into heaven?


55 posted on 06/18/2004 8:00:13 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
Why in the world should God let you into heaven?

Because He has made me worthy. Not cause He pretends I am.

SD

56 posted on 06/18/2004 8:53:34 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: Lilllabettt

Well said.


58 posted on 06/18/2004 9:00:29 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: lockeliberty
I knew that it could be o­nly through His power that I could live the Christian life.

Since he didn't understand this as a Catholic, he didn't understand Catholicism, because this is Catholic dogma.

Too bad someone so ignorant was ordained, but ordination guarantees neither knowledge, nor orthodox, nor personal holiness. Those are supposed to be present beforehand.

59 posted on 06/18/2004 9:21:18 AM PDT by Campion
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To: PetroniusMaximus
In its official writings, the Catholic Church teaches that faith is important; but it also insists o­n the necessity of good works to merit eternal life.

Yeah, as do James, and Paul (see Romans 2), and Jesus. Faith without works is dead, and such a faith has no power to save one. If you don't preach that, you aren't preaching Scripture.

60 posted on 06/18/2004 9:24:24 AM PDT by Campion
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