Redskins, American Indians face off in trademark ruling

http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/6495743 ^ | 7-23-2003 | SportsLine.com wire reports

[Brookhaven]

WASHINGTON -- The Washington Redskins, again confronted by American Indians who find the team's name offensive, asked a judge to overturn a ruling that revoked the team's federal trademark protection.

"My clients honor -- they don't ridicule," said Redskins lawyer Robert Raskopf, echoing the NFL team's long-held contention that its use of the nickname is meant as a tribute.

Seven American Indians successfully argued otherwise in 1999, when the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board granted their petition to cancel the team's trademark registrations because of a federal law that prohibits registering "disparaging" names.

The Redskins appealed, and U.S. District Court Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly heard the case Wednesday. A ruling is not expected for a few weeks, after Kollar-Kotelly has had time to review a sealed deposition by Redskins owner Dan Snyder regarding the case's possible financial impact.

If the team loses the case, it stands to lose its exclusive rights to market the Redskins name, particularly through merchandise. The petitioners hope this would lead Snyder to change the nickname, although he has pledged not to do so.

Raskopf was unrelenting in his criticism of the trademark board, telling Kollar-Kotelly that "they obviously lack the ability to separate good evidence from bad." He attacked the petitioners' use of dictionary definitions of "redskin," said a phone survey presented as evidence was flawed and that the seven petitioners were not sufficiently representative of the American Indian population.

"It can't be seven people. It can't be 100 people. It can't be 1,000 people," Raskopf said. "There are 2.41 million Native Americans."

The lead petitioner, Suzan Shown Harjo, said the team has yet to produce an American Indian that favors the team's nickname since the petition was first filed in 1992.

"The largest Native American organizations support not only our position against the name, but our side in the suit," Harjo said. "It's been more than 11 years, and they've yet to produce any Native American people."

The team first registered the Redskins nickname in 1967, and Raskopf argued there was a "ridiculously long" period of 25 years before the petition was filed against it. Raskopf said the sealed financial evidence shows the Redskins would suffer "every imaginable loss you can think of" if they no longer had the exclusivity of the brand they had been marketing for 36 years.

Michael Lindsay, lawyer for the petitioners, claimed the team would suffer minimal financial impact, but Kollar-Kotelly was skeptical of his premise.

"If it doesn't make any difference," the judge said, "then why do people register?"

[Brookhaven]

This is the appeal finally getting to court.

[Lunatic Fringe]

WASHINGTON -- The Washington Redskins, again confronted by American Indians and many other Americans who find the team's name offensive, asked a judge to overturn a ruling that revoked the team's federal trademark protection.

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

[bedolido]

this is one redskins game I hope the skins win... they haven't been to lucky game-wise... so good luck to the skins. Don't let the PC crowd win this one.

[E Rocc]

The lead petitioner, Suzan Shown Harjo, said the team has yet to produce an American Indian that favors the team's nickname since the petition was first filed in 1992.

In western cities, predominantly Amerind Bloods (gang) sets have been known to use Redskins gears as colors, while the Crips prefer Chief Wahoo (Cleveland Indians).

-Eric

[Grando Calrissian]

My gang uses the colors of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

[N. Theknow]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

If it is so offensive then what about Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull?

Or for something more up to date, how about Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell?

BTW, you should go to Foxwoods reservation in Connecticut and see how many "deeply offended" Indians are wearing Washington Redskins products.

[mr.pink]

Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

I fully agree and figure eventually they will change it.

Even though I'm not a fan of the team, it's fans are truly a great group. I wish they had an owner with a level of class equal to that of the teams fan base.

[bedolido]

I fully agree and figure eventually they will change it.

I undestood the Washington "Bullets" changing their name to the "Wizards" (dumb name in my opinion). However, PC-ism is getting out of control. Here in Idaho we had 10-20 mountain name changed becuase they were offensive to some. The Grand Tetons may have it's name changed by feminist groups someday. Redskins was a term from the frontier days of the USA, used to describe the Indians (un-PC I know).

[RonF]

a federal law that prohibits registering "disparaging" names.

Hm. Then according to what I see on FR, it would be illegal for the Democratic Party to register its name.

[Last Visible Dog]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

This is so silly on so many levels.

I have lived my entire life in the Washington area and I am a life-long Redskin fan.

First, we LIKE our football team. The name comes with respect, not ridicule.

Second. The way I understand it:

The Redskins started out in Boston. The name comes from the patriots that painted their faces red for the Boston tea party (OK, they made themselves look like Indians in an attempt to avoid getting in trouble).

The Redskins have a proud heritage. I believe the Redskins are in the top five of Super Bowl winners. The name comes with respect.

[bedolido]

I believe the Redskins are in the top five of Super Bowl winners.

Okay you had me until you got greedy... though true, this is superfluous information from a die-hard skins fan :). However, thanks for the history lesson. I hope the lawyers know and use that info.

[mr.pink]

Redskins was a term from the frontier days of the USA, used to describe the Indians (un-PC I know).

Why yes, it was...but the PC toops merely need to trot out "the only good redskin is a dead redskin" saying as a means to associate the name with uncomfortable racial sentiments.

IMO, both the teams current logo (spear) and previous logo(Chief's head) are respectful tributes to American Indians, but the battle over the name will not end.

[bedolido]

true. read post 10. I didn't know the team was named after the boston tea party avengers. the team needs to change it's emblems to the same.

[muawiyah]

Nuts! Around here the fans call them "the skins", and you know in all sports, there are only two sides ~ "the shirts" and "the skins".

Besides which, this area prides itself on having multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural support of it's pro-football team.

These so-called "Indians", who are the same ones persecuting the Abenaki people, are nothing more than outside agitators who know nothing, feel nothing, are nothing, and all they want to do is tear down pride in "the skins".

They should all go back to San Francisco where they belong!

[mr.pink]

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what they meant when they chose the game...personally I'm sure they meant it as a compliment, BUT, the problem is how easily it can be spun in a negative way.

[Lost Highway]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

Everything is offensive to someone.

[UncleDick]

The Washington Wizards, again confronted by American mages, warlocks and sorcerers who find the team's name offensive, asked a judge to overturn a ruling that revoked the team's federal trademark protection.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

What do you guys think about stuff like this?

[bedolido]

The Washington Wizards, again confronted by American mages, warlocks and sorcerers who find the team's name offensive, asked a judge to overturn a ruling that revoked the team's federal trademark protection.

Bookmark this post of yours. It may become historical fact someday. Good point.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Well, THIS Redskin could really care less - The way I see it, sports teams that use American Indian concepts for names are helping continue the whole 'Warrior' spirit - it's the crybaby whiners who claim to be offended that have foresaken the warrior ethos, and are living hollow, empty lives...

Or, maybe I just choose my battles differently...

[freedumb2003]

The Washington Wizards, again confronted by American mages, warlocks and sorcerers who find the team's name offensive, asked a judge to overturn a ruling that revoked the team's federal trademark protection.

That suit was joined by Arwick.

[Chemist_Geek]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

Hmm, and the following isn't?

People name teams after animals and people who have qualities they respect, not disparage...

[bedolido]

thanks for your point of view. It's refreshing. I am Polish on my mom's side (100%) and Irish on my dad's (100%). Show my a movie about the irish and they'll be a lot of drinking, and who can forget the Polish jokes of the 70's (of course if you weren't from the 70's you wouldn't know them... some of my dad's Polish-ness coming out there in confusion).

[Chad Fairbanks]

You are welcome... I don't know too many other conservative indians (I prefer 'American Indian' over 'Native American' my self, but mainly because I consider myself an American First, Indian second...) but our number is growing - slowly, I admit, but someday... :0)

[cookcounty]

Oh boy, more lawyerly bonuses.

Fact: "Scotch Tape" ---the name was chosen because of the unfairly disparaging reputation of the scottish folk for being niggardly.

[Manic_Episode]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team..."

Perhaps to you, but my red skin is a bit thicker than that.
Sports teams use native americans as an ideal to aspire to, in this I am honored.

I wonder when swedish americans are going to sue the Minnesota Vikings for protraying their ancestry as savage brutes?

Such nonsense. Liberal PC BS.

[Chad Fairbanks]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...

Maybe to white people with a guilt complex, and Indians who have sold out their heritage to become wards of the 'Liberal Plantation'... ;0)

[Brookhaven]

The problem for the Washinton Redskins is that the trademark for the name has already be revoked. I think the revocation was put on hold until the appeal completed, but they will have a hard time getting the decision reversed. I can't see them staying with the Redskins knickname if they can't get the trademark reinstated. Just too much money at stake.

[cookcounty]

"The Washington Wizards......

At least our august senior legislators are no longer tormented by the losers called the "Washington Senators".

[NeoCaveman]

My gang uses the colors of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

losers

[cookcounty]

"People name teams after animals and people who have qualities they respect, not disparage..."

But what are those qualities in the case of the Chicago Cubs? --cuddliness? -----clawlessness? ---cheerful losers? ----cross-eyed vision?

[NeoCaveman]

while the Crips prefer Chief Wahoo (Cleveland Indians)

So that's why they are second only to the Yankees when it comes to MLB merchandising....All this time I thought we were America's team, turns out we are the Crips team.

[FreedomCalls]

If it is so offensive then what about Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull?

I do find those names offensive and wonder why most don't. When Europeans first encountered Native Americans they used the native name. Remember Hiawatha, Pocahontas, and Sequoya? But sometime in the 18th Century we started using translating those names. Tashunca-uitco became Crazy Horse and Tatanka-Iyotanka became Sitting Bull. Should Norman Schwarzkopf be Norman Blackhead? Chinese names are all names of objects, but we don't translate them, we use the sounds instead. Why do we still translate Indian names?

[Grando Calrissian]

Actually, we're winners!

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

On a side note: I sometimes cringe when reading FR, because it seems as though people don't always remember that conservatives who participate here come from all ethnic backgrounds. What is offensive to certain groups (black Americans, for example) is fairly obvious - but I don't think people are quite as dialed-in to what remarks are not welcomed by our American Indian friends.

Best just to ask, I guess.

Now I think I'll go get that "Fighting Whities" t-shirt I've been wanting for the past year or so. : )

[Dixiekraut]

I saw a documentary film on PBS'S series P.O.V.(Point of View) which featured a woman teacher at U. of Illinois who got this whole thing rolling a while back when she took her kids to an Illini basketball game...and was offended by the halftime antics of the school's "Indian" mascot....prancing around in "Indian" war bonnet,etc. She said that they had no right to appropriate her heritage ,culture,and RELIGION for purposes of their amusement.When confronted by outraged Illini fans at a protest later..."But we LOVE our Chief..." she said "Yeah,and Southerners loved their Darkies too." It made me try to think of the converse...what if a non-Catholic school for some reason adopted a Bihop as it's team logo/mascot...and at halftime it pranced around the place with a big Pope hat on and twirled an incense burner?Not a fair comparison?

[NeoCaveman]

Now I think I'll go get that "Fighting Whities" t-shirt I've been wanting for the past year or so. : )

Hey that could be the Redskins new name, that would be cool.

[Chad Fairbanks]

The names were translated because they are easier to say... Which would you want to have to say on a daily basis, "Haudenosaunee" or "Iroquis", "Souriquios" or "Mic Mac" etc... names were even harder ;0)

Whereas with Chinese, for example, would you rather call someone "Billy Chin Wong", or "Billy, Son of Chin, Son of Wong the Conqueror" ;0)

[jaj_dad]

"Redskins" *IS* a blatantly offensive name for the team...
Everything is offensive to someone.
I find that generalization very offensive


lol

[Chad Fairbanks]

Don't get me started on Mascots - they tend to be idiots. But as far as team names and such, I just don't see the big deal. It's not hurting me or my heritage in any way...

Chad "Chief Big Chief" Fairbanks

[Chad Fairbanks]

Now I think I'll go get that "Fighting Whities" t-shirt I've been wanting for the past year or so. : )

Cool... let me borrow it sometime, so I can see if any white people are offended by an indian wearing it, ok? ;0)

[TheOtherOne]

I guess we should rename our Indian Head Nickels and such...

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

LOL - okay. : )

[Chad Fairbanks]

And all the places named after various indian names, place names, etc... such as Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Illinois, Miami etc... then we can get into the names of mountains, rivers, cities, towns, streams, colleges, lakes... on and on and on...

My Indian Bretheren, and their White Liberal Masters need to grow up, and get a life ;0)

[XJarhead]

I undestood the Washington "Bullets" changing their name to the "Wizards" (dumb name in my opinion).

Kind of an interesting story behind that. There were a lot of objections to the name "Washington Bullets" because of a belief that the title was suggestive of violence, gunplay, and criminal activity.

So they proposed changing the name to the "Baltimore Bullets."

Heh-heh.

[bedolido]

So they proposed changing the name to the "Baltimore Bullets."

Brilliant! lol

[Chad Fairbanks]

ROTFL...

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

LOL - very good.

[Chemist_Geek]

But what are those qualities in the case of the Chicago Cubs? --cuddliness? -----clawlessness? ---cheerful losers? ----cross-eyed vision?

Good question, and I'm trying to figure out what is so noble and powerful about a piston...

[Chad Fairbanks]

Good question, and I'm trying to figure out what is so noble and powerful about a piston...

A Piston is a phallic symbol, which scared the feminists so badly, that they started eating bananas as if they were ears of corn?

Hope that helps ;0)