Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

War of Words Divides Residents of Texas Town
NY Times ^ | SIMON ROMERO

Posted on 07/19/2003 4:11:14 AM PDT by Pharmboy

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-24 next last
I would like to hear comments about this from TexaFreepers from the area of Goliad: anything that the article left out?

And what is the story of the captioned photo? Seems like a non-sequitir in that they mention nothing about the 1857 incident in the article...

1 posted on 07/19/2003 4:11:14 AM PDT by Pharmboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
"Some of Goliad's Mexican-American residents prefer "execution" to "massacre" in describing what happened here in 1836 because of Mexican law at the time, which was explicit in meting out de facto death sentences for foreigners taking up arms against the government."

(hisotry professors, please correct me)

It is important to note that settlers in Texas were not foreigners, but had given up citizenship in other countries (a large number from Germany, Czechoslovakia, and the United States) and had taken an oath of Mexican citizenship for a grant of land BEFORE Santa Ana (the BRUTAL dictator) took power. Texicans had a somewhat independent government. Santa Ana, however, declared himself "Emperor" and attempted to repeal all Texas land grants and remove a democratic legislature - hence the Texas War of Independence.

A large percentage of those who fought against Santa Ana were Latino.

It was a massacre.

Any bets on why illegal immigration is condoned in Mexico? (nothing to do with economics, everything to do with Mexican nationalism)

2 posted on 07/19/2003 4:43:07 AM PDT by PokeyJoe (Pig skin tastes like chicken)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PokeyJoe
Interesting. Also, in the book I read on the Mexican War (So Far From God: The US War With Mexico by Eisenhower) the author says that Anglos were actually invited into the Texas Territory...
3 posted on 07/19/2003 4:52:31 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
My Great (times 3)grandfather was Joseph Kneeland Taylor - both he and his brother-in-law fought in the battle of Goliad (actual battle and surrender was at Colleto Creek as the Texans were attempting to retreat away from Goliad - they knew that the Alamo had fallen and that they were next

My (3x)grandfather was among a small handfull that escaped the executions carried out several days later (the Mexican army were bad shots and had to reload giving some prisioners time to flee and jump into the river)

Below is a first hand account by another escapee as to the terms of surrender:

Gen. Urrea himself rode out in front of his lines accompanied by several of his officers and the soldier with the "white flag."

Col. Fannin and Major Wallace went out to meet them, and the terms of capitulation were finally agreed upon, the most important of which was, that we should be held as prisoners of war until exchanged, or liberated on our parole of honor not to engage in the war again at the option of the Mexican commander in chief.

There were minor articles included in it, such as that our side arms should be retained, etc. When the terms of capitulation had been fully decided upon, Gen. Urrea and his secretary and interpreter came into our lines with Col. Fannin., where it was reduced to writing, and an English translation given to Col. Fannin which was read to our men.

I am thus particular in stating what I know to be the facts in regard to this capitulation, because I have seen it stated that Gen. Santa Anna always asserted there was no capitulation, and that Col. Fannin surrendered at discretion to Gen. Urrea.

This assertion I have no doubt was made to justify as far as possible his order for the cold blooded murder of disarmed prisoners. Gen. Urrea, I believe, never denied the fact of the capitulation, and I have been informed when the order was sent him by Santa Anna to execute the prisoners, he refused to carry it into effect, and turned over the command to a subaltern.

I have always believed myself that Gen. Urrea entered into the capitulation with Col. Fannin in good faith, and that the massacre of the prisoners, which took place some days afterwards, was by the express order of Santa Anna, and against the remonstrances of Gen. Urrea.

If Gen. Urrea had intended to act treacherously, the massacre, in my opinion, would have taken place as soon as we had delivered up our arms, when we were upon an open prairie, surrounded by a large force of cavalry, where it would have been utterly impossible for a single soul to have escaped, and consequently he could then have given to the world his own version of the affair without fear of contradiction. sdct

4 posted on 07/19/2003 5:19:48 AM PDT by VRWCTexan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Mexicans did fight on the side of the Texas Revolution.The good citizens of Goliad are fighting a war about something else.This massacre vs execution is just the vehicle.The men had surrendered and were going to be prisoners.It was Santa Anna who ordered the killings.Semantics!There was a significant German settlement of the Hill Country in Texas.There were land grants before Santa Ana.His "dictatorial" rule really sparked the fighting,though there had been earlier skirmishes with the Mexican army.
5 posted on 07/19/2003 5:28:28 AM PDT by MEG33
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: All
Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
That's the nicest thing that anyone's ever done for me.
It isn't every day
good fortune comes me way!
I never thought the future would be fun for me!
And if I had a bugle
I would blow it to add a sort
o' how's your father's touch.
But since I left me bugle at home
I simply have to say
Thank you very, very, very much!
Thank you very, very, very much!

Thank you for your donation!


6 posted on 07/19/2003 5:32:12 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VRWCTexan
I liked your version!
7 posted on 07/19/2003 5:34:27 AM PDT by MEG33
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Regarding the 1857 "Hangings" see below from Texas History on-line:

CART WAR. The so called "Cart War" erupted in 1857 and had national and international repercussions. The underlying causes of the event, historians believe, were ethnic and racial hostilities of Texans toward Mexican Texans, exacerbated by the ethnocentrism of the Know-Nothing partyqv and the white anger over Mexican sympathy with black slaves.

By the mid-1850s, Mexicans and Tejanos had built a successful business of hauling food and merchandise from the port of Indianola to San Antonio and other towns in the interior of Texas.

Using oxcarts, Mexicans moved freight more rapidly and cheaply than their Anglo competitors. Some Anglos retaliated by destroying the Mexicans' oxcarts, stealing their freight, and reportedly killing and wounding a number of Mexican carters.

An attack on Mexican carters occurred in 1855 near Seguin, but sustained violence did not begin until July 1857. Local authorities made no serious effort to apprehend the criminals, and violence increased so much that some feared that a "campaign of death" against Mexicans was under way. Public opinion in some counties between San Antonio and the coast ran heavily against the carters, who were regarded as an "intolerable nuisance." Some newspapers, however, spoke out against the violence. The Austin Southern Intelligencer and the San Antonio Heraldqqv expressed concern that the "war" would raise prices. The Intelligencer also worried that if attacks on a "weak race" were permitted, the next victims would be the German Texans, and that finally "a war between the poor and the rich" might occur.

Some humanitarians also expressed concern for the Mexicans, notwithstanding "the fact of their being low in the scale of intelligence," as the Nueces Valley Weekly of Corpus Christi stated.

News of the violence in Texas soon reached the Mexican minister in Washington, Manuel Robles y Pezuela, who on October 14 protested the affair to Secretary of State Lewis Cass. Cass urged Texas governor Elisha M. Peaseqv to end the hostilities. In a message to the state legislature of November 30, 1857, Pease declared: "It is now very evident that there is no security for the lives of citizens of Mexican origin engaged in the business of transportation, along the road from San Antonio to the Gulf."

Pease asked for a special appropriation for the militia, and the legislators approved the expenditure with little opposition. Though some citizens of Karnes County, who wanted the "peon Mexican teamsters" out of business, were angry at the arrival of armed escorts for Tejanoqv carters, the "war" subsided in December of 1857.

BIBLIOGRAPHY: Arnoldo De León, They Called Them Greasers: Anglo Attitudes Toward Mexicans in Texas, 1821-1900 (Austin: University of Texas Press, 1983). John J. Linn, Reminiscences of Fifty Years in Texas (New York: Sadlier, 1883; 2d ed., Austin: Steck, 1935; rpt., Austin: State House, 1986). Sister Paul of the Cross McGrath, Political Nativism in Texas, 1825-1860 (Washington: Catholic University of America, 1930). Reports of the Committee of Investigations, sent in 1873 by the Mexican Government to the Frontier of Texas (New York: Baker and Godwin, 1875). J. Fred Rippy, "Border Troubles along the Rio Grande, 1848-1860," Southwestern Historical Quarterly 23 (October 1919).

Bottom line is there does not appear to be a clear record of these mass hangings cited in your posted article...

8 posted on 07/19/2003 5:40:08 AM PDT by VRWCTexan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VRWCTexan
Thank you for posting. Incredible story...especially to have in one's family.
9 posted on 07/19/2003 5:42:47 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
This evil anglo Texan giggles at "Mexican" ownership of the southwest and Texas.

Texans were legal, (and content), Mexican residents, until the "Santa Anna Wind" blew across the land.

Funny thing is, the Spanish and the French came and took the land from the Native Americans, and then the Mexicans took it from them. Mexicans are as much invaders to this continent as anybody. But since we are anglos, we are evil. What crap.

They celebrate 16 September as their independence day from Spanish rule, and Cinco de Mayo (ever heard of that?) is the victory over the French at the Battle of Puebla.

But ohhhhhhh noooooooo. When the Texans kicked their asses at San Jacinto, welll, golly, now we're incensed.

-----

And don't give me any crap about Mexico including the native indians in their Spanish (European) Culture. Take a look at the Mayan Zapatista uprisings in the Yucatan. Ever been outside of Cancun? It's dirt-poor, and I do mean kids-playing with sticks-and-rocks dirt poor. Does any of the taxes from beer in Cancun go to these poor NATIVE bastards. Hell no. Not one chiclet.

There was a war, they lost, move on. (Or bring it on again.)

10 posted on 07/19/2003 5:43:48 AM PDT by sam_paine (.................................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MEG33
Thanks...nothing like a first-hand account to remove some of the (liberal - politically correct) revisionist history -

And just for the record, two of my precious grandchildren fall into the catagory of Mexican-American (by those who choose to place labels)

11 posted on 07/19/2003 5:45:18 AM PDT by VRWCTexan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
I have to remember Texas History from the eighth grade...

After taking power in Mexico, Gen. Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna raised taxes on the territories one of which was Texas. He sent tax collectors along with army troops to back them up. There were abuses by the tax collectors and troops, setting tax rates at whatever level they wanted and taking property for non-payment.

I seem to remember that a delegation was sent to Mexico City to request statehood and relief from the abuses and that the delegation was jailed. The Texans, both Spanish / Mexican heritage and American / Central European heritage formed militias to protect their property. They sent the tax collectors back to Mexico City after defeating them. This is when Santa Anna marched north.
12 posted on 07/19/2003 5:50:08 AM PDT by El Laton Caliente
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VRWCTexan
Thanks again. I have visited The Alamo and was surprised at how many Hispanic names were among the defenders killed there. They never taught me that in high school.
13 posted on 07/19/2003 5:50:54 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Interesting that they refer to Anglos immigrating (legally) to Mexican Texas as "Foreigners". So what do they call Mexicans who (illegally) immigrate to the United States today? Foreigners? No. They're "Undocumented Workers", or "Migrants". PC strikes agian.
14 posted on 07/19/2003 5:55:34 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Alas Babylon!
Great point!
15 posted on 07/19/2003 5:59:15 AM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
The Spanish land grant families were just as upset at Santa Anna as any of the other Texans.

BTW, the greatest problem the Spanish / Tex-Mex ever had in Texas was AFTER the civil war. The northern carpet baggers burned may of the Catholic Churches where the land records were stored and stole the land.

Also, this is a typical "La Rasa" ["The Race", read Mexican KKK with communist tendencies] distortion of history.
16 posted on 07/19/2003 6:05:15 AM PDT by El Laton Caliente
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: VRWCTexan
History is history. I say make as accurate as possible.As human beings wrote it as it happened there will always be some differences in fact and perspective.I love it when a thread like this starts because there are always freepers who add to my knowledge!I read relations were better in many parts of Texas but Jim Crow laws came along.
17 posted on 07/19/2003 6:06:59 AM PDT by MEG33
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Alas Babylon!
Why do so-called Americans gloat about Americans being "executed" by a foreign army?

People who want to call themselves Americans should "become" Americans. Personally, I couldn't give a rats ass where someone came from. It's all about what they do once they are here (legally, of course).
18 posted on 07/19/2003 6:13:59 AM PDT by Conservateacher
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: El Laton Caliente
The Indians were here first and fought each other for territory so this foreigner business gets ridiculous!
19 posted on 07/19/2003 6:14:29 AM PDT by MEG33
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Pharmboy
Somehow, this has the flavor of the multiculturalism in Kosovo.
20 posted on 07/19/2003 6:28:21 AM PDT by Gritty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-24 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson