Worried about a music lawsuit? Check here

The Houston Chronicle ^ | July 26, 2003 | Dwight Silverman

[Pern]

Nervous music file-swappers who worry they may be on the list of 871 people targeted by recording industry subpoenas now have a Web site where their fears can be allayed -- or confirmed.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a non-profit group that fights for personal and privacy rights in cyberspace, has set up a Web site that lets users of file-sharing services check to see if their screen names have been targeted for legal action by the Recording Industry Association of America.

According to information on the site, the data is gathered from electronic court records and may not be complete. The database is updated when new names are available.

Users of file-sharing services such as Kazaa, Grokster or Morpheus usually sign on with an alias commonly known as a screen name. The alias is associated with a number known as an IP address that's assigned every computer that connects to the Internet.

The RIAA is presenting 871 subpoenas to Internet service providers demanding to know the real name and contact information tied to the IP address and screen name. Recent court rulings require providers to give up the information.

At the end of August, the association has said, it will begin filing lawsuits against file swappers.

The RIAA is going after people who are making music available for download, rather than file-swappers who are downloading music. The association has indicated it will sue offenders who offer as few as eight copyrighted songs via file-sharing services.

The association has suggested one way to keep from getting sued is to turn off shared folders so no songs are visible to other users. Critics of this approach have pointed out that, if everyone does this, it will cripple file-sharing services because no music will be available for download.

Millions of people use file-sharing services every day, with estimates ranging as high as 43 million in the month of May, according to a recent study by the NPD Group. The music industry is turning to suing swappers themselves after legal action against the file-sharing services failed to shut them down.

The music industry is suffering through one of the worst slumps in its history and blames the rise of digital music for its much of its pain.

[Pern]

In desperiation for profit, the Entertainment Industry sues it's own customers!

There's a link to the web site on the original article, but I'm not HTML savvy enough to post it here. Not enough coffee yet.

[yeetch!]

http://www.eff.org/IP/P2P/riaasubpoenas/

[itzmygun]

What other product are you forbidden to sample before you buy? I can test drive a car, I can try on a shirt. I have purchased about 10 albums this year that I would have never bought if I hadn't been able to check out some songs by downloading them from Kazaa - something the recording industry says is hogwash...

[Ex-Dem]

These people need to have the good sense not to use unique screennames, period. If you just use the default sn (defaultuser@kazaa, etc.) you draw less attention to yourself.

[LibertarianInExile]

Toilet paper.

Not that I disagree with your point.

[Sacajaweau]

The industry is concluding that everyone who downloaded was a buyer who would have gone to the store and made a purchase. To stretch it, that means when I turn on my radio and hear a song, I violated their copyright and my actions were a lost purchase. Everytime I rent a video, I violated their copyright and my actions were a "lost purchase".

The truth of the matter is that the music distribution industry has a monopoly and the public is getting ripped on extraordinary high prices for these "cheap to manufacture" CDs. The solution "Boycott the Industry" for a month.

[randog]

What other product are you forbidden to sample before you buy?

Plenty, but I think a better argument would be 'how many industries force you to buy their entire product line instead of a single item?'. It's like going to McDonald's and having to buy a Big Mac and Fries when all you wanted was a shake.

The music industry is suffering through one of the worst slumps in its history and blames the rise of digital music for its much of its pain.

Hogwash. The music industry could be taking advantage of the digital music medium to offer singles online instead of entire CD's full of music their customers don't want.

[majordivit]

Good point. In fact, the decline in revenue for the recording industry has nothing to do with so called music pirating. It has everything to do with tons of crap that passes for music. Most discriminating music listeners are not quick to buy a CD because they heard one song 50 times on the radio or saw one music video 10 times on TV. They wan't to know that the CD contains mostly good music and not mostly filler garbage. They won't know that just by listening to one so called hit song. It's not like the old days when you could count on a band or artist releasing a record that contained mostly good songs. Today, it's just the opposite. I do not purchase a CD unless the amount of good music is greater than the amount of filler.

[freekitty]

"What other product are you forbidden to sample before you buy? I can test drive a car, I can try on a shirt. I have purchased about 10 albums this year that I would have never bought if I hadn't been able to check out some songs by downloading them from Kazaa - something the recording industry says is hogwash..."

Yeah, they should bring back single 45's. But they would find a way to honk the public for that too.

[elfman2]

"What other product are you forbidden to sample before you buy?"

Art, clothes, shoes, jewelry, furniture, computers, beer etc… Of course there's probably a rare exception to each of those. Just like how you buying 10 CDs a year of sampled music is the exception to the all the kids downloading millions of tracts worth billions if dollars with zero intention of spending their money on what they can get for free.

I don't like the recording industry any more than you do, hyping their over priced crap. I also don’t like the advertisement industry or the insurance industry, but they all deserve legal protection.

[zook]

bump

[dix]

Interesting topic.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

Wouldn't it be a better analogy to say they are suing their own shoplifters?

[The Great RJ]

The recording industry is shooting themselves in the foot. Despite these law suits, the more tech savy web denizens will still find the means to continue file sharing and the sale of over priced, over hyped and often talentless CD's will continue to nose dive. Doesn't someone out there realize there is a large market for music that isn't rap, boy-bands or Brittany?

Perhaps the likely success of sites, like the new I-pod site where you can legally (I guess) download a single song for about $1, will be a wake up call.

[kinghorse]

Put some basic security in and around your shop or shut up.

Don't leave the shop wide open, complain when your ripped off and then ask police to go beat down doors.

[elfman2]

"Despite these law suits, the more tech savy web denizens will still find the means to continue file sharing "

That's always been possible. The recording industry just doesn't want it to be so siple that every dopey 90 IQ teenager can burn a CD easier than charging one to her dad's credit card at the mall.

[FreePaul]

Art, clothes, shoes, jewelry, furniture, computers, beer etc…

Anyone buy "Art" without looking at it?
Don't most people try on clothes and shoes before buying?
Women try on jewelry regularly. Often without any intention of buying.
Would you buy a chair without sitting in it?
Who would buy a computer without trying it first?
Visit a brewery and you can sample all the beer you want.

[elfman2]

"While I don't have any hard data to back it up, I would suspect that people in many of those tribes are actually happier and have fewer psychological disorders than many moderns."

I don't doubt what you suspect. And I don't have any hard data, but I suspect that without our help, they die at exceptionally high rates from illnesses we cure. I also suspect that they clash and war over resources that would be sufficient to maintain more than 10 times their numbers in modern societies, with all our neurosis producing stresses. Additionally, I suspect that the time of many primitive people that where at one time potentially brilliant is taken up by tedious, unrewarding and unchallenging tasks needed to survive, however therapeutic they may be.

[elfman2]

Oops wrong thread...

[elfman2]

"While I don't have any hard data to back it up, I would suspect that people in many of those tribes are actually happier and have fewer psychological disorders than many moderns."

I don't doubt what you suspect. And I don't have any hard data, but I suspect that without our help, they die at exceptionally high rates from illnesses we cure. I also suspect that they clash and war over resources that would be sufficient to maintain more than 10 times their numbers in modern societies, with all our neurosis producing stresses. Additionally, I suspect that the time of many primitive people that where at one time potentially brilliant is taken up by tedious, unrewarding and unchallenging tasks needed to survive, however therapeutic they may be.

[itzmygun]

You mean you can't look at a painting to see if you like it before you buy? You can't try on a shirt, slacks, or shoes? You can't try on a necklace or watch? You can't sit on a couch you might buy? You don't know the operating system or speed of a computer before you purchase one? You are totally blind when buying a music CD. You may have heard one song, but the rest could be crap.
Also, remember that this same argument took place when casette tapes and video recorders hit the markets - and it doesn't look like either of those had any great effect on the industry.

Want to stop kids from downloading and not buying the album? Offer them something more in the CD jacket that they can't get from a download: stickers, tattoos, patches, free offers for example. If a kid goes to school and every other kid has a No Doubt patch on his or her backpack, I guarantee that kid wouldn't give a hoot whether he could download that album for free or not.

I see this as being more about capitalism bringing about innovation - something the record industry can't seem to grasp.

[ItisaReligionofPeace]

How exactly were they supposed to put securtiy in the shop? Think of a good way an you'll be rich.

[elfman2]

" Anyone buy "Art" without looking at it?
Don't most people try on clothes and shoes before buying?
Women try on jewelry regularly. Often without any intention of buying.
Would you buy a chair without sitting in it?
Who would buy a computer without trying it first?
Visit a brewery and you can sample all the beer you want."

Each of those required that you go to the store and sample them. Music stores allow that now. None of you example allow you to take a sample home.

(Sorry about the cross postings. I'm managing my 8 mo old son -very distracting.)

[elfman2]

"You mean you can't look at a painting to see if you like it before you buy?…"

See my post #23 above.

[FreePaul]

My e-mail and regular mail are full of offers to try out most of those things at home, unfortunately not the beer, and return them if not satisfied. I don't understand why Microsoft was in trouble for "bundling" when the record industry gets away with it. Just depends on how you spread your bribes political contributions around.

[eno_]

I was wondering how the heck I got here, but as long as I am here I would point out that no money changes hands inside the store at Firestone and Parson. Too tacky. And if the wife doesn't like what you brought home, take it back, no problem. Art and rugs are similarly commonly taken on approval. Shop for a high end car - no "test drive" - just bring it back tommorow. When I was a consultant, if a customer complained about anything, my response would be simply "OK, pay only for what you think I did right." Nobody ever paid less than 100%. It works wonders not to treat your customers like crooks.

[Scenic Sounds]

Don't worry, Amelia. I didn't rat you out on this.

I ain't said nuttin to nobody! ;-)

[George W. Bush]

I expect that they have chosen to target filesharers with huge collections, that have a permanent assigned IP address and high-speed connection (DSL/cable) and who have maintained a consistent user name on Kazaa. These are the easiest targets in a lawsuit. Further, they have probably downloaded the files from these users repeatedly in a legally documented way to demonstrate that they did indeed provide the files to others.

At any rate, Kazaa dropped by about 2 million users when this list was published. So the legal tactic is working. I would expect that far more than 2 million have disabled downloading files from their own machine to anyone else.

I think this will spur the growth of FreeNet. It recently had a much-needed upgrade. FreeNet is probably the next P2P battleground.

[Amelia]

Don't worry, Amelia. I didn't rat you out on this.

Good thing. I burned all those CDs from your computer. ;-)

[elfman2]

" When I was a consultant, if a customer complained about anything, my response would be simply "OK, pay only for what you think I did right." Nobody ever paid less than 100%. It works wonders not to treat your customers like crooks."

As a consultant, you know that methods that work in one circumstance don't always work in others. Your clients were probably high profile and dependent on reputation. You wouldn't recommend the same "pick your price" reimbursement mechanism to them if they sold something over the net to anonymous people that can be endlessly and easily copied like software, porno or high resolution images. As a good consultant, you know better than to universally misapply mechanisms that only work in specific circumstances.

[Scenic Sounds]

Good thing. I burned all those CDs from your computer. ;-)

LOL. I shoulda never let you talk me into this kinda thing. I know I'm in way over my head. There's no turning back now. ;-)

[Kevin Curry]

It works wonders not to treat your customers like crooks.

Unless they are crooks. Then you had better be prepared to protect yourself and maybe even sue for damages and restitution.

Tell you what. Leave your garage door open. Word on the street is that Vinnie the Customer like your wheels. He'll be by to hotwire and borrow it for a couple months or years. Oh, he could afford to buy his own, but he doesn't want to spend his money when there are great folks such as yourself who have already spent the money who are willing to share.

It's a good thing there are people like you in the world who aren't uptight about personal property rights.

[elfman2]

"My e-mail and regular mail are full of offers to try out most of those things at home"

Really? Most of the spam I get is offers for porn, offers for home business or offers for penis enlargements. None say pay for it if you feel like it.

[brianl703]

I've noticed that in the last 10 years or so, the number of #1 songs on the top-40 chart in a given year seems to have dropped. Songs are staying at #1 for longer periods of time.

Prior to about 10 years ago, it was rare for a song to stay #1 for 3 weeks, let alone 3 months.

I wonder if this is correlated to the general decline of music into CDs filled with 12 songs of crap.

[jocon307]

How does one know this is not a trap? You put in your IP address and they add you to the list? My trust level is way too low to try this one. Also, I don't know my IP address : )

[Amelia]

Also, I don't know my IP address : )

Don't worry, they know it. ;-)

[Amelia]

I know I'm in way over my head. There's no turning back now.

Isn't there a song that goes something like that? ;-)

Maybe I should download that one too, before they confiscate your computer. :-D

[Scenic Sounds]

Also, I don't know my IP address : )

Your IP Address

[Pern]

I used my KazAa screen name. It said I was clear... (key omnious music)...this time. I have a cable modem, so my IP address changes every time I boot up my pc.

As to it being a possible trap, I have all my music filesharing disabled, so if they look inside my pc, I'll sue them for hacking into my computer. I'm sure I'll be able to find an anti-RIAA lawyer just looking for an excuse to counter sue.

[Scenic Sounds]

Isn't there a song that goes something like that? ;-)

Is this is the song you have in mind?

;-)

[Amelia]

Unlimited internet access, courtesy of the taxpayer?

hmmmmmmmm

[eno_]

Contrary to popular opinion, spammers know their target audience very well: dickless suckers who are bankrupt because they keep getting taken by pyramid schemes and Nigerian confidence games.

[Scenic Sounds]

Unlimited internet access, courtesy of the taxpayer?

hmmmmmmmm

Burnin license plates can't be all that different from burnin CD's.

Or can it? ;-)

[eno_]

I work in an IP-based industry highly dependent on anonymous end-customers. I know the ONLY way to survive is to build a service element into our products that makes them useless if copied, and to transition to a subscription business model. You cannot create a healthy market under a policemen's truncheon.

The only solution for music is to make it too cheap to copy. That is the only solution for any product where there is no service element. Customers will, rightly, reject DRM as Big Brother Inside.

[Lael]

Customers will, rightly, reject DRM as Big Brother Inside

You got that right!!!

There is so much hardware selling for distress prices...and anyone who has junked a PC has a "license" to the Windows version just junked...

Windoze 98 is still #1...only reason I have XP is Sony did the "activation thing" OEM.

Besides...with Micro$oft shipping jobs to India...time to tell "Bill" to take a hike!!!

[elfman2]

"The only solution for music is to make it too cheap to copy."

Perhaps. I think that there's an equilibrium that will be found. If there were no risk or difficulty in burning copies, the "too cheap to copy" price would also be too bother with in many cases. Not all musicians want to tour, and not all music lends itself to sustaining itself that way.

[Wil H]

You mean you can't look at a painting to see if you like it before you buy? You can't try on a shirt, slacks, or shoes? You can't try on a necklace or watch? You can't sit on a couch you might buy?

Your analogy doesn't hold water. If you try on a shirt you either buy it, or put it back on the rack, you don't take it home without paying for it and lend it to your friends.

Sure you can look at a painting, but it stays in the gallery unless you pay for it.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

keep

[elfman2]

"Contrary to popular opinion, spammers know their target audience very well: dickless suckers who are bankrupt because they keep getting taken by pyramid schemes and Nigerian confidence games."

You don't know what you're talking about. Those ads are broadcast daily by the tens of millions to anyone who ever posted their email to someplace or to some organization from which it can be harvested.

[jocon307]

That's a handy link, thank you. We have a cable modem too, so I guess our address changes all the time.

We made the kid disable her file sharing, I figured it would be just our luck to get sued by the desperados at the RIAA.

I see a couple of colleges (is it Boston U. - or Boston College, and MIT?) are actually not caving. I can see the RIAA's argument, but they are trying to hold back the future, and it isn't going to work. This was the same argument made about TV and then about Video by the movies. But how many movies are more successful on video than they were in theatres? I'm not sure how the RIAA could make money on this, but it isn't up to me to figure it out. I am fairly sure that their heavy-handed tactics are doomed to fail.

And where can I find that silly song Rush Limbaugh was playing for a while "Happy Feet"?