Abortion Ship Heads for Controversial Polish Visit

Reuters ^ | Fri June 20, 2003 | Paul Gallagh

[nickcarraway]

AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch floating abortion clinic was due to dock in Poland on Friday to offer onboard abortions in a challenge to the overwhelmingly Roman Catholic country's strict laws.

The Women on Waves Foundation, which offers abortions in international waters to women in countries where they are illegal or more restricted than in the Netherlands, said the ship would dock at Wladyslawowo.

It was sure to face protests in a country where the Polish Pope John Paul, head of the world's billion Catholics and staunchly opposed to contraception, abortion and divorce, is a local hero.

"This is pure piracy," Bishop Tadeusz Pieronek, head of the Papal Academy in Krakow, told Reuters. "Even though it's happening in international waters, it's still murder."

Poland allows abortion only when pregnancy poses a threat to a woman's health, when the fetus is damaged or in the case of rape. Doctors face up to three years in jail for performing illegal abortions.

But Polish women's groups say that, despite their country's staunch Catholicism, between 80,000 and 200,000 Polish women still have illegal abortions each year, many by going abroad.

Women on Waves says a woman dies every five minutes somewhere in the world as a result of an illegal or unsafe abortion, and that it sails to countries at the invitation of local groups to provide safe and early abortions.

"NO WISH TO OFFEND"

"We respect Polish law and we don't want to offend the Polish people. It's a really difficult issue here," spokeswoman Jeannette Kruseman said. She said the group had consulted lawyers about the visit.

The Netherlands carried out 34,168 abortions in 2001, according to the latest figure available from the Dutch Health Ministry Web Site.

Women on Waves said the ship's two doctors and a nurse would take women aboard before sailing out to international waters, where Dutch law would apply, to offer counseling and abortions.

Around a fifth of the 34,168 abortions in the Netherlands in 2001 were done for women who traveled there from abroad.

The floating clinic, which set sail on Monday, is licensed by the Dutch Health Ministry and the group says its activities are all in line with Dutch law.

The clinic can provide counseling, health advice, contraceptives and an abortion pill and anaesthetic to women who are up to six-and-a-half weeks pregnant, Women on Waves gynecologist Gunilla Kleiverda said.

In the Netherlands, abortion is available on request up to 24 weeks into a pregnancy.

Women on Waves hit a raw nerve in Ireland in 2001 when its abortion ship docked in the center of Dublin. Ireland has the strictest anti-abortion laws in Europe, prompting thousands of women to travel to Britain every year for an abortion.

[Righter-than-Rush]

Murder is murder. Just prove that the fetus is a person and Roe v. Wade crumbles.

[Salman]

bump

[muawiyah]

NOt "prove" that an unborn baby is a "person", rather, get the court to change it's legal definition of a "person" AND reassess the balance of rights of the mother and the child.

For all practical purposes just about all the folks on hte pro-abortion side agree with the folks on the pro-life side about what is going on.

Unfortunately, a whole lot of pro-abortion people ENJOY the killing.

[Righter-than-Rush]

>>balance of rights of the mother and the child.>>

Well, if one gets the court to change its definition of a person, then the law would hold that parent accountable for the safety of the child. That is a step.

How do you think the court's definition of a person would lead to more 'ah ha' from mothers than in proving a fetus is a person?

[virgil]

Torpedo anyone?

[muawiyah]

A fetus is clearly a person, but not one protected under our laws (according to the Supreme Court). No "proof" is needed, necessary, or usable in this issue.

I would imagine several of the Justices obtained sexual release when writing the majority opinion in Roe v. Wade.

What you have to understand is that the pro-abortion crowd is not really interested in the rights of mothers - rather their interest is in having as many unborn children killed as is possible. No compromise is possible with that sort of evil.

[Righter-than-Rush]

Compromise is not my plan. Compromise is, however, the basis of the our adversarial system of law. While you are both scientifucally and morally correct about the personhood of a fetus, and while I wish the Melinnium were here now so that God's law would rule this rock, God is not represented in the court system to any meaningfull degree.

You're right that the 'proof' and the 'truth' against abortion is already here. However, there are few absolutes in court and, as 30 Years of Roe v Wade attests, truth has nothing to do with court decisions.

Yes, I do understand the mindset and schedule of the pro-choicers, feminists and outright greedy evil. I have no doubt that this portion of society is well reflected in our government system, including politics and our courts. That said, it does not change my last question. How do you propose one course, changing the rules, would accomplish more reality checks in pregnant women, than in changing the status of the fetus?

[rmlew]

Perhaps the Poles should use their 877 Kilo to deal with the situation.

[ChicagoRepublican]

This type of crap doesn't go over well with the Poles.

[Saundra Duffy]

I hope the medical staff gets sea sickness and pukes their guts out.

[proud American in Canada]

"How do you think the court's definition of a person would lead to more 'ah ha' from mothers than in proving a fetus is a person?"

I generally don't like to post on abortion threads, though I am pro-life.
But I have to say, bump, Righter-than-Rush, to this and to your other posts on this thread.

Legal gobbledygook doesn't help. What has made a difference is technology. Now people are able to see the tiny human being, they realize it's not just a "blob of flesh".

[Elsie]

Life imitating art

Remember the sick jokes from 2 decades ago, screen door on a submarine, etc?

Well, now we have a real, live (Ooooh)...

Boatload of dead babies

[Kuksool]

The pro-abort feminazis wouldn't be happy until abortion is legalized around the world. They have made abortion rights their religious crusade. It must really irk those witches that 2 nations in the European Union, Ireland and Poland, still have pro-life laws.

[Coleus]

ping

[ApesForEvolution]

Sink this ship...

[ApesForEvolution]

I'll see your torpedo and raise you two lbs of plastique...

[dagnabbit]

Hey Baby-butchering boaters: Your "Medical Waste" has a face.

[Rushian]

Too bad we don't have an Admiral Rudolph!

[Valin]

There's never a U-boat around when you really need one.

[victim soul]

Well its looks like "Old Europe" (The Netherlands) has found another way to lessen the impact of a growing Catholic population who is a leader of "The New Europe."

- Polish Genocide by abortion --

[dfwgator]

"We respect Polish law and we don't want to offend the Polish people. It's a really difficult issue here," spokeswoman Jeannette Kruseman said.

Hey Jeannette, "Idz do diabla!"

[AnalogReigns]

A sobering fact is that the Dutch's 34,000+ abortions a year is but 2% yes.... yes, 2 PERCENT of how many America is responsible for per year (at 1.7 million...).

The abortion rate (per person) is far lower accross Western Europe than in the USA.

In spite of our vaunted religiousity compared to to Europe, we abort more than them...... as much or more as the (forced abortions in China and (economically desparate) Russia.

[cyborg]

Wasn't there a movie with a fish that wore glasses and helped blow up U boats?

[JustPiper]

Thanks for this ping! I am a bit stunned! I mean My mother used the rhytm method due to Catholicism. And by the time she got to 1945 to 1951 she had 5 kids! Two girls were born just 10 months apart! Those two girls were given up for adoption by my folx for a better life. Abortions in Poland wow, Grandpa was right, things would change. For goodness sake my maternal grandmother wetnursed my Dad!

[Nebr FAL owner]

Better yet WWII vintage naval mine every once in a great while one shows up .

[cgk]

Update ping!

Posted: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 0:12 AEST

Abortion ship denied entry to Polish port

The crew of a Dutch floating abortion clinic is accusing Poland of denying their ship entry into a port in the Roman Catholic country, which has strict laws on terminating pregnancy.

The ship, which offers abortions in international waters to women in countries where the procedure is more restricted than in the Netherlands, was forced to anchor offshore after being turned away from Wladyslawowo on Friday.

Women on Waves head Rebecca Gomperts and local abortion-rights activists say they were told the port was closed due to bad weather.

However, they say while the ship was waiting offshore at least one other ship sailed out.

"The law is being broken, this Dutch ship cannot enter the port, although it has the right to -- this shows that Polish democracy is still very immature," Polish activist Wanda Nowicka said.

Port officials are not immediately available to comment.

"We will not allow the murder of unborn children in Poland," news agency PAP quotes right-wing MP Robert Strak as saying.

"We will follow this ship and block it. No one should have any illusions that this ship will enter."

Poland has one of the most strict abortion laws in Europe and Polish Pope John Paul II, head of the world's billion Catholics and a staunch opponent of abortion, is widely regarded as the country's greatest moral authority.

Poland's abortion laws have changed several times since the fall of communism in 1989, reflecting power shifts between right-wing governments and the post-communist left, which has liberalised abortion law.

Currently abortion is allowed only if pregnancy is a threat to a woman's health, if the foetus is damaged or after rape.

Doctors face up to three years in jail for illegal abortions.

Before Poland's referendum on European Union membership two weeks ago the left-wing Government avoided the issue in what was widely seen as a deal to ensure church support for a yes vote.

But since the successful poll the issue has re-emerged, with a group of MPs from the ruling party calling for liberalisation.

Women on Waves hit a raw nerve in Ireland in 2001 when its abortion ship docked in the centre of Dublin, but Ms Gomperts says the reaction was very different, with Irish police and port officials providing more support than their Polish counterparts.

[wardaddy]

Calling Das Boot!

[wardaddy]

Poland allows abortion only when pregnancy poses a threat to a woman's health, when the fetus is damaged or in the case of rape.

And to think...we make jokes of Poles. The joke is U.S.

[Alamo-Girl]

Jeepers! Thanks for the heads up!

[cgk]

And jokes about the Irish - they also prohibit abortions in their country.

[cgk]

Where IS Mr. Limpet when you need him?

[MHGinTN]

Being the frugal folks they are, these Danes don't waste a thing. The fetal tissue market now includes protein processing for cosmetics ... you know, those expensive French cosmetics that 'make your skin younger'? Nothing ripped from the bodies of these enlightened females is wasted, the tissue masses are valuable right down to the tiny bones dissected from the surrounding tissues. And the blood! Ohhh, how very valuable are the stem cells in the blood of these discarded masses. It is said the ship is busy and gay, music pipping around the hull, and never a whimper of cry is heard from the condemned ... but their life support system for the few months of their lifetimes go back to their places in the EU and suffer in silence, well, at a least one every now and then. But they're the acceptable losses, don'tcha know, in the great enlightenment movement now growing to its pinnacle in cannibalism for the greater good!

[Salvation]

Prayng that it will never arrive. Steering problems ot such!

[Salvation]

**ot such**

Or such

[ApesForEvolution]

Honestly, this is where the cost of civil disobedience and the lives of unborn children intersect, if ever there was such a place. I honestly couldn't vote to convict anyone that sunk this floating death merchant.

[Bonaparte]

Good for Poland! They're not going to make it cheap and easy for these sea-ghouls and their "clients," who will have to meet them at sea and be piped aboard.

[AlbionGirl]

God bless the Poles, and you too cgk, for including me in your pings.

[cyborg]

thanks!

[pttttt]

"We will not allow the murder of unborn children in Poland," news agency PAP quotes right-wing MP Robert Strak as saying.

"We will follow this ship and block it. No one should have any illusions that this ship will enter."

Outstanding. Better than the pseudo-Pole (actually half-Croat/half-Irish-American but he tries to sound Polish American for his Ohio rust belt constituency) Dennis "The Menace" Kucinich being pro-life ... until he started seeking the Democrat presidential nomination.