FUBAR in Iraq- Career soldier opinion

Capitol Hill Blue ^

[BlackJack]

The Rant

Good Morning Vietnam By DOUG THOMPSON Oct 10, 2003, 07:55

Vietnam. So long ago yet so vivid still in the minds of so many. Long enough ago that the history of the conflict is now taught in high schools and colleges – all too often by young men and women too young to have served there if – in fact – they served at all.

Vietnam. A name conjured up now whenever somebody wants to question what is happening in Iraq. Another Vietnam, they say. Another debacle for America.

Had lunch the other day with an old friend, a career soldier just back from Iraq. He missed Vietnam. Too young. He used to say he was glad. Vietnam raised too many questions for someone who wanted to make the military his life.

He survived other conflicts. Somalia. Lebanon, Grenada, Desert Storm. After Desert Storm, he marched down the streets of Washington to cheers, a hero’s welcome that had eluded American military men and women since World War II.

My father was “Class of ’45,” veteran of World War II, mustered out after the war ended. He came home to cheers, parades and a grateful nation. It didn’t start out that way. Even with the national horror over Pearl Harbor, some doubted the wisdom of entering the war. When American soldiers fell in the first battle in North Africa, Winston Churchill called our military “the unqualified leading the untrained into the unknown for the ungrateful.”

Four years later, Churchill – and the rest of the world – held a much higher opinion of American capabilities in war. The nation that had never lost a war stood proud.

Then came Korea. No victory there. Just a truce – of sorts – and more questions than answers.

Then Vietnam.

“I missed Vietnam,” my friend said at lunch. “I thought about retiring after Desert Storm. I should have.”

I couldn’t help but notice how much older he looked. More lines in the face. More gray in the hair. More emptiness behind the eyes.

Was it that bad? I had to ask.

“Bad,” he said. “Classic FUBAR.”

In military terms, FUBAR is the worst-case scenario. Most military operations start out as SNAFU (Situation Normal, All F***ed Up). If things get worse, they graduate to TACFU (Totally And Completely F***ed Up). When things get really bad, they reach FUBAR (F***ed Up Beyond All Repair).

“A mission without a goal,” he said. “An engagement without rules. The intel was pure FUBAR. No exit strategy. We’re going to be there for a long, long time. Maybe people are right. Maybe it is another Vietnam.”

Vietnam was 10 years, 58,325 dead and many more left scarred permanently. More Americans died in one day of battle in Vietnam than the total casualty count of the Iraq war.

“So far,” he said. “We were in Vietnam for 10 years.”

The news out of Iraq usually brings reports of more American deaths at the hands of Saddam loyalists who use snipers, ambushes and car bombs to continue a war that President George W. Bush says ended months ago. Those who support the Bush administration say the press is exaggerating the problems in Iraq.

“No,” my friend said. “They’re not. The situation is worse. Far worse.”

So why not speak out? Won’t people listen to a career soldier?

“Not this career soldier. I want to get out on my own terms, with my rank and pension intact. My family’s future is more important. I’m no fool.”

From the restaurant window we could see the Pentagon, including the section taken out by a hijacked airliner on September 11, 2001.

“I’ve been a professional soldier most of my adult life,” he said. “I’ve been proud to serve my country even when I thought we might be wrong. But I’m not proud now. And that makes me want to puke.”

As we walked back to our cars, I thought about a day more than 30 years earlier. A young man returning home from war walked through an airport terminal in Los Angeles, back on American soil after too long away.

An older man approached and asked:  “You been in Vietnam son?”

“Yes sir, I have. Just got home.”

Tears welled up in the old man’s eyes. He spat in the young man’s face and walked away.

As my friend, a no-longer-proud career soldier, walked away to his car, I fought back my own tears.

Good morning Vietnam.

[BlackJack]

No exit strategy for Iraq is the main problem. This will get very expensive over time. We should concentrate on destroying terror cells around the world, not get into expensive occupation situations.

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[stands2reason]

Capitol Hill Blue + unnamed source....


I think I'll pass...

[sitetest]

Dear BlackJack,

Is this "professional soldier" as reliable as Douglas' last anonymous source? The "intelligence contact" he'd "known" for 20 years?

LOL.

No thanks, I think I'll pass.


sitetest

[sitetest]

LOL. Ya' beat me to it.

[Gunrunner2]

Exactly. . .especially this part: "From the restaurant window we could see the Pentagon, including the section taken out by a hijacked airliner on September 11, 2001." The side where the Pentagon got hit overlooks the Navy Annex and Arlington Cemetary, no restaurants that I can recall.

I think the writer is making things up.

[Old Sarge]

Those were my thoughts, too.

Anti-military anti-Bush anti-America hit piece...

[tet68]

, I thought about a day more than 30 years earlier. A young man returning home from war walked through an airport terminal in Los Angeles, back on American soil after too long away.

An older man approached and asked: “You been in Vietnam son?”

“Yes sir, I have. Just got home.”

Tears welled up in the old man’s eyes. He spat in the young man’s face and walked away.

So he's saying this happend to him?

I'm saying this happend to me, coming through that same airport, yes I got some nasty looks, but that same old man with tears in his eyes, took me aside bought me a meal and a beer and thanked me for doing my duty as he had done during wwII.

This article smells like bad fish.

[HairOfTheDog]

As my friend, a no-longer-proud career soldier, walked away to his car, I fought back my own tears.

Oh brother.... Little heavy on the drama there buddy.

The war is won.... this is no Vietnam. We hold a country not all of which are happy we are there, and they act out and are quashed. Our losses, while heavily reported, are fewer than we lose to crime in this country every day. And the job of rebuilding there (the success of which is not reported) is what we agreed to do when we decided to take over and control another country. We have an exit strategy.... to not rush to leave before there is an infrastructure in place and a government we can live with that can survive.

Come on.... those of us safely at home, don't be so easily scared. Because someone shoots back we must run away home? We have had a great success.... losing great soldiers as we always will in a war, but fewer in the whole conflict than would often be lost in a DAY in Vietnam.

Continued strength to our forces.... which I know they have.... and please.... lets have a little fortitude back home.

[Alas Babylon!]

That's what I was thinking. Maybe from Crystal City if you eat up on the roof and got a 1/2 mile long neck.

This story is 180 degrees from what I'm hearing from career military returning from Iraq. Maybe this guy is Sgt Joe Wilson????? Don't out his wife!

[montomike]

From his bio:

Despite his success in new media, Thompson remains a newspaperman at heart and lives by the creed that it is the role of a newspaperman to "comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable."

Sounds like all he has done for his country is be a newspaperman. What the hell has he ever done for his country but suck its blood and put it down.

[dighton]

For your evaluation.

[Seydlitz]

Newspeak Definition: Exit Strategy = Telling the enemy what conditions he must achieve in order to get the United States to leave.

Can any of these "exit strategy" freaks elaborate on FDR's exit strategy for World War II?

[Gunrunner2]

LOL. . .half mile long neck would just about do it.

[Gunrunner2]

Good on ya.

[reformedliberal]

It seems to me that rebuilding a democratic Iraq and turning it over to the Iraqis, who will be equipped to deal w/their own problems w/o us, IS an exit strategy.

VN sucked. I lived in this country all thru Vietnam. People I loved were there and came home changed & not for the better. This is not Vietnam, except for the media trying to do now what they did then: turn the American people against the war and forestalling any democracy in country.

If we had had the Internet and FR in 1972, would it have turned out differently? I think so.

[Columbine]

No way!

I still remember that Doug Thompson had to back down from his last unnamed source.

Anyone ever hear anymore about his proof? I thought not.

Thompson has absolutely no credibility with me.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

What do you mean by exit strategy. The exit strategy is to help rebuild the country's infrastructure, get the government going and to build a permanent strategic base in Iraq. Six month after the war it's looking pretty good.

[martin_fierro]

Ditto that.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

[Joe Marine 76]

To Doug Thompson:

This piece is a load of bull hockey!

Is this "careerist" an Officer or Staff Non-Commissioned Officer? You gave no grade or time-in-service; you gave only the vague "I missed Vietnam" line. If this "soldier" really exists and had the courage of his convictions he would at least let the world know if he was a Colonel, Lieutenant Colonel or Sergeant Major or perhaps Master Sergeant. Maybe you should have asked how he did on his last "Performance Evaluation or Fitness for Duty Report" as these reports tend to color the perceptions of many soldiers', sailors' and Marines' thoughts of "how things are going" whether they are serving in a theater of war or in garrison.

[Jalapeno]

Everyone expects all conflicts to be rosey, or else they are "Vietnam". The people who call it Vietnam have little or no understanding of that time, and we are no where near there.

I think the darkest hour for this war on terror we are now in is yet to come. The bi-polarized nature of our country politically at this moment makes it a very dangerous time. Hopefully the scales will tip the correct way so we can survive as a nation.

[marron]

What do you mean by exit strategy. The exit strategy is to help rebuild the country's infrastructure, get the government going and to build a permanent strategic base in Iraq. Six month after the war it's looking pretty good.

You beat me to it. The exit strategy is to establish an Iraqi government that doesn't slaughter its people in any exagerated fashion, and to use our position there to apply steady pressure to Riyahd, Damascus, and Tehran. We aren't leaving. There is no exit strategy because we aren't going anywhere.

[Delta 21]

Swing and a miss.......

[cyncooper]

I'm afraid Doug Thompson's credibility, and hence his opinion, are worthless.

[cyncooper]

Let me guess. The "professional soldier" is named Terry Wilkerson (or was it Wilkinson?).

[judicial meanz]

This sounds fishy to me.

The author lists most of the major conflicts of the last 20 odd years, and the chances of a career soldier making every single one of them is pretty slim. People go to schools, make command changes due to transfer, get assigned to administrative positions, etc. Besides, Lebanon was a Marine Corps operation, not a US Army operation.

[First_Salute]

President George Bush's fear of being defined as being "meanspirited," is at the center of the problem; he will not prosecute where the "liberal media" will persecute him.

[pfflier]

with my rank and pension intact

For this choice of words, I suspect the validity of the whole story.

Civilians have pensions and use that term. Military members always have a retirement. This whole article is made up.

[Cold Heat]

We should concentrate on destroying terror cells around the world, not get into expensive occupation situations.

Bush indicated that the exit strategy is what it is. "AS LONG AS IT TAKES"

BTW, why go all over the world when the terrorists are coming to us in droves while we occupy Iraq.

They are making it easy my FRiend.

[pfflier]

No exit stategy is needed. We are there like we are still in Germany after WWII. We stayed to stop the threat from the USSR.

Now we need to stay to stop the threat of global 8th century religous fundamentalism coming from the Middle East..

[Snickersnee]

Pantload.

[cardinal4]

The side where the Pentagon got hit overlooks the Navy Annex and Arlington Cemetary, no restaurants that I can recall.

Thats the first thing I thought of as well..

[Qatar-6]

Just got back from Iraq in Sept - deployed for a year

Things aren't as bad as this guy says

CPA was slow in getting out of the starting gate but they're doing better now

No one who was a planner believed we'd be this far along this quickly

Still, we'll be there for at least 2-3 more years

This guy sounds like a whiner to me. Not everything is going to be as cheap as Grenada or as quick as Panama.

[okie01]

"Had lunch the other day with an old friend, a career soldier just back from Iraq."

Was Doug's old friend named Terrence J. Wilkerson, by any chance?

[Jalapeno]

What are the chances of catching Saddam?

Do you think his demise would make their job easier?

[okie01]

"Was Doug's old friend named Terrence J. Wilkerson, by any chance?"

Ping.

[walden]

Amen. It isn't the old guys who spit, it's the young guys who feel guilty that they didn't go. (My sweetie is an old Marine veteran of Vietnam-- most everything important that I know about that war came from him.)

Thank you for your service.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

This thing reads like an urban ledgend--wish fulfilment for leftists.

Actually, I know the identity of this soldier--it's none other than Wesley Clark!

[walden]

"People I loved were there and came home changed & not for the better."

Your experience is different from mine. I have worked for a couple of Vietnam vets, dated a couple, and loved one. I don't know what they were like before, but I can tell you that afterwards they were very fine men, excellent leaders, completely honorable. I find it hard to believe that they were better before.

[wireman]

What a pantload this is!

[William McKinley]

Figures. ROFL

[Don Carlos]

why go all over the world when the terrorists are coming to us in droves while we occupy Iraq

In a single sentence, that is the best answer to the leftie a-holes. If the muslim fanatics are willing to go to Iraq and face off with the best equipped and trained army in the world, what more can right-thinking people ask?

Prior to Iraq, they hid in the shadows. At least now, we know where they are!

[Cold Heat]

Prior to Iraq, they hid in the shadows. At least now, we know where they are!

Absolutely!

Not to mention the added intel that we gather when we capture these morons. We find out who supplied them, who got them across the border and who they report to.

This is having the effect of speeding up the process.

The hoover is running 24/7 and the bag is filling.

[Qatar-6]

I've no doubt we'll get him sooner or later

The fish has to be lucky every time, the fisherman only once

It would make things easier. How much so is hard to say.

It would certainly bring a large sigh of relief from a large segment of the Iraqi population

All the best

Qatar-6

[Destructor]

"No exit strategy for Iraq is the main problem. This will get very expensive over time. We should concentrate on destroying terror cells around the world, not get into expensive occupation situations."

President Bush told us that the war in Iraq would be a long-term commitment. Besides, the attacks of September 11th weren't exactly a bargain by comparison! What price do you want to put on the economy of the United States, and our way of life?

[edchambers]

No exit strategy for Iraq is the main problem.

Bull the main problem is liberals and thier willing acomplices in the media undermining the war effort period.And by the way that was the exact same reason we lost in viet nam too.

[Plutarch]

This interview with a "career soldier" is just as bogus as emails from a "Marine in Iraq". There is no specificity.

Specificity is the soul of credibility.

[Plutarch]

This interview with a "career soldier" is just as bogus as emails from a "Marine in Iraq". There is no specificity.

Specificity is the soul of credibility.

[reformedliberal]

It wasn't those qualities. It was a deep tiredness, a cynicism, an emptiness. They were betrayed.

They are still fine people.

[Ronin]

This smells on a lot of different levels.

Too bad. I used to like Doug.

I won't read him again.