Judge Cristol tells the Post how he set record straight on USS Liberty

Jerusalem Post ^ | Jul. 10, 2003 | JOEL LEYDEN

[yonif]

The Jerusalem Post: The Liberty Veteran's Association appears to be very active in support of conspiracy theories. How is the association organized and are all former Liberty crew-members members of the Association?

AJC: There are many crew-members that have never joined the Association. The Association was founded with the assistance of two former United States Congressman, Paul Findley of Illinois, the first U.S. Congressman to espouse the PLO, and Paul N. "Pete" McCloskey, who is well known for his anti-Israel sentiments. McCloskey drafted the incorporation papers for the Association and also served as legal advisor to the Association. He has spoken at Holocaust denial organization conferences. He and Findley, together with three other former congresspersons, established the Council for the National Interest, CNI, an organization whose avowed purposes (according to their own press release) was to be an anti-Israel lobby.

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[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

Was the author on the USS Liberty at the time? Were they in a rowboat nearby?

I didn't think so......

[yonif]

Are you saying that the findings brought forward by investigators are meaningless unless they were in the act they are investigating?

This is just like saying that a murder investigator doesn't know what he is talking about in his findings, simply because he wasn't at the scene of the crime when it happened.

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

Read Jame Ennes's book, "The Assault on the Liberty". HE was on the ship at the time. The investigators/spinners were not.

[AdmSmith]

you may read the comments on the other thread on this subject

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/943547/posts

[yonif]

First of all answer my question I raised before. Second of all, no one is disputing that Israel attacked the USS Liberty. The fact is it was an accident. Were the sailors on the boat able to hear the radio conversations between the IAF pilots and base?

[yonif]

Here is a rebuff to one of his "facts":

• Many who claim that the attack must have been intentional argue that the Israeli jets and torpedo boats could not have missed the Liberty’s US flag, and therefore must have attacked knowing the ship was American. James Ennes, Jr., a Lieutenant on the Liberty, and one of the leading conspiracy proponents, makes this point repeatedly in his book Assault on the Liberty.

It is therefore quite ironic that Mr. Ennes, who was extensively interviewed by the History Channel, also argues in his book it would have been impossible for Cdr. McGonagle to recognize the flags and markings on the Israeli boats:

McGonagle must have been mistaken about sighting the Israeli flag at this point in the attack. For one thing, it would have been practically impossible to identify a tiny and wildly fluttering Star of David a mile away, particularly since any flags displayed by the torpedo boats would have streamed back, away from McGonagle and out of his line of sight. (Assault on the Liberty, p 149; )

Cdr. McGonagle, who had binoculars, obviously did not agree.

So, Ennis claims, the Israelis must have seen the US flag, but it was impossible that at exactly the same time the Americans could have seen the Israeli flag.

http://world.std.com/~camera/docs/alert/hchannel.html

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

I read James Ennes's book. The Free Republic comments I've read so far on this subject pretty much say, "Yeah, Israel, no matter what happened." James Ennes describes a vicious, intentional attack that came in waves over several hours. He also describes the heroic actions of Chief Engineer Golden who died on board the Liberty. Chief Golden also happened to be a Jew, but that won't stop some fools from labeling James Ennes as an anti-Semite Nazi.

[yonif]

Again, no one is disputing whether or not the attack happened.

Read this book:

http://www.libertyincident.com/

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

The problem with the "the Israelis didn't see the US flag" argument is the fact that the attack came in waves lasting at least 2 hours..........but NO Israeli EVER caught a glimps of the US flag?

This does not mean that I blame Israelis for what some fool in the IDF did. I just believe in the truth and I don't feel comfortable simply dismissing James Ennes because his conclusions are "uncomfortable".

[SJackson]

Or here

US National Security Agency: USS Liberty attack was accident [Is Jpost "full of lies" too?]

Or here

U.S. agency confirms sinking of USS Liberty was accident

I generally pass on these.

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

"First of all answer my question I raised before. Second of all, no one is disputing that Israel attacked the USS Liberty. The fact is it was an accident. Were the sailors on the boat able to hear the radio conversations between the IAF pilots and base?

The fact is: there can be no "facts" established, either way. It's been too long and there's too much "disinformatia" thrown at this subject. We'll know the truth, when we know what REALLY crashed at Roswell, NM in July, 1947.

[HolgerDansk]

"But I was soon shown how active the conspiracy theorists and hate mongers were about keeping the story alive."

So anyone who disagress with the Judge is a hate monger? If this is the attitude he started out with, his credibility is pretty well blown.

"Twelve or fourteen minutes into the air attack the flight leader of Royal Flight (2 Super Mystere) noticed the ship's hull markings were not in Arabic script. "

Maybe he should have noticed the US Navy battle ensign, a vey, very large Old Glory flying over the Liberty.

Sorry, but the JP can't have it both ways. Either the IAF pilots are supermen or stupid beyond belief.

[adam_az]

It would be nice if Ennes could keep his story straight over time, never mind that many of the eyewitness accounts conflict with each other.

Also, Ennes had no way of knowing while he was on the ship what was in the IDF's collective mind during the attack, which all the evidence shows to be that they thought it was an Egyptian ship.

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

"It would be nice if Ennes could keep his story straight over time, never mind that many of the eyewitness accounts conflict with each other. Also, Ennes had no way of knowing while he was on the ship what was in the IDF's collective mind during the attack, which all the evidence shows to be that they thought it was an Egyptian ship."

Confussion is normal during combat. It's expected. It's also quite possible that the IDF were trying to destroy the only inteligence-gathering ship that could pick up IDF radio traffic that would indicate an Israeli pre-emptive attack on her Arab neighbors. That's what Ennes believes happened. Can he prove it? No. Can the IDF prove that they thought it was an Egyptian ship? No. The trail of evidence is cold and (worse) it's been muddied over the years by both sides. I take nobody's word for anything. Just like, "are there really flying saucers?" The only honest answer that can be given is: "We don't know." Does the Government know? We don't know if the Government knows. That's all that can be said about these nasty little mysteries.

[rmlew]

The war was already on when the Liberty was attacked. The Liberty incident happened after teh Egyptian Navy sank the Eilat
As for pre-emptive, Egypt was blockading Israel (an act of war), and Egypt and Syria were shelling Israeli positions before the IDF retaliated.

[You Gotta Be Kidding Me]

"The war was already on when the Liberty was attacked. The Liberty incident happened after teh Egyptian Navy sank the Eilat As for pre-emptive, Egypt was blockading Israel (an act of war), and Egypt and Syria were shelling Israeli positions before the IDF retaliated."

I'm not sure that this is true. James Ennes does state that an Israeli aircraft (an American-made F-100 Delta Dart was used, I believe) made low level surveilance passes over the Liberty hours (several hours, I believe) before the attack.

I do not blame Israel for attacking the Arab States (pre-emptive, or otherwise). I only want to know about what happened with the USS Liberty. It seems to me that if the Israelis really did suspect the Liberty of being Egyptian ship, a call to the US Navy could have helped avoid an "accident".

Ennes, I believe, also uncovered some evidence from US military sources of a similar incident that occured months earlier against a US ship where the Israelis warned the US against having inteligence-gathering ships poking around the area. No shots were fired on that occasion. If this is true, then it would bolster claims that the Israelis knew exactly who the USS Liberty was.

Will we ever know and can we ever trust "new" documments that surface, magically to support one side, or the other? I seriously doubt it.

[dennisw]

Sez it all. Israel bashers ....take a long walk off a short pier. Same for those who flog the USS Liberty in an attempt to denigrate Israel.