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The Bright Stuff
NY Times ^ | 7/12/03 | DANIEL C. DENNETT

Posted on 07/14/2003 6:53:32 AM PDT by Valin

BLUE HILL, Me. The time has come for us brights to come out of the closet. What is a bright? A bright is a person with a naturalist as opposed to a supernaturalist world view. We brights don't believe in ghosts or elves or the Easter Bunny — or God. We disagree about many things, and hold a variety of views about morality, politics and the meaning of life, but we share a disbelief in black magic — and life after death.

The term "bright" is a recent coinage by two brights in Sacramento, Calif., who thought our social group — which has a history stretching back to the Enlightenment, if not before — could stand an image-buffing and that a fresh name might help. Don't confuse the noun with the adjective: "I'm a bright" is not a boast but a proud avowal of an inquisitive world view.

You may well be a bright. If not, you certainly deal with brights daily. That's because we are all around you: we're doctors, nurses, police officers, schoolteachers, crossing guards and men and women serving in the military. We are your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters. Our colleges and universities teem with brights. Among scientists, we are a commanding majority. Wanting to preserve and transmit a great culture, we even teach Sunday school and Hebrew classes. Many of the nation's clergy members are closet brights, I suspect. We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation: brights take their civic duties seriously precisely because they don't trust God to save humanity from its follies.

As an adult white married male with financial security, I am not in the habit of considering myself a member of any minority in need of protection. If anybody is in the driver's seat, I've thought, it's people like me. But now I'm beginning to feel some heat, and although it's not uncomfortable yet, I've come to realize it's time to sound the alarm.

Whether we brights are a minority or, as I am inclined to believe, a silent majority, our deepest convictions are increasingly dismissed, belittled and condemned by those in power — by politicians who go out of their way to invoke God and to stand, self-righteously preening, on what they call "the side of the angels."

A 2002 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life suggests that 27 million Americans are atheist or agnostic or have no religious preference. That figure may well be too low, since many nonbelievers are reluctant to admit that their religious observance is more a civic or social duty than a religious one — more a matter of protective coloration than conviction.

Most brights don't play the "aggressive atheist" role. We don't want to turn every conversation into a debate about religion, and we don't want to offend our friends and neighbors, and so we maintain a diplomatic silence.

But the price is political impotence. Politicians don't think they even have to pay us lip service, and leaders who wouldn't be caught dead making religious or ethnic slurs don't hesitate to disparage the "godless" among us.

From the White House down, bright-bashing is seen as a low-risk vote-getter. And, of course, the assault isn't only rhetorical: the Bush administration has advocated changes in government rules and policies to increase the role of religious organizations in daily life, a serious subversion of the Constitution. It is time to halt this erosion and to take a stand: the United States is not a religious state, it is a secular state that tolerates all religions and — yes — all manner of nonreligious ethical beliefs as well.

I recently took part in a conference in Seattle that brought together leading scientists, artists and authors to talk candidly and informally about their lives to a group of very smart high school students. Toward the end of my allotted 15 minutes, I tried a little experiment. I came out as a bright.

Now, my identity would come as no surprise to anybody with the slightest knowledge of my work. Nevertheless, the result was electrifying.

Many students came up to me afterwards to thank me, with considerable passion, for "liberating" them. I hadn't realized how lonely and insecure these thoughtful teenagers felt. They'd never heard a respected adult say, in an entirely matter of fact way, that he didn't believe in God. I had calmly broken a taboo and shown how easy it was.

In addition, many of the later speakers, including several Nobel laureates, were inspired to say that they, too, were brights. In each case the remark drew applause. Even more gratifying were the comments of adults and students alike who sought me out afterward to tell me that, while they themselves were not brights, they supported bright rights. And that is what we want most of all: to be treated with the same respect accorded to Baptists and Hindus and Catholics, no more and no less.

If you're a bright, what can you do? First, we can be a powerful force in American political life if we simply identify ourselves. (The founding brights maintain a Web site on which you can stand up and be counted.) I appreciate, however, that while coming out of the closet was easy for an academic like me — or for my colleague Richard Dawkins, who has issued a similar call in England — in some parts of the country admitting you're a bright could lead to social calamity. So please: no "outing."

But there's no reason all Americans can't support bright rights. I am neither gay nor African-American, but nobody can use a slur against blacks or homosexuals in my hearing and get away with it. Whatever your theology, you can firmly object when you hear family or friends sneer at atheists or agnostics or other godless folk.

And you can ask your political candidates these questions: Would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate for public office who was a bright? Would you support a nominee for the Supreme Court who was a bright? Do you think brights should be allowed to be high school teachers? Or chiefs of police?

Let's get America's candidates thinking about how to respond to a swelling chorus of brights. With any luck, we'll soon hear some squirming politician trying to get off the hot seat with the feeble comment that "some of my best friends are brights."

Daniel C. Dennett, a professor of philosophy at Tufts University, is author, most recently, of "Freedom Evolves.''


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: athiests; catholiclist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Well I guess I'm just not that bright.

We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation: ROTFLM(not so bright)AO

1 posted on 07/14/2003 6:53:32 AM PDT by Valin
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2 posted on 07/14/2003 6:53:54 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Valin
The time has come for us brights to come out of the closet.

What's with people feeling compelled to 'come out of the closet'?

The closet is fine. It works for both of us.

Stay in.

Please.

3 posted on 07/14/2003 6:56:50 AM PDT by IncPen
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To: Valin
...I'm positively DIM.
4 posted on 07/14/2003 6:57:37 AM PDT by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...if we can keep it!)
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To: Valin
The word gay is lost, I'm not about to concede bright.
5 posted on 07/14/2003 6:58:30 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: Valin
It used to be that only a fool or an intellectual could be an atheist. Now also "brights". Is Mensa next?
6 posted on 07/14/2003 7:00:45 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: Valin
19 For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:19-21
7 posted on 07/14/2003 7:02:05 AM PDT by egarvue (Martin Sheen is not my president...)
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To: Valin
Is this man making the assertion that Secular Humanists are a persecuted minority?
8 posted on 07/14/2003 7:02:16 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: Valin
We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation ...

This guy is delusional.

9 posted on 07/14/2003 7:02:55 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: Phaedrus
France is full of people like this...they all work for the Government. Chances are this one does too, else how could he be financially secure?
10 posted on 07/14/2003 7:03:40 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: steve8714
France and Dennett -- OK, let's boycott Dennett, too.
11 posted on 07/14/2003 7:05:29 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: steve8714
What a sad and joyless life. These are the kind of people who ascribe all our better angels to evolutionary processes.
12 posted on 07/14/2003 7:05:42 AM PDT by steve8714
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To: Valin
Politicians don't think they even have to pay us lip service, and leaders who wouldn't be caught dead making religious or ethnic slurs don't hesitate to disparage the "godless" among us.

This guy is, quite simply, a liar.

Name me one politician running for nationwide or even statewide office who uses the term "godless"? This guy needs to be called on his fabrication.

13 posted on 07/14/2003 7:07:18 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: Valin
If you're a bright, what can you do?

Run away from stupid redefining of terms?

14 posted on 07/14/2003 7:08:05 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: Valin
atheist or agnostic or have no religious preference

Maybe I'm mistaken, but agnostics and those without religious preferences still (can) believe in God. Only the atheist doesn't. Seems like he's artificially padding the numbers to illustrate a point.

And that is what we want most of all: to be treated with the same respect accorded to Baptists and Hindus and Catholics

Well he's in for a rude awakening if he thinks those groups get any respect these days.
15 posted on 07/14/2003 7:10:32 AM PDT by babyface00
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To: Valin
If the Washington Times had published this article, I would worry.
16 posted on 07/14/2003 7:12:12 AM PDT by Phaedrus
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To: Valin
Counting the minutes before the cadre of evolutionist freepers chime in....
17 posted on 07/14/2003 7:12:14 AM PDT by ovrtaxt
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To: Valin
These people are "bright" like liberals are "progressive."
18 posted on 07/14/2003 7:12:30 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War
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To: Valin; .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Antoninus; aposiopetic; ...
And you can ask your political candidates these questions: Would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate for public office who was a bright? Would you support a nominee for the Supreme Court who was a bright? Do you think brights should be allowed to be high school teachers? Or chiefs of police?

The legacy of the last century's brightest brights:

Bottom line? Atheism eventually kills. Without exception. In far far higher numbers than theistic systems ever could or would.

Why? Atheism eventually insists on destroying every image of and reference to the Creator.

Once this is accomplished, they realize MAN is made in the image of God, and He is seen most in the face of the innocent.

So atheism ALWAYS eventually destroys the innocent, subconsciously at first, but then with a brutal conscious intensity that can only be called DEMONIC.

19 posted on 07/14/2003 7:13:34 AM PDT by Polycarp (When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
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To: PatrickHenry; betty boop
Ping?
20 posted on 07/14/2003 7:15:46 AM PDT by balrog666 (When in doubt, tell the truth. - Mark Twain)
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To: babyface00
Maybe I'm mistaken, but agnostics and those without religious preferences still (can) believe in God.

Main Entry: [1]ag·nos·tic
Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g-
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know —more at KNOW
Date: 1869
: a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
- ag·nos·ti·cism /-t&-"si-z&m/ noun

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

Note: no flame intended
It's been my experince that an agnostics is generally an atheist w/o the stones to admit it.
21 posted on 07/14/2003 7:19:03 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: Valin
A sad - and hopeless - existence.
22 posted on 07/14/2003 7:19:23 AM PDT by The Iguana
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To: Semper Paratus
This "recent coinage" of the word "bright" is a euphemism for "made up out of whole cloth just three months ago." At least the sexual definition of "gay" actually evolved for the most part; these people are trying to blatantly STEAL the word "bright" out of nowhere, in record time.

Many bloggers are already calling them "The Smugs."

23 posted on 07/14/2003 7:20:19 AM PDT by Dont Mention the War
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To: Polycarp
Do you have a link for this?
24 posted on 07/14/2003 7:20:42 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: Valin
Thanks Valin, I was too lazy to look it up.

I always thought agnostics believed in God, but just didn't believe in organized religion. Is there a word for people like that?
25 posted on 07/14/2003 7:20:49 AM PDT by babyface00
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To: Valin
This was mentioned by Andrew Stuttaford (I believe) on NRO. Andrew was much more humble in his proposed name for such a group (and he self identifies as one): The Doomed.

But the real kicker here isn't the choice of name, but the assertion that somehow atheists are being oppressed in some fashion by U.S. society. What rubbish! While not an overtly "religious" individual, I would certainly think that the faithless tend to wield a heavy hand in trying to restrict the practice of faith by their fellow citizens than the other way around.

26 posted on 07/14/2003 7:21:27 AM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Polycarp
Your list is incomplete. It leaves out the megamurdering United States of America, with a death toll around 40,000,000 during the period 1973-present.
27 posted on 07/14/2003 7:22:59 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: Valin
They sound like dim bulbs to me.
28 posted on 07/14/2003 7:28:34 AM PDT by hgro
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To: IncPen
Question posed by 50sDad to his Dear Daughter: "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?"

Answer from his wise and smart child: "We've done this before Dad! It has four legs! Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg!"

The Language Wars begin again. Once, "gay" meant "happy." "Homosexual" meant "sad and confused sexual deviant unaccepted by society." But with a poke and a tweak, and the aid of the Leftist media, today people are supposedly "proud" of being sinners. And all it took was the efforts of the homosexuals to redifine one little word.

Now, "athiest", which used to be bad, and has re-emerged as bad since 9-11, is struggling to re-define itself with an equally "upbeat" word, "bright." Again, words shift and alter, as Darkness muddies the water.

Try this gentlely re-edited version. I changed about four words throughout:

BLUE HILL, Me. The time has come for us Gays to come out of the closet. What is a Gay? A Gay is a person with a naturalist as opposed to a supernaturalist world view. We Gays don't believe in ghosts or elves or the Easter Bunny — or God. We disagree about many things, and hold a variety of views about morality, politics and the meaning of life, but we share a disbelief in black magic — and life after death.

The term "Gay" is a recent coinage by two Gays in Sacramento, Calif., who thought our social group — which has a history stretching back to the Enlightenment, if not before — could stand an image-buffing and that a fresh name might help. Don't confuse the noun with the adjective: "I'm a Gay" is not a boast but a proud avowal of an inquisitive world view.

You may well be a Gay. If not, you certainly deal with Gays daily. That's because we are all around you: we're doctors, nurses, police officers, schoolteachers, crossing guards and men and women serving in the military. We are your sons and daughters, your brothers and sisters. Our colleges and universities teem with Gays. Among scientists, we are a commanding majority. Wanting to preserve and transmit a great culture, we even teach Sunday school and Hebrew classes. Many of the nation's clergy members are closet Gays, I suspect. We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation: Gays take their civic duties seriously precisely because they don't trust God to save humanity from its follies.

As an adult white married male with financial security, I am not in the habit of considering myself a member of any minority in need of protection. If anybody is in the driver's seat, I've thought, it's people like me. But now I'm beginning to feel some heat, and although it's not uncomfortable yet, I've come to realize it's time to sound the alarm.

Whether we Gays are a minority or, as I am inclined to believe, a silent majority, our deepest convictions are increasingly dismissed, belittled and condemned by those in power — by politicians who go out of their way to invoke God and to stand, self-righteously preening, on what they call "the side of the angels." Most Gays don't play the "aggressive homosexual" role. We don't want to turn every conversation into a debate about sex, and we don't want to offend our friends and neighbors, and so we maintain a diplomatic silence.

But the price is political impotence. Politicians don't think they even have to pay us lip service, and leaders who wouldn't be caught dead making religious or ethnic slurs don't hesitate to disparage the "godless" among us.

From the White House down, Gay-bashing is seen as a low-risk vote-getter. And, of course, the assault isn't only rhetorical: the Bush administration has advocated changes in government rules and policies to increase the role of religious organizations in daily life, a serious subversion of the Constitution. It is time to halt this erosion and to take a stand: the United States is not a religious state, it is a secular state that tolerates all sexs and — yes — all manner of nonreligious ethical beliefs as well.

I recently took part in a conference in Seattle that brought together leading scientists, artists and authors to talk candidly and informally about their lives to a group of very smart high school students. Toward the end of my allotted 15 minutes, I tried a little experiment. I came out as a Gay.

Now, my identity would come as no surprise to anybody with the slightest knowledge of my work. Nevertheless, the result was electrifying.

Many students came up to me afterwards to thank me, with considerable passion, for "liberating" them. I hadn't realized how lonely and insecure these thoughtful teenagers felt. They'd never heard a respected adult say, in an entirely matter of fact way, that he didn't believe in God. I had calmly broken a taboo and shown how easy it was.

In addition, many of the later speakers, including several Nobel laureates, were inspired to say that they, too, were Gays. In each case the remark drew applause. Even more gratifying were the comments of adults and students alike who sought me out afterward to tell me that, while they themselves were not Gays, they supported Gay rights. And that is what we want most of all: to be treated with the same respect accorded to Baptists and Hindus and Catholics, no more and no less.

If you're a Gay, what can you do? First, we can be a powerful force in American political life if we simply identify ourselves. (The founding Gays maintain a Web site on which you can stand up and be counted.) I appreciate, however, that while coming out of the closet was easy for an academic like me — or for my colleague Richard Dawkins, who has issued a similar call in England — in some parts of the country admitting you're a Gay could lead to social calamity. So please: no "outing." And you can ask your political candidates these questions: Would you vote for an otherwise qualified candidate for public office who was a Gay? Would you support a nominee for the Supreme Court who was a Gay? Do you think Gays should be allowed to be high school teachers? Or chiefs of police? Let's get America's candidates thinking about how to respond to a swelling chorus of Gays. With any luck, we'll soon hear some squirming politician trying to get off the hot seat with the feeble comment that "some of my best friends are Gays."

Daniel C. Dennett, a professor of philosophy at Tufts University, is author, most recently, of "Evil Evolves.''


29 posted on 07/14/2003 7:29:52 AM PDT by 50sDad ("Can't sleep...clowns will eat me!")
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To: Valin
Isn't it interesting that the Scriptures tell us that in the Last Days, those who oppose God will call "Light" Darkenss, and they will call "Darkness" Light. I suppose "Bright" can be considered a synonym for "Light."
30 posted on 07/14/2003 7:37:20 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: Valin; unspun; Alamo-Girl; Phaedrus; balrog666; PatrickHenry
But the price is political impotence.

Gee. I wonder what universe this guy is living on.

"Brights" is a freaking euphemism used to describe a tiny, self-selected elite minority of "intellectuals" that widely controls our prestige institutions of science and culture, the main stream media, and "progressive" politicans. Our Founders were not "Brights": To be a "Bright," you have to be a thorough-going materialist.

Materialism is the solvent that is destroying the social fabric, our common culture, and our respect for the human individual. Not to mention the Constitution, the issue of the genius of our "DIM" Framers -- who were all believers in God, and respected the cultural roots of American order, roots that reach back to Jerusalem, Athens, and Rome. Materialism has no room for any of this in its relentlessly mechanistic doctrine.

If that is what it takes to call oneself a "Bright," then please, please, please -- just call me Dim.

31 posted on 07/14/2003 7:46:55 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: Valin
A 2002 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life suggests that 27 million Americans are atheist or agnostic or have no religious preference. That figure may well be too low, since many nonbelievers are reluctant to admit that their religious observance is more a civic or social duty than a religious one

"Atheist or agnostic or have no religious preference"? Agnostic literally as well as semantically means "doesn't know." Lots of people who consider themselves vaguely "religious" have no religious preference.

Anyone here noticed atheists performing "religious observance" as a social or civic duty? Maybe in the 50s, maybe in the nineteenth century, but now? My experience is that a lot more people don't like to mention that they go to church.

32 posted on 07/14/2003 7:49:56 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Valin
We are, in fact, the moral backbone of the nation: brights take their civic duties seriously precisely because they don't trust God to save humanity from its follies.

God save us from "brights" who arrogate to themselves the mission to save us.

33 posted on 07/14/2003 7:50:48 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Valin
It's been my experince that an agnostics is generally an atheist w/o the stones to admit it.

I'll grant that when push comes to shove, an agnostic will generally argue the atheist line.

But if my own experience is any guide, I think it's mostly just pridefulness. It comes from an unwillingness to admit to themselves that they know God exists, because to do so would put us under His authority.

34 posted on 07/14/2003 7:54:19 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: babyface00
An Idiot? That would be what first pops into my (not so bright) brain.
I like to ask them what an UNorganized religion looks like.
35 posted on 07/14/2003 7:54:53 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: Valin
Won't they be surprised when they meet their Maker.
36 posted on 07/14/2003 7:58:14 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: r9etb
Point well taken.
37 posted on 07/14/2003 8:00:04 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: Mr. Bird
But the real kicker here isn't the choice of name, but the assertion that somehow atheists are being oppressed in some fashion by U.S. society.

They should be. Is it true that at one time self-described atheists weren't allowed to testify in court? There's wisdom in that.

38 posted on 07/14/2003 8:01:43 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
"Nobody talks so constantly about God as those who insist that there is no God."
Heywood Broun (1888 - 1939)
39 posted on 07/14/2003 8:05:36 AM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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The French journalist Alexis de Tocqueville came to America and published his observations in the famous book Democracy in America. He observed the following during his travels through the states:
While I was in America, a witness, who happened to be called at the assizes of the county of Chester (state of New York), declared that he did not believe in the existence of God or in the immortality of the soul. The judge refused to admit his evidence, on the ground that the witness had destroyed beforehand all the confidence of the court in what he was about to say. The newspapers related the fact without any further comment. The New York Spectator of August 23d, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms:
The court of common pleas of Chester county (New York), a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked, that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country, where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.

40 posted on 07/14/2003 8:09:21 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: balrog666; betty boop
Ping?

Nah. I'm not gonna use my ping list here. I don't promote atheist threads. There's really nothing new ever to be said on the subject, and I suspect this stuff just drives Jim Robinson up the wall. We have enough controversy in the evolution threads.

41 posted on 07/14/2003 9:06:09 AM PDT by PatrickHenry (Felix, qui potuit rerum cognoscere causas.)
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To: betty boop
Thank you so much for your excellent analysis!

Yours truly,

Dim2

42 posted on 07/14/2003 9:30:32 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: PatrickHenry
I don't promote atheist threads. There's really nothing new ever to be said on the subject....

You're a good man, PH. Thanks!

43 posted on 07/14/2003 9:34:11 AM PDT by betty boop (We can have either human dignity or unfettered liberty, but not both. -- Dean Clancy)
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
Dim2

Ay! Come on -- no one-upsmanship here!

Heart of stone but for the grace of the Lord and even now, through a glass darkly dim! ;-p

44 posted on 07/14/2003 9:50:36 AM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: betty boop
Thomas Paine --- that hopeless theist.... tsk... tsk... tsk....
45 posted on 07/14/2003 9:52:06 AM PDT by unspun ("Do everything in love." | No I don't look anything like her but I do like to hear "Unspun w/ AnnaZ")
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To: Valin
The "Brights" ??

I guess the honest alternative, the "perverts" didn't get the votes?

Hmmmmm.
Supernatural or "perversion" view of the universe.
Let me think...

I vote to belong to neither, thank you.

46 posted on 07/14/2003 9:54:06 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Californians are as dumm as a sack of rocks)
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To: Polycarp
Escellent post,Polycarp. If he had said this in 1960,or thereabouts,when all of the "brights",stealthily commandeered the media,education system and most of the churches,as well as a good portion of local,state and federal governments,this would have been news or a "call to action",and may have even been honorable,so to speak.

But that is not the way of evil. No,this dim bulb of a bright,evidently assumes that no one knows they exist. Does he think that we think the social disorder and control that his "brights" designed and delivered and coerced us to accept by suffocating and squelching truth,was happenstance?

On the other hand,it would be refreshing to see the actual names and faces behind the the lies that have led this country into the "culture of death". For exmaple:"I am Cardinal Blank and I am a bright".Hey,this guy may be onto something.

47 posted on 07/14/2003 10:31:45 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: unspun
LOLOL! I didn't mean that as one-upmanship, just a "me too, betty boop!"
48 posted on 07/14/2003 10:33:40 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Aquinasfan
What a greaat "cite".Thanks.
49 posted on 07/14/2003 10:37:48 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: Valin
Here's the link for that table graphic: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/DBG.TAB1.2.GIF which comes from the site Freedom, Democracy, Peace; Power, Democide, and War

The comments at the end of my post are my own.

50 posted on 07/14/2003 10:56:19 AM PDT by Polycarp (When a mother can kill her own child, what is left of the West to save?" - Mother Theresa)
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