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To: vp_cal
Pat Buchanan is a bigot, bigoted against immigrants. Boy he talks about halting immigration from the 'third world'. Excuse me? He should take a look in the mirror Mr. Irish Catholic. Back in the day, Italians were considered 'third world' undesirables and my mother is from the Caribbean, Trinidad which is not a third world country but it's not the US either. Both are highly educated. ALL AMERICANS are immigrants. He is so classic in blaming the ills of a place on immigration. This was the tactic used in the early days to restrict immigration from 'certain countries'. Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.
9 posted on 07/30/2003 12:20:23 AM PDT by cyborg (i'm a mutt american)
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To: cyborg
Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

Nonsense. There are three million illegals in LA county. When they get sick they go to county hospital emergency rooms who are required to treat them. How to you think hospitals cover the cost of treating them? They have to raise the cost to the paying customers, or take it from tax dollars. If you don't think this is happening, you are just plain ignorant. You also seem to have difficulty with the concept of illegal vs. legal immigrants.

10 posted on 07/30/2003 12:39:15 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: cyborg
ALL AMERICANS are immigrants

That a keen insight. I haven't heard that 10-20 thousand times before. It is also very relevent to the debate as to whether or not its a good thing to have millions of illegale pouring into California.

13 posted on 07/30/2003 12:52:08 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: cyborg
Mexico's controls her borders-their southern border is sealed shut. Are the they racist also? Must you resort to name calling?

Is it okay with you if 40 million Americans were to invade Mexico? What do you think the response would be from the Mexicans toward the GRINGO'S?

People with your mindset think that we Americans who have been here for 150 years, owe it immigrants today to keep the borders open to people who have no interest in being American. That's the difference. My ancestors became American-they didn't ask for anything from America.

Are you also one of these people who believe those who can't get work in a recession should have to compete for work against non-Americans?

The middle class is getting killed by outsourcing and its clear our leaders don't see the Tsunami coming. Mark my words: If voters get a choice, they will put in office the first guy who puts a stop to all of this. Its getting out of hand; espcially when the economy isn't producing decent jobs. Go ahead call me names too. 70 % of Americans agree with me on immigration; call them racist also.
14 posted on 07/30/2003 12:57:03 AM PDT by Finalapproach29er ("Don't shoot Mongo, you'll only make him mad.")
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To: cyborg
WE ARE NOT A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRANTS, WE ARE A COUNTRY FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS. LAST POLL I LOOKED AT OVER 80% OF THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE USA WERE BORN HERE.

A COUNTRY FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS IS NOT THE SAME AS ONE BEING INVADED BY ILLEGALS.

WHO WILL STOP THE INVASION FROM THE SOUTH? WE ARE LOUSING OUR LANGUAGE, OUR CULTURE, OUR SOVEREIGNTY. ONLY A LOONY MARXIST LIBERAL WOULD SAY ILLEGAL IMMIGRATIONS IS OK.

24 posted on 07/30/2003 2:45:13 AM PDT by Exton1
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To: cyborg
You missed the point of the column. Buchanan is right. The "Irish " and other newcomers did not create the same
issues at all.
27 posted on 07/30/2003 6:38:07 AM PDT by oldironsides
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To: cyborg; vp_cal
Dear Cyborg, Do not mix immigration apples and oranges. You cannot compare yesterday's European immigration with today's Third World immigration.

1.) European immigrants came here in a more-or- less semi-orderly and completely LEGAL process through controlled ports of entry. Ever heard of Ellis Island? Yes, they were coming from backward regions, however at the time, America was horse-drawn agricultural economy. My maternal grandfather came to Maine legally in 1905, after serving King and country, and ran a livery stable. Becoming a citizen, he could not vote in Maine until 1914, after he demonstrated literacy in English. This cannot compare with the present situation vis-a-vis illegal resident aliens, or even legal immigrants.

2.) Since you discuss Italian and Irish immigration, look at the numbers: 6 Million and 3 Million, over a 100-year period. The numbers of legal European immigrants are simply dwarfed by the numbers of illegals who have poured in since the late 1960's. And as bvackward as those immigrants may have been, they had valid names, valid passports, went through health inspections, and were integrated slowly into OUR system.

3.) Your humanitarian outlook is commendable, as is your stance against anti-hispanic racism. No rational person blames an illegal alien for leaving the hellhole that is Mexico. However, no rational person can condone the massive invasion of this country by illegal means, either. A sane American government would stem this hispanic tide by fostering development in Latin America, not by giving this country up to illegal immigration. Look at it in microcosm: invite all the unfortunates in your town to dine at your table and live in your house. You won't have that house for long, even if you put them to work.

4.)Whatever Pat Buchanan is, and he may well be a bigot, he's no idiot. Which is what anyone who cannot see what illegal immigration has done to California might be. Go look at Watts or Compton. The people living there are Americans, who have in many cases, been frozen out of employment in California. Why? Among other reasons, they don't speak Spanish.

31 posted on 07/30/2003 7:20:38 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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To: cyborg
Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

As a native Californian, with 20 years of experience working in the Healthcare System, I must disagree. Not only are the majority of patients at many metropolitan hospitals monolingual, the forms must be printed multilingually. Interpreters must be hired. Instead of the best person for the job being hired, the person who speaks Spanish the best is hired.

The most popular names for the past sevaral years here in Santa Barbara County are "Juan" and "Maria". Not only are Mexicans more likely to have their children on the dole, they have more of them.

At my children's school, the entire group of kids who receive "free lunch" are Mexicans. Mexicans are the only people living in this county who can qualify because a family needs to make around $25,000 per year or less to qualify. No one can live in Santa Barbara, or most cities in California, for $25,000 a year. How do they do it? By being paid under the table, working for cash.

32 posted on 07/30/2003 7:29:02 AM PDT by Zevonismymuse
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To: cyborg; Willie Green; Black Agnes; Regulator; Brownie74; glc1173@aol.com; A CA Guy; CoryLund; ...
Pat Buchanan is a bigot, bigoted against immigrants.

He rails mostly on illegal aliens.... you know, criminal leeches. They need to be deported, one and all.

Boy he talks about halting immigration from the 'third world'. Excuse me?

Immigration is a privilege, not a right. It's destructive to take on the worst the Third World has to offer, don't you think? High standards and striuct limits on immigration should be the norm.... not the case since Bubba was elected. Unfortunately the lunacy continues.

ALL AMERICANS are immigrants.

That's an absurd statement. 90% of Americans were born here. We are not 'immigrants'.

He is so classic in blaming the ills of a place on immigration.

Look at California.... packed with illegal aliens and on the verge of collapse. Blaming the messenger is not a good way to attack the problem. Putting the military on the borders, deporting millions of sponging illegals, and getting rid of this latest batch of smarmy, lying, constitution-violating, vote pandering, sell-out politicians is, however. Don't blame Buchanan. He's right.

36 posted on 07/30/2003 8:12:19 AM PDT by Tancredo Fan (Stop the invasion. Put the military on the borders, round up illegals, and tell Fox to shove off.)
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To: cyborg
Buchanan is exactly correct. The third world rejects we are getting hav not been screened for their abilities or health the way the imiigrants from europe were "back in the day".

Not all Americans are immigrants, we may be the descendants of immigrants but we are not immigrants by definition.

It is not a myth, illegals are destroying this country.
37 posted on 07/30/2003 8:27:52 AM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: cyborg
"ALL AMERICANS are immigrants"

I am not an imigrant, neither was my father, grand father, great grand father, or great great grand father. There is certainly more here now than the deer and the antelope. There is what native Americans built through generations, and we resent a corrupt government that puts everything we are, have built, and enacted, up for grabs to any marxist that strolls across our open borders.

We have a duty and obligation to the Constitution of the United States, not to allow it to perish under an onslaught of third world racist ignorance that hates all things of european extraction and continues to vote their bellies.

38 posted on 07/30/2003 8:49:18 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: cyborg
When the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. were coming there was very little government welfare. What welfare that existed (mainly public education) was aggressively assimilationist. At the time America was moving from an agrarian to an industrial society and thus needed unskilled labor. The "failure" rate for immigrants was about 25%. About a quarter of all arrivals eventually went back home because they were unable to make a living (or maybe they just missed home).

Now we have a massive welfare state and it is actively "multi-culturist" (separatist). The needs of the economy have moved from brawn work to brain work. We are exporting unskilled jobs but still importing unskilled labor. If they can not find work, immigrants do not go home, they stay on welfare.

It is true that many early immigrants were treated harshly by people with overblown fears. However, the Irish *did* give us the corrupt Democratic big city machines in New York City and Chicago. It is fairly recently, 150 years after the early arrivals, that Irish Americans have split their vote more evenly left to right, Democrat to Republican. The massive influx of (mainly) Mexicans will have a similar effect on a country that can afford it less.

While it is true that, numerically speaking, more natives use government healthcare, the proportion of illegals using government healthcare is much higher. Why import more tax-spenders when we all ready have enough here right now.
44 posted on 07/30/2003 9:31:51 AM PDT by evilC
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To: cyborg
You wrote:

"Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources."

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Nope....it's not a myth. It is a fact. Illegal aliens and their sometimes legal offspring..( which is another can of worms... :) are causing unparalleled huge monetary strains on too many counties and cities health-care infrastructures.

fwiw-

49 posted on 07/30/2003 11:33:17 AM PDT by Osage Orange (The Clinton's are as crooked as a barrel of fish hooks.)
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To: cyborg
Pat Buchanan is a bigot, bigoted against immigrants.

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Demonizing the opposition is a very common liberal tactic. Is the liberal LA Times bigoted? Try reading the below article.

Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

Again, even the LA Times disagrees with this ludicrous statement. See below:

Undermining American workers:(Illegal Immigrants Are Pulling Wages Down - Pushing Taxes Higher)

51 posted on 07/30/2003 11:55:30 AM PDT by gubamyster
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