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Patch-Fatigued Users Contemplate Ditching Microsoft
InternetWeek ^ | September 15, 2003 | John Foley, George V. Hulme

Posted on 09/15/2003 1:30:06 PM PDT by HAL9000

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To: HAL9000
Another business-technology executive estimates his company's IT department has wasted more than 1,000 hours patching Windows systems....

Yet, business better get used to it. CIOs need to "literally put a line item" in IT budgets to cover the ongoing cost of patches, advises Kerry Gerontianos, president of systems integrator Incremax Technologies Corp. On the old goal of administration-free Windows, Gerontianos says, "that was a dream."

Microsoft is going to need that $50B to finance a slush fund to discount their products in order to keep customers from defecting. They're already trying this with government customers.

Even so, these businesses are going to have to raise their prices to offset their costs of maintaining their legacy Windows computing infrastructure. So their customers (i.e. "us") get to pay yet another Microsoft Tax.

Thanks again, Microsoft.

41 posted on 09/15/2003 4:54:14 PM PDT by TechJunkYard
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To: r9etb
Sarcasm aside, you are correct. There would be no virus problem under Linux and MAC, since these are both *NIX based and do not launch executables embedded in email as does Microsoft.

Hint, viruses are transmitted by email... they have a different name when they break in directly over a TCP/IP, and this is the only kind *NIX boxes are really susceptible to...

42 posted on 09/15/2003 5:01:16 PM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: r9etb
Sarcasm aside, you are correct. There would be no virus problem under Linux and MAC, since these are both *NIX based and do not launch executables embedded in email as does Microsoft.

Hint, viruses are transmitted by email... they have a different name when they break in directly over a TCP/IP port, and this is the only kind *NIX boxes are really susceptible to...

43 posted on 09/15/2003 5:01:18 PM PDT by chilepepper (The map is not the territory -- Alfred Korzybski)
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To: Bush2000
Do you just make this cr*p up as you go?!? Seriously, you're a one-man FUD generation machine. Nearly everything you type is false.

Heh. You still haven't responded to my assertion about Windows clustering -- show me evidence that basic features like process migration and memory ushering is supported. I see you decided to declare victory and run away.

44 posted on 09/15/2003 6:04:00 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: chilepepper
There would be no virus problem under Linux and MAC, since these are both *NIX based and do not launch executables embedded in email as does Microsoft.

Gee, then I must have hallucinated those countless executables I launched from email in the years I worked on Unix systems...

Hint, viruses are transmitted by email...

Bigger hint: Email is only *one* of many methods by which viruses spread.

they have a different name when they break in directly over a TCP/IP port, and this is the only kind *NIX boxes are really susceptible to...

You are grossly misinformed.

45 posted on 09/15/2003 6:10:12 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: rdb3
That picture kind of makes me think that Linux is part Windows. :p
46 posted on 09/15/2003 6:15:06 PM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: Bush2000
Do you just make this cr*p up as you go?!? Seriously, you're a one-man FUD generation machine. Nearly everything you type is false.

I see that your legendary poor reading comprehension is biting you in the ass once again. You apparently missed that Linux systems are typically rooted because of poor system administration, not underlying software vulnerabilities. Linux security can be fixed with good administration, but all the administration in the world on a Windows server won't help you if there is an exploit due to a software defect. Poor administration is not an intrinsic "vulnerability" of the OS, it is a person defect. A properly managed server without a defective OS should be safe on the Internet without a firewall. In terms of intrinsic OS vulnerabilities to hacking (i.e. software and design defects), Windows is far more vulnerable than Linux.

Which is why FreeBSD, which serves a remarkable percentage of pages on the Internet despite it being a relatively small percentage of servers, also had only a small number of exploits (in this particular study). The OS itself is as secure as any in common use, but all it takes is a stupid admin or lack thereof to be exploited.

Incidentally, the statistics in that particular study are dubious, primarily because the population was selected oddly out of all the exploited systems out there. There a couple specific documented incidents of rooted Windows servers alone that in sum total generated a larger number of incidents than the total they report. Unless they count a single hacker rooting over 2,000 Windows servers through one exploit a single "attack" (to give a real-world example out of many). But that would be liberal math.

47 posted on 09/15/2003 6:25:09 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
I hate to rain on everyone's parade but the numbers speak for themselves. For the last full year 2002:

Linux had 75 security patches
ALL Microsoft had 72 security patches

Source:

Linux - https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/rh72-errata-security.html

Microsoft - http://www.microsoft.com/security/security_bulletins/

Go count them for yourself. Keep in mind that the 72 for Microsoft was for ALL Microsoft products not just Windows. If you just count those for Windows itself Linux looks even worse.
48 posted on 09/15/2003 6:28:12 PM PDT by AgentOfTruth (- Sometimes the truth is insensitive)
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To: ex-Texan
I use an older version of the Mozilla Browser about 30% of the time. It is a really excellent browser, but I am cautious about the latest Mozilla builds.

I've just started using the latest Mozilla Firebird build - I've seen so many Freepers extolling Mozilla that I decided I ought to check it out. So far I really like what I see - it runs much more crisply than IE 6.

49 posted on 09/15/2003 6:34:00 PM PDT by CFC__VRWC (AIDS, abortion, euthanasia - don't liberals just kill ya?)
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To: AgentOfTruth
LOL!! I know someone who uses both Red Hat and Windows and he'll back you up on that comparison.
50 posted on 09/15/2003 6:38:49 PM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: AgentOfTruth
If you just count those for Windows itself Linux looks even worse.

Ummm... Perhaps you should compare apples to apples. Many (most?) of those "security patches" under Linux are to fix behaviors that aren't really server exploits. In fact, some of them are to secure behaviors that aren't secured at all under Windows, due mostly to architectural differences; I think it is a bit much to assert equivalence. (Also, your count is wrong -- many of those security patches are actually bundles of multiple patches.)

51 posted on 09/15/2003 6:39:13 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: lelio
Its not that easy, when your environment starts to get over 50 servers (hardware), and serving perhaps more than one hundred applications (DB and NIS on the same box) you have an environment with many dependancies and a regular window can be a pain.

Beyond this there is a need to test these patchs before they are moved into production.

52 posted on 09/15/2003 7:00:25 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: HairOfTheDog
Anyone who says that has never worked with an enterprise production system..
53 posted on 09/15/2003 7:04:46 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: AgentOfTruth
Go count them for yourself. Keep in mind that the 72 for Microsoft was for ALL Microsoft products not just Windows. If you just count those for Windows itself Linux looks even worse.

You need to count your list of patches more closely.

I could only find 11 of your "Linux patches" that were actually for the Linux kernel. The rest of them were for open source software applications that are only bundled in Linux distributions. They also run on a variety of other Unix platforms (both proprietary and open source versions).

There's also a problem with comparing them directly. Microsoft is free to release security fixes along with other patches or service packs, without anyone but them knowing they are fixing security problems. They are only identifying patches as security problems when the exploit becomes publicly known.

On the other hand, an open source software vendor can't bundle a security fix into a larger patch and sneak it into the system, because everyone can see the code changes.

54 posted on 09/15/2003 7:08:04 PM PDT by justlurking
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To: HAL9000
This article is much ado about nothing. Technology is always evolving; nothing is ironclad or guaranteed to work. No matter what comes out there will always be idiots out there trying to exploit their flaws. Perhaps the whiners in the article would like to go back to vacuum-tube computers and switchboard operators from the 1950s.
55 posted on 09/15/2003 7:08:59 PM PDT by ServesURight (FReecerely Yours,)
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To: scott7278
I have 12 updates (one is critical) in the past week that have went to test. they average far more than four an month..
56 posted on 09/15/2003 7:10:37 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: tortoise
Since we are talking about real operating systems, lets leave Apple out of the discussion. :-)

A security patch is a security patch. I didn't classify them, Red Hat and Microsoft did.

Since you mentioned the patch bundling, the numbers for those in 2003 (the only year I have them for) are:

Microsoft: 54 vulns fixed in 39 bulletins. Avg of 1.384 fixes / bulletin

Linux: 129 vulns fixed in 93 bulletins. Avg of 1.387 fixes/bulletin.

All the penguins better get patching!
57 posted on 09/15/2003 7:11:56 PM PDT by AgentOfTruth (- Sometimes the truth is insensitive)
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To: Bush2000
Takes far less time and planning that patching a windows server..
58 posted on 09/15/2003 7:12:06 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Windcatcher
I had the exact same thought 2k is the best they are going to do. Its a stable and mroe importantly predictable NT kernel. If they had focused on cleaning that up and not bloating it with desktop features they could have had one heck of an OS..

We are working tword getting the last of out NT servers out of the mix (domain controllers) and the next move from 2000 will be to *nix whenever possible..

59 posted on 09/15/2003 7:17:20 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: HAL9000
I'm all patched and not gonna change until I find an OS that is as good!

Amiga, anyone?

PDP-8
60 posted on 09/15/2003 7:21:35 PM PDT by lawdude
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