Who killed California? Pat Buchanan warns fed immigration stupidity causing damage

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Wednesday, July 30, 2003 | Pat Buchanan

[JohnHuang2]

With Gov. Gray Davis facing recall, a budget $38 billion in deficit, and a bond rating dropped three notches by Standard & Poor's to near junk-bond status, the lowest of all 50 states, the Golden State is no more.

Who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs?

Certainly, Davis, who misled voters about the gravity of his budget crisis in 2002, and won re-election by demonizing his GOP rivals, deserves his 20 percent approval rating. But Gray Davis did not kill California.

The United States government did. For what killed California as the golden land was massive and unrestricted immigration from the Third World, an unrepelled invasion from Mexico, and a failure to protect the U.S. manufacturing base and the wages of America's workers.

During and after World War II, California became a bastion of our defense, aerospace, auto and TV industries. Hundreds of thousands were hired to become the highest-paid manufacturing workers on earth, giving California the world's highest standard of living. The average California wage once stood at 130 percent of the average U.S. wage.

In the 1970s and 1980s, however, Japan, a free rider on America's defense, began to engage in predatory trade, attacking and killing, one by one, U.S. industries and capturing U.S. markets with subsidized exports.

California suffered first. Our TV industry was wiped out. Our auto industry was reeling when Ronald Reagan stepped in to impose quotas on Japanese cars. Reagan also intervened to save the semiconductor industry, Big Steel and Harley-Davidson. Unlike today's free-trade fanatics, Ronald Reagan put America first.

But it was under Bush-Clinton-Bush that California was irrevocably sacrificed to the gods of the Global Economy.

During Bush I's term, millions of Mexicans began to flee north to seek jobs and take advantage of the health care, welfare and free education American citizens provided for their people. For one-third of the illegals, California became the destination of choice.

What the U.S. government should have done was obvious, and was demanded by Americans: Enforce our immigration laws, halt the invasion, restrict immigration from the Third World. But America's politicians – out of fear of being branded xenophobic and to curry favor with Big Business, which benefits from an endless supply of low-wage labor – did almost nothing to protect America.

Californians tried to defend their state. As illegals poured in by the hundreds of thousands yearly, they passed Proposition 187, denying social welfare benefits to illegal aliens who had broken the law and broken into the United States.

The open-borders coalition, repudiated and routed, ran to a federal judge, who annulled the voters' victory. Davis then refused to appeal the overturning of 187 to the Supreme Court. Hispanic voters rewarded him in 2002, and California state and local budgets continued to hemorrhage.

By the 1990s, an exodus of taxpayers had begun. Fed up with being fleeced to subsidize illegal aliens, Californians began leaving for Nevada, Idaho, Arizona and Colorado. Two million native-born Californians left the state in the 1990s, as immigrants, legal and illegal, sent poverty rates soaring in Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino and Orange counties.

This, then, is what killed California:

First, open borders. By failing to enforce our immigration laws, America now hosts 31 million legal immigrants and their children and 10 million illegals, most of them net tax consumers. California got the lion's share.

Second, global free trade and the trade deficits it produced, now running at an annual rate of $562 billion in May. This has killed millions of manufacturing jobs, as thousands of companies closed factories here and shifted plants to Mexico, Asia and China.

The Third Worldization of California is now far advanced. Yet those responsible, Bush Republicans as well as Clinton Democrats, still cannot see what they have done to our country.

But what is happening in California is not confined to California. It is happening across America. Unless we elect a president who will enforce our immigration laws and defend our borders, unless we find a Congress that will jettison the free-trade madness that is denuding America of her manufacturing, what has happened to California will happen here.

President Bush appears oblivious to it all – but then, so did his father before him.

[JohnHuang2]

Wednesday, July 30, 2003

Quote of the Day by goldstategop

[jagrmeister]

Pat's too dense to realize that the newspapers only run his editorials when they can be used to attack the Republican position or excuse Democrats. Oh, of course, it's not Grey Davis's fault...it's the federal government's fault. These liberal editorial boards laugh at Pat 90% of the time and ignore his columns; then drag him out whenever it's convenient. It's pathetic the way he lets himself get used.

[vp_cal]

>By the 1990s, an exodus of taxpayers had begun. Fed up >with being fleeced to subsidize illegal aliens, >Californians began leaving for Nevada, Idaho, Arizona ....

This guy needs to do his research. Alot of people
came to California in the 90's and most of them were legal-
white, asian, hispanic, black. I know because i was there;
they moved from other states because of the great new economy. So I really do not know what Pat is thinking.

Illegal immigration is a problem, but most of the welfare and entitlement benefits are utlized by citizens of this country. If the American citizens did not want these programs, they would be canceled regardless of what the illegal mexicans think.

[nathanbedford]

This dodges the question of whether Bucannan is right or wrong in his analysis.

Without commenting on his views on trade policy, I believe he is largely right about the baleful effects of unrestricted legal or illegal immigration.

I believe he is wrong or at least incomplete in this statement:

out of fear of being branded xenophobic and to curry favor with Big Business, which benefits from an endless supply of low-wage labor – did almost nothing to protect America.

It is not being labellled "xenophobic" which paralizes politicians but the terror of being labelled racist and losing the hispanic vote. The tyranny of reverse racism threatens our national integrity.

[Cacophonous]

He's syndicated. Means newspapers and other media outlets, contract through his syndicate, to run his columns. They can't read them first and then decide if they want to run them.

[doosee]

It is not being labellled "xenophobic" which paralizes politicians but the terror of being labelled racist and losing the hispanic vote. The tyranny of reverse racism threatens our national integrity

California is now Mexifornia. The only bright spot in the entire state was Silicon Valley and the .com bust has ruined that. I think Pat Buchanan is right on with this article. He forgot to mention the OJ trial and Judge Ito. Where else but Mexifornia..

[Mo1]

Unless we elect a president who will enforce our immigration laws and defend our borders, unless we find a Congress that will jettison the free-trade madness that is denuding America of her manufacturing, what has happened to California will happen here.

Gee Pat, are you trying to say that you are going try to run AGAIN?

[CWOJackson]

Gee, and I thought many years of liberal politics would be partially responsible for California's problems.

[cyborg]

Pat Buchanan is a bigot, bigoted against immigrants. Boy he talks about halting immigration from the 'third world'. Excuse me? He should take a look in the mirror Mr. Irish Catholic. Back in the day, Italians were considered 'third world' undesirables and my mother is from the Caribbean, Trinidad which is not a third world country but it's not the US either. Both are highly educated. ALL AMERICANS are immigrants. He is so classic in blaming the ills of a place on immigration. This was the tactic used in the early days to restrict immigration from 'certain countries'. Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

[Hugin]

Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

Nonsense. There are three million illegals in LA county. When they get sick they go to county hospital emergency rooms who are required to treat them. How to you think hospitals cover the cost of treating them? They have to raise the cost to the paying customers, or take it from tax dollars. If you don't think this is happening, you are just plain ignorant. You also seem to have difficulty with the concept of illegal vs. legal immigrants.

[cyborg]

I am not ignorant. I am looking at three million illegals versus many more millions of Americans. I know the business of illegal immigrants in emergency rooms are going on, but I think many more millions of Americans not paying their medical bills is more of a strain. Also, I have no difficulty differentiating between illegal and legal immigrants. It's Pat Buchanan that has that problem. Read the article again yourself and you will see that he lumps in both legal and illegal immigrants.

[vp_cal]

the problem is not with the illegal immigrants- the problem is with us. They do not hold a gun to our heads while we subsidize their free medical care. We do this of our own free will.

If you hand out cash at the mall and people take it, who is to blame for your lack of money- you or the taking your money?

We need to take responsibility for our own failed policies.

[Rodney King]

ALL AMERICANS are immigrants

That a keen insight. I haven't heard that 10-20 thousand times before. It is also very relevent to the debate as to whether or not its a good thing to have millions of illegale pouring into California.

[Finalapproach29er]

Mexico's controls her borders-their southern border is sealed shut. Are the they racist also? Must you resort to name calling?

Is it okay with you if 40 million Americans were to invade Mexico? What do you think the response would be from the Mexicans toward the GRINGO'S?

People with your mindset think that we Americans who have been here for 150 years, owe it immigrants today to keep the borders open to people who have no interest in being American. That's the difference. My ancestors became American-they didn't ask for anything from America.

Are you also one of these people who believe those who can't get work in a recession should have to compete for work against non-Americans?

The middle class is getting killed by outsourcing and its clear our leaders don't see the Tsunami coming. Mark my words: If voters get a choice, they will put in office the first guy who puts a stop to all of this. Its getting out of hand; espcially when the economy isn't producing decent jobs. Go ahead call me names too. 70 % of Americans agree with me on immigration; call them racist also.

[cyborg]

I was more referring ti Pat Buchanan's questionable insertion of LEGAL immigrants. Of course, I do not think millions of illegal immigrants pouring into California is a good idea.

[cyborg]

I did not call anyone any names. Pat Buchanan is a bigot. "Mr. Amen Corner" never misses an opportunity to be one when discussing immigration, and especially Jews.

You do not know me, or my mindset. You also do not know my ancestors either. My father came over to this country from Italy and my family name is registered in Ellis Island. My mother came over here from the Caribbean to seek a better life for herself. Neither asked for anything from America. Legal immigration.

[CWOJackson]

"...restrict immigration from the Third World."

Yes, it would seem that pat isn't just referring to illegal immigrants...he doesn't seem to like those pesky third world types, legel or illegal. But hey, the Euro types are okay...you know, like the French and Germans.

Well, some people used to warn America what would happen if we let those Irish in.

[cyborg]

That's what I was really referring to. I am sorry that some FReepers interpreted my severe commentary on Pat Buchanan and his views as being pro-illegal immigration. I am well aware that some of the things I've said are also said by liberals. However, when I watch films about the early European immigrants, you hear the same thing.

[cyborg]

That's what I was really referring to. I am sorry that some FReepers interpreted my severe commentary on Pat Buchanan and his views as being pro-illegal immigration. I am well aware that some of the things I've said are also said by liberals. However, when I watch films about the early European immigrants, you hear the same thing.

[junta]

Clever use of the cliches give yourself and A. The Third World is its people and their cultures and its not the result of the white man throwin down some serious bad mojo upon the innocent people of color as some lefty day dreamers think.

[cyborg]

sorry for the duplicate! maybe my PC is trying to tell me to go to sleep....

[junta]

Clever use of the cliches give yourself and A. The Third World is its people and their cultures and its not the result of the white man throwin down some serious bad mojo upon the innocent people of color as some lefty day dreamers think.

[CWOJackson]

I've never really liked the term third world myself.

They are uneducated and without morals. They are lazy, shiftless and prone to crime. You can't understand a word they say. You allow one in and soon they have extended families living in one home...and they breed like rabbits. They ruin any community they settle in, slowly forcing out real American's. They're willing to work for substandard wages, taking jobs away from decent, honest hard working Americans. And look at the so-called religion they follow...it's not Christian. If we allow them into this country it will destroy the American way of life.

Am I talking about the Irish, the Italians, the Haitians, the Poles, the Germans, the Chinese, the Vietnamese, the Yemenese, the Ethiopians, the Mexicans, the...

That's the problem for me, the same things has been said about most ethnic groups to come over to the promised (for some only) land. Heck, Ireland was considered third world for many years while France is considered an enlightened nation. For many years any people who practised Catholicism were automatically considered third world, while many Ethiopians practise the most unchanged Christian faith in existence.

In the Alaska territory it was law that Chinese people were not allowed to immigrate, Fillipino were (the same popular opinion regulated Chinese cannery workers to manual labor only, whereas the Fillipino was capable of understanding more complex tasks was allowed to maintain the equipment)...and that was the opinion of an enlightened, non-third world people...Americans.

America is also it's people, or more properly, the sum of it's peoples.

[Exton1]

WE ARE NOT A COUNTRY OF IMMIGRANTS, WE ARE A COUNTRY FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS. LAST POLL I LOOKED AT OVER 80% OF THE PEOPLE LIVING IN THE USA WERE BORN HERE.

A COUNTRY FOUNDED BY IMMIGRANTS IS NOT THE SAME AS ONE BEING INVADED BY ILLEGALS.

WHO WILL STOP THE INVASION FROM THE SOUTH? WE ARE LOUSING OUR LANGUAGE, OUR CULTURE, OUR SOVEREIGNTY. ONLY A LOONY MARXIST LIBERAL WOULD SAY ILLEGAL IMMIGRATIONS IS OK.

[FreePaul]

I read your post several times. You seem to have left out the most important part of our current immigration problem. All of the groups of immigrants you mention used to come here legally. Coming here wasn't a guarantee of admittance. Admittance was not a guarantee of welfare programs.

We are suffering from migration of people from a country that is struggling to maintain its third world status. Unless we elect politicians who are willing to uphold the existing laws we will be part of the compromise. We will help Mexico raise their country to third world status and we will become part of the third world. It's happening in small communities here now.

[oldironsides]

You missed the point of the column. Buchanan is right. The "Irish " and other newcomers did not create the same
issues at all.

[FITZ]

My mother came over here from the Caribbean to seek a better life for herself. Neither asked for anything from America. Legal immigration.

Immigration with a giant welfare state doesn't make much sense because of course you're going to draw the world's welfare types especially if they don't have welfare in their home countries --like Mexico. Illegals aren't the only problem either, in this area one of the highest group for immigration are those over 65 being brought in by legalized ---usually the amnestied from the 80s to get a comfortable taxpayer provided retirement here --- it's shocking how many of those getting on SSI and Medicaid never worked a day in their life in this country and didn't immigrate until their senior years.

[FITZ]

There should have been no immigration after Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society".

[Imagine]

(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY: start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand.)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every 6 months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the FS attends full-time school. Foreign students shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason, including temporary visitor, school or work visas, shall not be eligible for citizenship as a circumstance of birth, nor shall the parents or persons related to the parents of new born children be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.

[Kenny Bunk]

Dear Cyborg, Do not mix immigration apples and oranges. You cannot compare yesterday's European immigration with today's Third World immigration.

1.) European immigrants came here in a more-or- less semi-orderly and completely LEGAL process through controlled ports of entry. Ever heard of Ellis Island? Yes, they were coming from backward regions, however at the time, America was horse-drawn agricultural economy. My maternal grandfather came to Maine legally in 1905, after serving King and country, and ran a livery stable. Becoming a citizen, he could not vote in Maine until 1914, after he demonstrated literacy in English. This cannot compare with the present situation vis-a-vis illegal resident aliens, or even legal immigrants.

2.) Since you discuss Italian and Irish immigration, look at the numbers: 6 Million and 3 Million, over a 100-year period. The numbers of legal European immigrants are simply dwarfed by the numbers of illegals who have poured in since the late 1960's. And as bvackward as those immigrants may have been, they had valid names, valid passports, went through health inspections, and were integrated slowly into OUR system.

3.) Your humanitarian outlook is commendable, as is your stance against anti-hispanic racism. No rational person blames an illegal alien for leaving the hellhole that is Mexico. However, no rational person can condone the massive invasion of this country by illegal means, either. A sane American government would stem this hispanic tide by fostering development in Latin America, not by giving this country up to illegal immigration. Look at it in microcosm: invite all the unfortunates in your town to dine at your table and live in your house. You won't have that house for long, even if you put them to work.

4.)Whatever Pat Buchanan is, and he may well be a bigot, he's no idiot. Which is what anyone who cannot see what illegal immigration has done to California might be. Go look at Watts or Compton. The people living there are Americans, who have in many cases, been frozen out of employment in California. Why? Among other reasons, they don't speak Spanish.

[Zevonismymuse]

Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources.

As a native Californian, with 20 years of experience working in the Healthcare System, I must disagree. Not only are the majority of patients at many metropolitan hospitals monolingual, the forms must be printed multilingually. Interpreters must be hired. Instead of the best person for the job being hired, the person who speaks Spanish the best is hired.

The most popular names for the past sevaral years here in Santa Barbara County are "Juan" and "Maria". Not only are Mexicans more likely to have their children on the dole, they have more of them.

At my children's school, the entire group of kids who receive "free lunch" are Mexicans. Mexicans are the only people living in this county who can qualify because a family needs to make around $25,000 per year or less to qualify. No one can live in Santa Barbara, or most cities in California, for $25,000 a year. How do they do it? By being paid under the table, working for cash.

[Final Authority]

I would love to see Pat run again, with Jay Severin at his side advising as he did last time when the GOP last lost. When the tough questions are asked it becomes obvious that because of the rush to globalism and so-called free trade with the third world, Americans and the American life-style and values come last.

Severin has already stated that if GWB wins it will not be because of his vote. I was a contributor and supporter but because of his new liberal policies and his decision to let the manufacturing base of the USA whither I will not support GWB either. Fix the borders (enforce the law per the oath of office), and level the playing field upward with respect to wages by applying tarriffs on imports, would be a good start in the re-election effort.

[skeeter]

Our auto industry was reeling when Ronald Reagan stepped in to impose quotas on Japanese cars. Reagan also intervened to save the semiconductor industry, Big Steel and Harley-Davidson. Unlike today's free-trade fanatics, Ronald Reagan put America first.

Important to remember as the Free Traders love to think of themselves as heirs to the Reagan Legacy.

[Capt.YankeeMike]

Its already happening here, in the great frozen tundra of Indianapolis, where people said mexicans wouldnt want to live, because its too cold! We have 440% growth in Marion County in hispanics, and we have turned a 2 billion dollar surplus in the state budget back in 1996 into a 4 billion dollar deficit. The state/city hospitals are full to overflowing, and are on the verge of complete meltdown/bankruptcy due to all the hispanics who are flooding the maternity rooms for free babies and free emergency room treatment for minor ailments. They are like cockroaches, invading and devouring section 8, WIC, AFDC, and free health care by the billions of $$. Ten years ago, we had no hispanic population to speak of, now they control most of the west side of the city, God only knows how many of them there are, estimates are from 250,000 to 400,000!!! In a city that only has 1.2M total population, but no one knows for sure because they live 20 to an apartment, and dont speak english and dont answer the census takers. We are being overun, and the only place tax payers will be able to go is offshore....

[Tancredo Fan]

Pat Buchanan is a bigot, bigoted against immigrants.

He rails mostly on illegal aliens.... you know, criminal leeches. They need to be deported, one and all.

Boy he talks about halting immigration from the 'third world'. Excuse me?

Immigration is a privilege, not a right. It's destructive to take on the worst the Third World has to offer, don't you think? High standards and striuct limits on immigration should be the norm.... not the case since Bubba was elected. Unfortunately the lunacy continues.

ALL AMERICANS are immigrants.

That's an absurd statement. 90% of Americans were born here. We are not 'immigrants'.

He is so classic in blaming the ills of a place on immigration.

Look at California.... packed with illegal aliens and on the verge of collapse. Blaming the messenger is not a good way to attack the problem. Putting the military on the borders, deporting millions of sponging illegals, and getting rid of this latest batch of smarmy, lying, constitution-violating, vote pandering, sell-out politicians is, however. Don't blame Buchanan. He's right.

[Bikers4Bush]

Buchanan is exactly correct. The third world rejects we are getting hav not been screened for their abilities or health the way the imiigrants from europe were "back in the day".

Not all Americans are immigrants, we may be the descendants of immigrants but we are not immigrants by definition.

It is not a myth, illegals are destroying this country.

[MissAmericanPie]

"ALL AMERICANS are immigrants"

I am not an imigrant, neither was my father, grand father, great grand father, or great great grand father. There is certainly more here now than the deer and the antelope. There is what native Americans built through generations, and we resent a corrupt government that puts everything we are, have built, and enacted, up for grabs to any marxist that strolls across our open borders.

We have a duty and obligation to the Constitution of the United States, not to allow it to perish under an onslaught of third world racist ignorance that hates all things of european extraction and continues to vote their bellies.

[jetson]

CON: No aid, no immigrants
By Steven Caudillo
Features Editor

Gov. Pete Wilson further divided the people of California, with his recent executive order which cut funding to "undocumented immigrants."

However, I disagree with his decision because it is another clear example of blatant racism as he continues to attack children and the poor. This action was triggered by President Bill Clinton's signing of a new federal welfare reform act with which I disagree as well.

Since I disagree with both Clinton and Wilson, I am pleased to admit that I have little faith in the Democratic party and the Republican party. There is a clear plan to virtually eliminate an ethnic group, and to pit all the poor against one another. This kind of legislation has not existed since the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 - when this country tried to annihilate Chinese immigrants.

The result of the Chinese Exclusion Act is obvious. It did not happen. The Chinese are still here in the United States.

It was clear to the vast majority of whites that immigration was badly needed for the purpose of "slave labor." Thus the need to allow Japanese, Filipinos and Mexicans to pick the food that is set on the table.

Maybe our wealthy legislators should take a look at themselves and the rich they represent, and realize that welfare reform does not start at the bottom but rather at the top. Corporate America is on welfare and receives more than its share of "subsidies." You see, the government refers to welfare for the rich as "subsidies." Even the politicians work the system in a manner that eventually allows them to collect welfare. They make a bundle after they retire, and why not? They make the guidelines to pay themselves. However, the "welfare" label does not seem to apply to them.

This country is determined to stop immigration but the focus is on the Mexican immigrant. Legislators running for office are quick to focus on the U.S.-Mexico border. Politicians refuse to understand that immigrants from Mexico are not the problem with this country. It is their lack of leadership and inability to address the real issues that have caused the economic turmoil that exists in America today.

Wilson is playing into the hands of those who claim to be saving California. What is the real plan? To punish people who come to this country to make a better life for themselves?

Proposition 187, affirmative action, welfare reform and English only laws are direct attacks on Mexicans. People forget that La Raza is responsible for cooking meals, washing dishes, child care, cleaning homes, working fields, washing cars, mowing lawns, building new homes, and they stand on the corners of freeway exits selling oranges and flowers. I have yet to see a Mexican on a corner or at a freeway exit with a sign begging for meal money.

The Democrats and Republicans, (including all the Pete Wilson's out there) should realize that Mexican immigrants are here to work and not to destroy the economy.

Furthermore, no human being is "illegal." Health care and education are basic human rights.

It is time that people realize the two-party political system is racist and on a rampage to eliminate human rights.

---

[cyborg]

I should have known better than to post in a immigration thread on FR. I should not get offended when Pat Buchanan assumes that legal immigrants from 'third world' countries are somehow sub-standard to PB's favorite kind of immigrants? I should not be able to speak up and correct Pat Buchanan when he refers to LEGAL IMMIGRATION almost in the same style as illegal immigration? So now legal immigration is somehow undesirable because he thinks it's a bunch of uneducated minorities looking to sponge off the government? He is sadly mistaken and so are the FReepers who believe him. I do not believe in illegal immigration. I think in not cracking down on illegall immigration that the government created this mess for themselves. I agree with Pat on his stance on illegal immigration BUT he also has a problem with legal immigration. Not all immigrants from the third world are unedcucated, not even are all minorities. Look at the Cubans. Is Cuba is a first world, uber-white christian society? No but I know many Cubans and they're very patriotic, some more than a few bigoted Americans born into it. I stand by my statement by all Americans are immigrants, or are here because their ancestors were immigrants. That is not say I am making any excuses for ILLEGAL immigration, but you can't turn around and say no more legal immigration. Suppose someone said to your family when they came here? My father is a first generation American, he became a citizen when he was a boy. Italians were severely discriminated against, even moreso than many black people born here in that day. The government practiced the same principles that Pat espouses. Limiting immigration based on ethnicity. My mother came here as a guest worker from the West Indies in the early sixties, so I have a lot of information, clarity and perspective when coming to this issue.

That's all I have to say. I am not going to go around and around about illegal immigration, but I think Pat B. is a bigot and too bad if some FReepers don't like that. If anyone WANTS to argue with me then FReepmail me. Will be happy to discuss it off-post.

[headsonpikes]

"Health care and education are basic human rights."

The problem in California is the belief in just this sort of good old American Socialism.

Not Mexicans.

[hedgetrimmer]

"Health care and education are basic human rights."

Knock knock, UN calling....

[hedgetrimmer]

Its interesting. How many hundreds of years does your family have to live in America, to not be called an immigrant by these people?

[evilC]

When the Irish, Italians, Poles, etc. were coming there was very little government welfare. What welfare that existed (mainly public education) was aggressively assimilationist. At the time America was moving from an agrarian to an industrial society and thus needed unskilled labor. The "failure" rate for immigrants was about 25%. About a quarter of all arrivals eventually went back home because they were unable to make a living (or maybe they just missed home).

Now we have a massive welfare state and it is actively "multi-culturist" (separatist). The needs of the economy have moved from brawn work to brain work. We are exporting unskilled jobs but still importing unskilled labor. If they can not find work, immigrants do not go home, they stay on welfare.

It is true that many early immigrants were treated harshly by people with overblown fears. However, the Irish *did* give us the corrupt Democratic big city machines in New York City and Chicago. It is fairly recently, 150 years after the early arrivals, that Irish Americans have split their vote more evenly left to right, Democrat to Republican. The massive influx of (mainly) Mexicans will have a similar effect on a country that can afford it less.

While it is true that, numerically speaking, more natives use government healthcare, the proportion of illegals using government healthcare is much higher. Why import more tax-spenders when we all ready have enough here right now.

[CWOJackson]

Ah, but pat lumps in legal immigrants, from what he deems third world countries, with the illegal variety.

[BureaucratusMaximus]

cyborg is deeply saddened.

Pat is right.

[BillyBoy]

>> Gee, and I thought many years of liberal politics would be partially responsible for California's problems. <<

Who do you think ELECTED the politicians responcible for the "many years of liberal politics". Hint: Loretta Sanchez didn't get many votes from English-speaking, taxpaying American citizens.

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"If the American citizens did not want these programs, they would be canceled regardless of what the illegal mexicans think. "

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Ummmmm......I don't think so. A large majority of Americans do not support partial-birth abortion. And federal monies fund them.

A majority of Americans think that the I.R.S. is a giant Rube Goldberg type of affair. And we never get the change we need there.

A majority of Californian's voted to restrict illegal aliens from receiving state benefits. And that was deemed by the CA courts to be illegal.

A majority of Americans believe that they should have some control over where their SSI monies go...And they don't have that.

I suppose I could think of some other examples.......but I'm sure you get my drift.

FWIW-

[Osage Orange]

You wrote:

"Please... it's a myth that illegals are crumbling our health care when it's really man Americans on welfare and also being fat and unhealthy that is straining our resources."

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Nope....it's not a myth. It is a fact. Illegal aliens and their sometimes legal offspring..( which is another can of worms... :) are causing unparalleled huge monetary strains on too many counties and cities health-care infrastructures.

fwiw-

[gubamyster]

the problem is not with the illegal immigrants- the problem is with us. They do not hold a gun to our heads while we subsidize their free medical care. We do this of our own free will.

They may not hold a gun to our heads, but the rath of the IRS and the Franchise Tax Board is just as close. Please let me know how I can legally opt out of paying Fed & State taxes & I'll be the first person.

Oh, but we vote for these politicians, you say. Well we passed prop. 187 & it did us no good. Let me know who the next pol is who wants to end social services for illegals, & I'll be voting for them.