Gay Marriage Poll

CNN/ USA poll ^ | June 27-29, 2003 | CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll

[AntiGuv]

I think you are being disingenious.

I am not. I've studied the history of the gay activist movement from its modern nascency during the late 18th Century & mid 19th Century revolutionary periods, and my remarks are quite accurate.

18 is the age of majority in all states. Why is it so important for gays to lower the ages to 14 in some states.

It is important to gays that no discriminatory statutes exist, as I already stated. Moreover, this movement is most prevalent in Europe wherever a general same-sex sodomy statute had been struck down that left in place a separate statute criminalizing same-sex sodomy below age 21 or 18, when age-of-consent for opposite sex vaginal/anal intercourse had been set at 16 or 15.

I would agree with you if their mission was to cause the age of consent to be raised for opposite sex sex.

This has happened in a few cases were age-of-consent was raised from 14 to 16 for opposite-sex relations while decreased from 18 or 19 to 16 for same-sex relations. The Netherlands pops to mind for some reason.

Quite frankly, I think its disgusting for anyone a8 or above, same sex or not, to desire sex with someone under 18.

In nearly all cases, there is a distinction made on the basis of age differential. By example, 16 is the age of consent so long as the older partner is not more than 2 or 4 years older. There's usually an absolute cutoff at 14, an intermediate threshold at 16, and a final threshold at 18 after which full consent is acquired (except in those cases where it remains 21 for same-sex relations).

so, it gives me pause. What is the real motive. Aren't there enough adult partners to choose from or does havign sex with a minor bring some special excitement?

Since in almost all cases, the only 'partners' impacted would be those no older than age 21 [in that case coupled with a 17 y.o.], I doubt this would be the real motive. All evidence suggests that the real motive is that which I've described.

Having sex with a minor self-evidently brings some special excitement to all pedophiles, regardless of sexuality. I wouldn't know from personal experience, since I'm generally drawn to women right about my age.

[VRWC_minion]

In short, they gays want the age of consent lowered, just to make it fair. If they didn't care to have sex with minors in the first place, I still cannot understand their cause. If they want symboiism then they should argue to raise the male-female age to what there is. That is the only posistion that is consistant with asking for pure equality and avoid claims they have other interests in mind.

Thanks for the explanation and the reasoning. When the trend is that the age of consent is being limited to certain relationships for heterosexual sex, you have managed to actually solidify my suspicions about the gays motives. Instead of joining the current motion that society is putting on the age of consent, older gays are interested in having sex with minors and some laws prevent this. To combat that they are hiding behind the concept of equality.

This then raises questions for me reagrding the premise that gays are not created while young.

[AntiGuv]

Anyhow, if you review the Legal Age of Consent at this webpage I just searched up, you'll see this impacts very few states. Specifically, Nevada & New Hampshire and perhaps Colorado. Also Kansas from states where general sodomy statutes were recently overturned. Strangely enough, it appears New Mexico has an age-of-consent of 13 for same-sex and 17 for opposite-sex relations. If true, that should get equalized to 17..

[lawdude]

"We need the DOMA."

And just what is DOMA?

[Dilly]

"And just what is DOMA?"

DOMA is just more federal interference in state affairs.

[VRWC_minion]

see this impacts very few states.

Which makes the gays keen interest in these ages all the more suspect. How many heterosexual's walk around with the age of consent freshly printed off their favorite web site ?

[VRWC_minion]

Defense of Marriage ACT/Amendment.

Like it needs defending. I think it needs a better name.

[VRWC_minion]

Interesting letter from that site. Looks like I'm not the only one who wonders out loud about the "age of consent" motives.

---

The Original Email - April 2002:
To whom it may concern,

I recieved a link to your site a couple of months ago while in an internet chat room. Let me just say, as a gay youth (I'm only 20) and a democrat (even though we typically believe in the right to chose your path rather sexually or abortion-wise.), I found your site very offensive!.Although you are exercising your right to free speech, I feel that this site is a site that I would picture a pevert going to. It seems to me that older men come on this site just to see what states they can go to, so they can have sex with younger men and women, men and women under the age of 18. I personally feel that many of these states that have laws saying that under 18 to have sex is OK, Is setting a person up for a lifetime of pain and mysery and depression. We already see that when a person feels unattractive they turn to sex for a way out, rather is with a trucker from down the street. or prositituting themselves on the streets in the big city. I mean would you want your kids being targeted by people who check for these things on the internet? To check to see where they can find some "Young meat to take?"
You website in the long run isn't helping people, it's just a lawbook for defending the perverted. I feel that maybe you should create a site focus on preparing people for the pros and cons of sex and not preparing minors to have sex with older men and women.
Jay

[AntiGuv]

The same could be said for straight pedophiles. So, what's your/his point? Otherwise, I haven't viewed anything else on that particular site, since my only interest was finding a chart of which states & nations have disparate age-of-consent laws.

If you are attempting to get me to concede that some individuals [of whatever sexuality] would have an interest in age-of-consent laws because of pedophilic motivations, I have no doubt of that, nor did I intend to suggest otherwise. If you wish me to accept that this is the driving force behind those organizations which have advocated equalized age-of-consent laws (such as the National Gay & Lesbian Task Force, the American Civil Liberties Union, the Lambda Legal Defense Fund, Amnesty International, the Human Rights Campaign, and the International Lesbian & Gay Association) then I will not because I do not believe that, nor will I.

[AntiGuv]

Might I also add that I have no particular reason to believe that the individual who sent that email is either gay or a democrat - although one or both is a possibility. I do however have strong reason to believe that the webmasters of that site are not so threatened by the insinuation that they would not make the email available on their servers..

[Paco]

I take a totally different perspective on this. I think it makes a lot of sense to legalize the "union" of two gays. If you make gay marriage a legal union then they HAVE to divorce to split up. Now, think about it...what two gay men really want to do that legally??? Not the one with the money! They know that 99% of gay marriages don't last and making the dissolution financially painful will do FAR MORE to discourage gay marriage than making them happen more often. On this issue, gays have to be careful what they wish for...they might just get it.

[VRWC_minion]

The gay's sites seem all too concerned about the age of consent for my tastes. 18 ought to be plenty old enough.

[AntiGuv]

The gay's sites seem all too concerned about the age of consent for my tastes. 18 ought to be plenty old enough.

In my observation, the activist organizations have been indifferent to age of consent in whatever cases that age of consent is 18 for both same-sex & opposite-sex relations. That implies 18 is plenty old enough so long as it's uniform.

If you can find evidence to the contrary [e.g. advocacy to reduce a uniform 18 year age-of-consent threshold], I will reconsider.

[No Dems 2004]

You have a valid point in that support for gay marriage seems to be slowly rising. While this is tragic, I must remind you that the most vote-critical parts of the country are more likely to be anti-gay than other parts. The South and the Midwest for instance are much more likely to condemn homosexuality than the Northeast. I'm a little bit leery of the Gallup poll, too, unless I see a consistent trend to follow in the polls they produce. I'd like to see other polls before I conclude that support for gay marriage is this high.

Others here have mentioned the Quinnipiac University poll which found that the South and Midwest were still considerably conservative on gay issues. Both the South and the Midwest were essentially evenly split on whether to legalize homosexual behavior between consenting adults. and the overwhelming majority of Americans in these places regarded homosexual behavior as morally wrong. However, in the Northeast, Americans were evenly divided on the morality of homosexual behavior.

It's clear that the regional problem will come into play in politics.

[VRWC_minion]

If you make gay marriage a legal union then they HAVE to divorce to split up.

They will marry and with probably less thought and restraint than hetersoexuals at least intially. Whereas heterosexual unions have developed various norms and practices over the centuires that attempt to get the partners to look realistically at their prospects, gays don't have the same culture to fall back on.

They will undoubtedly commit more readily than hetero's both because the culture isn't their to provide guidance and because their will be tremendous presue to be the first to join the bandwagon.

The fallout will be overburdened courts to handle the the volume of broken relationships. They will not only tax the court systems they may influence the outcomes of heterosexual property splits and custody battles. It will be interesting.

So, all in all I disagree. The aspect of divorce will not be a cause for gays to avoid marriage. In fact in a queer way, it might encourage it so that some gays can say they were divorced like their hetero friends,

[VRWC_minion]

In my observation, the activist organizations have been indifferent to age of consent in whatever cases that age of consent is 18 for both same-sex & opposite-sex relations.

When most states have the age of consent at 16 or lower you know I cannot. However, that said its still disconcerting that the rush to have ability to have sex with a minor generates so much energy.

Again, I could understand the case beign made that we ought to raise the other ages to meet the higher gay age but that isn't their quest.

The desire to lower their age to 16 in most states is in itself very telling about the nature of the importance of gay relationships with minors. One wonders why there are not enough partners at the age of majority.

[AntiGuv]

Evidence from European nations which have legalized marriage or civil unions suggests otherwise. Gays & lesbians are less likely to commit than straights, while those that do commit are less likely to separate than straights. One surprising result of Scandinavian trends has been that gay men are much less likely to separate than are lesbians, once they have 'married' (which they are also less likely to do than are lesbians).

[jethropalerobber]

All I need to is enter into a civil union with the person I want to sell to and there is no income tax on the gain.

so what? you could so this right now with an opposite sex partner. tax fraud is tax fraud and can be prosecuted as such - no new loophole here.

Health benefits for spouses will be at risk.

they are already are, despite the fact that less and less people are getting married. a company that wants to cut costs can always offer some lame excuse.

Divorce courts will become even more overtaxed...

and we should also discourage young striaght people from marrying for the same reason, right?

[VRWC_minion]

My prediction about gay marriage coming soon is not based on voting patterns. It is based on court rulings and the potential small state phenomena.

Courts will rule that its discrimination and states that have liberal representatives will eventually force something thru. Either way its coming and once it happens in one state the others will be forced to follow out of practicallity.

[VRWC_minion]

I would expect gays and lesbians to be less likely than heterosexuals to commit. But I also would expect a large percentage of them to commit without much thought.