Patton: The Glory of War and its Limitations

Toogood Reports ^ | 28 September 2003 | Nicholas Stix

[Alamo-Girl]

Volley bump and hugs!!!

[section9]

Indeed I do. Despite the force reductions of the 1990's, I believe our army to be among the best in its history. Not up there with the Roman Legions, perhaps, but skippered well enough at the platoon level to engage and defeat any force on earth today. Just because they beat a bunch of sad sacks doesn't mean they aren't an excellent force. The Wehrmacht beat up on a bunch of sad sacks in France in May of 1940. It doesn't follow from the fact that the Frogs are a bunch of rifle droppers that the Germans didn't have a truly great army. The same holds true for the U.S. Army, more so for the Marine Corps. They are the best on the planet today.

With the exception of the Britain's Royal Army, of course. They are the best, period.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Light Speed]

Was watching a documentary on Roosevelt,,Charles De gaul and Winston Churchill.

A real eye opener as to the difficulty France presented as per the Vichy..treacherous French leaders like De Gaul..and third parties with their views.
Roosevelt could not stand De Gaul...basically snubbed him..Splitting the future command of the free French forces.
They were to all meet at Casablanca..yet De Gaul was back in England throwing tantraums.
Winston had to manipulate the jilted Frenchy to get him to attend the meet.
Roosevelt becoming dissed with the childish behaviour of DeGaul..decided to slap him one during a media photo opp.
leaning over to Winston..The President commented out loud..

"Yes indeed...when is she going to get here." ?

I can understand Pattons frustration with command...he was aware of the French games..the Russians.
Having his Freind Omar Bradley..help him..then at the same turn..dress him down ..sit his army..letting the Birts advance for their glory pie cut.

As history goes..U.S. Mech assets in Europe were hard chargers..if Germany got a break..it would likely involve the weather.

Maybe the scale of Pattons vision scared the Brass..his impatience.
He may have been a "Pain in the Ass"..yet history marks him as the Right Stuff as leaders go.
Confidence..and resolve go along way when Battle is addressed.

[general_re]

Lookee here - there's a freeper handle I haven't seen in a dog's age ;)

[xsmommy]

HG, dang! long time no see. heck, we need to get up a thong thread or something, general, to welcome HG back, all proper like... ; )

[Fudd]

When I grew up, it was taken for granted that every president would have served his country under combat arms.

I am assuming that you are a boomer. Your parent's generation (my grandparents) sent a lot of young men into the war, and every President from Ike to GHWB served in that war, if I remember correctly. However, the rapist and W are boomers too. Their war did not involve as much of the population as did WWII, so it is not surprising that we see fewer candidates with a military background.

...all I see is a bunch of draft-dodgers. (dems and GOP'ers).

I don't think that one's military service (or lack thereof) is a qualifier for serving as President. Consider Gen. Clark - who on FR would vote for him because of his service record? Another retired general is on the record as saying he would not vote for Clark because of character issues.

[Robert Drobot]

An incredible thread. Thank you.

[dsc]

Just to pick a nit, the opening music isn't Reveille, it's "To the Colors."

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

We won in Iraq through an overwhelming advantage in men and materiel,..

Geeze I thought the Wes Clark said we had insufficient troops.

Sorry we don't do wars of attrition, that's the old Europe philosophy. We do firstest with the mostest. How? With superior ability to communicate the operational picture up and down the chain of command. We knew where the Iraqi Divisions were. They could only guess at our dispositions. In addition, it appears that hardcore elements adopted the run away to fight another day strategy. There's a lot of buried munitions and weapons that are being policed up.

As far as the ability to fight and win, each American generation has demonstrated it toughness, ability and courage. I don't think today's generation has to take a back seat to anyone.

[Colt .45]

Our victory in Iraq was planned out by some leaders who studied their tactics. "There is nothing to be gained by a long protracted war" - Sun Tzu. And G.S.P. knew and studied tactics.

But make no mistake, our Military force is the best in the world. Why? Because it is staffed by people who love their freedom enough to fight for it. They are highly disciplined, and highly effective as long as we do not allow the moral fabric of the service to be undermined by the likes of DACOWITS (Defense Assessment Committee On Women In The Service) and the Gay Rights fuqairs.

[x]

He's great on the movie and should have stuck with that. The contrast between Patton and Bradley suggests that there are more options than Stix lets on.

[mrustow]

Sure, It was not his bio, but the story of a man in crucial moment in history.

Well, I don't want to get pedantic about what counts as a biopic. A biopic of his entire life would either have had to run 9 hours, or been extremely superficial. I'm very pleased with the way it turned out. And having seen thousands of movies, including a few hundred war pictures, I'm skeptical that it could have been done better.

[archy]

But my God, how we need one like him now. And what we have are far from being his sort. *ducking the well-deserved shoes being thrown at me!*

The steel *punji plates* sticking through the bottoms of my old 'Nam-issue jungle boots are gonna hurt if they connect!

-archy-/-

[archy]

Our victory in Iraq was planned out by some leaders who studied their tactics. "There is nothing to be gained by a long protracted war" - Sun Tzu. And G.S.P. knew and studied tactics.

But do you know who G.S.P.'s first teacher of such things, a veteran of the 1861-1865, was?

And too, don't forget the generality that amateurs and junior lieutenants study tactics and strategies. Real professionals sweat the logistics.

-archy-/-

[mrustow]

Thanks for the tip; I'll try and get my hands on De' Este's book. I wondered about Bradley, seeing as he had all that influence, while Patton was off in that Great Battlefield in the Sky. And yet, the movie doesn't come across as a hatchet job to me.

[dirtboy]

The italicized statement at the top, from the essay, stands. You have brought no argument against it.

Once again, I said that the statement was true. And absurd.

I have to explain for other FReepers' benefit, that dirtboy has some sort of grudge against the author of the post, and as on earlier threads, just hurls effete snob insults his way, the facts be damned.

Nah, I just have an aversion for nonsense. Which is why this guy draws so much criticism.

[dirtboy]

and as on earlier threads, just hurls effete snob insults his way

Which was then followed by you hurling a vulgar insult. Which in turn aptly points out your hypocrisy.

[mrustow]

So, you think our force in Iraq was one of world history's great military machines? I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but beating the lowly Iraqi army, and not even having had to face the Iraqi air force, such as it was, somehow fails to generate such enthusiasm in me. Maybe you possess some secret info the rest of us lack.

Careful, mister. I have it on good authority (first-hand from an F/A-18 pilot) that our men and women patrolling the skies faced some pretty stiff opposition from the Iraqi air defenses. Perhaps the Iraqi military was no match for ours this time around, but it was far from defenseless.

We lost how many planes? Even with inferior, affirmative action female pilots patrolling the skies? Besides, you don't quote your source as speaking of the Iraqi air force, but only of "air defenses," which, far from refuting me, would seem to support my point.

[born yesterday]

If I were you, I wouldn't bother with Dirtboy's comments.

I admire your whole posting...and responses.

I was taken by Patton's theory to avoid foxhole digging...but rather continue moving foward. (I believe this came from someone else but your post engendered it.)