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The (NY) Times tumbles down
National Post ^ | 5/31/03 | Matt Welch

Posted on 05/31/2003 11:11:56 PM PDT by LdSentinal

LOS ANGELES - When O.J. Simpson was ruled not guilty of murdering his wife, the United States discovered overnight the chasm of difference in perception between blacks (who found the verdict reasonable) and whites (who found it insane).

Something similar is going on with the fabrication scandals that have rocked The New York Times this month. Elite reporters and editors are reacting to the Jayson Blair and Rick Bragg revelations with sorrow and anxiety, while the rest of us proles revel in the spectacle of a haughty institution being humbled and mocked.

Why are journalists so glum? Because The New York Times is their gold standard. It's the paper they all want to work for and, in the meantime, emulate.

"Its authority ... isn't just journalistic; it's downright ontological," The New Yorker's Hendrik Hertzberg wrote a week after the Paper of Record published a 14,000-word exposé detailing Blair's history of barefaced lying. "It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times defines public reality."

This will certainly come as news to the "public," 99% of which doesn't read the paper.

Such top-down thinking -- with the Times up on the mountain, handing down stone tablets of truth to the throngs -- is typical of those lamenting the Times' fall.

"The Times sets the news agenda that everyone else follows," former Slate and New Republic editor Michael Kinsley wrote admiringly in The Washington Post last week. "Our basic awareness of what is going on in the world derives in large part from the Times."

In Kinsley's elitist world, a story isn't a story unless the Times (or The Washington Post) says so: "It's true that the journalistic food chain runs both ways: Big media like the Times often pick up stories and information from smaller fish, often with insufficient credit or none at all. But it is the imprimatur of the Times or the Post that stamps the story as important, before sending it back down to other papers."

Readers -- not to mention the legions of quality reporters at the nation's other 1,500 dailies -- can be forgiven for finding this notion laughable and borderline offensive. Since when does a meritocratic country of 276 million weirdos need a single council of wise men to decide what stories are important?

Yet some people act as if our very democracy depends on this essentially undemocratic notion.

"America's readers need The New York Times to re-establish its credibility," warned Mike Clark, the "reader advocate" for The Florida Times-Union. "America's journalists need the Times to regain its status as a journalistic role model."

This last point is highly disputable, though rarely disputed. The New York Times publishes in the most cosmopolitan and competitive newspaper market in the country; its focus on global and national stories, and its tone of liberal intellectualism, make perfect sense in an international and Democratic city that already has three local tabloids and two right-leaning dailies.

Almost every newspaper that views the Times as a role model, on the other hand, is a local monopoly in a less liberal city. Chances are, it will equate success with such Timesian yardsticks as Pulitzer prizes, and (in the immortal words of Rick Bragg) the ability "to go get the dateline."

All the more reason why the Times' horrible month will be good for journalism -- if it causes papers to reconsider their newsroom values and journalistic role models, old bad habits may receive a fresh round of scrutiny.

Already, many dailies are tightening up their use of anonymous sources, which have long been the crutch of budding fabulists. Newsrooms across the country are conducting internal investigations to determine whether they could be fooled by the next Jayson Blair, and are looking for ways to interact more smoothly with their readers. According to The Boston Globe's Mark Jurkowitz, "The Saint Paul Pioneer Press and The Plain Dealer [of Cleveland] will soon begin sending letters asking people who have been written about in their pages if they had been covered accurately."

As importantly, the bulk of this navel-gazing is happening in public, giving readers a rare, transparent glimpse into the sausage-making minutiae of newspapering. A week ago, if you had asked 10 Americans about the journalistic significance of the word "dateline," nine probably would have said "that stupid entertainment show on NBC."

Now, after Times reporter Rick Bragg was caught filing evocative feature stories with datelines from cities he barely visited, and two weeks after Blair was outed as an out-and-out dateline fabricator, it's a household word.

And non-journalists aren't the only ones learning about this concept -- I certainly had no idea that such a thing as "dateline pressure" even existed, and only in the midst of the current crisis did I learn that Bloomberg News fudged a bunch of datelines from Iraq during the war. (The financial newswire announced this week it is responding to the controversy by scrapping datelines altogether ... the less the information, the fewer chances of making it up, I guess!)

Further, I learn by looking at my colleague Amy Langfield's Web site that, "There has been rampant dateline abuse by many news organizations for years.... Over the years, I've been told by editors to use the good dateline if there was a photographer there, or if a press release originated from there or if a completely unreliable stringer whose information we couldn't use was there." Who knew?

To be sure, there are more weighty and pressing issues facing the world than the previously obscure practices of professional news organizations. But it does make for amusing theatre, especially in an institution as humourless and self-regarding as the American press.

And it also has a strong upside, if journalists would just look at it from a different angle. Typically, when reporters see an imposing-looking glass house, they reach for the nearest rock. The idea, and it's a good one, is that excessive regard for any American institution can breed both corruption and servility, and will, in any case, obscure the truth.

Journalism organizations are forever agitating to strengthen various "sunshine laws," which already make most governing bodies more legally accountable in the United States than in any other country I'm aware of. This notion of transparency, too, is a welcome and democratic thing, and there's no reason to think it wouldn't improve the process of news gathering.

Newspapers, in theory at least, are attempting to help their readers become as educated as possible about their city, country and institutions. Luckily for everyone, the World Wide Web has enabled consumers these days to have an unprecedented ability to consume, debate and, most importantly, repackage their own news, from nearly infinite sources across the globe.

Every person who has created a current-events weblog -- and there are tens of thousands of them, at least -- has been forced to write headlines, weigh the veracity of sources, select an appropriate mix of stories, avoid running afoul of libel and copyright laws ... basically, to make many of the decisions that are familiar to editors everywhere.

This has created a revolutionary level of reader sophistication, one that savvy newspapers will eventually recognize as a valuable source of feedback and potentially bottomless reservoir of distributed intelligence. If a newsroom uses the post-Blair level of scrutiny to strengthen practices and improve the product, these people will be the first the notice.

First, though, journalists have to get over the idea that The New York Times "defines public reality" and gives the "imprimatur" of newsworthiness. The future belongs to those who talk with the audience, not at them.

"I guess in this era of Jayson Blair mea culpas, news agencies are wisely using this time to fix a lot of the grey-area dirty-little- secret stuff they've had as de facto policy over the years," Langfield wrote. "I vote for a long and painful confessional period in hopes that a lot of dirty laundry is aired and lessons learned."


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: datelinepressure; falsification; freelancerabuse; howellraines; jaysonblair; mediafraud; medialies; newyorkslimes; newyorktimes; nyt; plagiarism; pravdaonthehudson; rickbragg; scandal; schadenfreude; thenewyorktimes; turass
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1 posted on 05/31/2003 11:11:57 PM PDT by LdSentinal
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To: LdSentinal
America does not need the NY Times as it only gives aid and comfort to the numerous enemies of the Nation, both foreign and domestic. Only the Mass Media needs the Times as the benchmark of hypocrisy to emulate. The Socialists of the World seem to be the only folks for whom this rag shines as truth and a reference point to define the future.
2 posted on 05/31/2003 11:32:18 PM PDT by Jumper
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To: LdSentinal; All
-The Old Grey Info-Slut... the NYT/Jayson Blair Affair--
3 posted on 05/31/2003 11:50:52 PM PDT by backhoe (My Guns Protect Your Freedoms...)
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To: LdSentinal
It's the paper they all want to work for and, in the meantime, emulate.

Perish the thought.

4 posted on 05/31/2003 11:52:47 PM PDT by Imal (We could hardly call America the "Land of Opportunity" if we didn't have opportunists.)
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To: LdSentinal
When O.J. Simpson was ruled not guilty of murdering his wife, the United States discovered overnight the chasm of difference in perception between blacks (who found the verdict reasonable) and whites (who found it insane).

Wow, what a (deserved) slap in the face to a large portion of the black populace.

5 posted on 05/31/2003 11:53:54 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: LdSentinal
That the New York Times is still revered by the liberal newsroom elite says plenty about how out of touch these dinosaurs truly are. I'm almost sorry they've been shaken out of their coma - - I would rather these mice simply fade away as their newspapers slowly and quietly die off.

Meanwhile, maybe more publishers with guts and independence will begin looking elsewhere, the internet for example, to see what people consider "newsworthy", and forget about that discredited DNC mouthpiece, the Old Gray Whore.
6 posted on 06/01/2003 12:07:41 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: LdSentinal
Such top-down thinking -- with the Times up on the mountain, handing down stone tablets of truth to the throngs -- is typical of those lamenting the Times' fall.

Just a few years ago, people called them 'talking points'.

7 posted on 06/01/2003 12:12:35 AM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: Lancey Howard
Anyone who feels the OJ verdict is 'reasonable' has little respect for justice.
8 posted on 06/01/2003 12:16:02 AM PDT by Post Toasties
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To: LdSentinal
"It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times defines public reality."

This has been true. But why? The Times has lied for decade. Why only now is it an issue?

9 posted on 06/01/2003 12:20:20 AM PDT by DPB101 (Support H.R. 1305 to cut the Federal tax on beer in half)
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To: LdSentinal
make perfect sense in an international and Democratic city that already has three local tabloids and two right-leaning dailies.

Which ones would those be?

I guess you can count the NYPost as being somewhat right wing but beyond that which ones?

The Daily News - I wouldn't exactly call it right wing though you could say it isn't nearly as left wing as the times.

After that in the area you got Newsday and The Star Ledger of New Jersey. Both of which no reasonable person would call the right wing. Both are so far left that actually compared to them the New York Times is an ultra right wing paper.

10 posted on 06/01/2003 12:26:43 AM PDT by qam1 (Compared to George Pataki -> Hillary Clinton and Grey Davis are ultra-right wingers)
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To: LdSentinal
"The Times sets the news agenda that everyone else follows," former Slate and New Republic editor Michael Kinsley wrote admiringly in The Washington Post last week. "Our basic awareness of what is going on in the world derives in large part from the Times."

Incredible! The missing link has been found! A chimp that can use a keyboard! Making sense with it is in the evolutionary process.
11 posted on 06/01/2003 12:28:06 AM PDT by jwh_Denver
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To: DPB101
"Why only now is it an issue?"

Why now? Because only now have they been caught so red-handed, and it started with Jayson Blair. That just got all these self-important no-talents to start fighting amongst themselves, which is allowing a lot of other "stuff" to start leaking.

Well, that and the fact that the internet, talk radio and cable stations like Fox News Channel, have finally provided this market the competition that has long been needed. And just like people fleeing Communist countries, when given a choice, people will flee the leftist media.

12 posted on 06/01/2003 12:30:48 AM PDT by A Citizen Reporter
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To: LdSentinal
Remember, as bad as the Slum Sentinal is, at least they endorsed Jeb. The NYT is run by congenital socialists who even think RINOs like Patakifeller are "right wing."
13 posted on 06/01/2003 12:51:47 AM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: qam1
The Daily News - I wouldn't exactly call it right wing though you could say it isn't nearly as left wing as the times.

The Daily News is a "New Democrat" newspaper that is center-right on foreign policy, center-left on everything else.

BTW: You forgot to add the Staten Island Advance, and the Bergen Record (Nearly as bad as the NYT). People in Westchester tend to read the Times and the Post. "Snoozday" is as boring as Lawn Guyland (I delivered it as a child) and the Star Ledger is good for Paul Mulshine (my dad delivered it when it was the NEWARK Star Ledger).

OK, anyone know the newspaper situation in Connecticut?

14 posted on 06/01/2003 12:57:16 AM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: qam1
I think the other "right leaning" daily unmentioned is the New York Sun, which has a circulation of about 5.
15 posted on 06/01/2003 1:01:08 AM PDT by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: LdSentinal
The reason the media have a left-wing bias is because of this enforced need for diversity. It's not diversity in so much that it's actually "political correctness." This is what defines which stories are newsworthy and on which page they get printed. This is why, such as in the LA Times you can get a story about a "controversy" regarding the Boy Scouts an the San Diego city council over the extension of a lease because of the Boy Scouts stance on homosexuality, three days in a roll, all on page 5, when there was no controversy at all. Yet, you'll hear about the Jesse Dirkhiser case for perhaps five days, during the penalty phase of the trial, all captioned in one column on page 25. This is why you'll hear all about Santorum's comments, five days in a row, even though after the first day it was obvious the story had no legs.

Part of the problem with these biases is the left is totally unaware of them. They think their viewpoint is "middle of the road" which skews any viewpoint from the right into the extreme.

16 posted on 06/01/2003 1:43:17 AM PDT by Coeur de Lion
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To: LdSentinal
The Times sets the news agenda that everyone else follows,"

In other words, it's a liberal crib sheet. You don't have to work or think to be a reporter or editor on another newspaper, you just have to copy the Times.

17 posted on 06/01/2003 2:58:20 AM PDT by patriciaruth
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To: LdSentinal
Matt Welch is not exactly a "prole" to the news industry. Does this look like the resume of a "non-journalist?"

You're writing's good enough as it is, Matt. Don't lie about where you're coming from.

18 posted on 06/01/2003 3:27:35 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: DPB101
This has been true. But why? The Times has lied for decade. Why only now is it an issue?

For the same reasons that all the other issues we on the right have raised for years about fraudulent journalistic "ethics" never became issues until after Fox News, talk radio, the Internet, etc came along. The system worked just fine for the journalists (the public was merely there to shut up and consume), so it was never an issue. Now that we've got choices and have both the ability to question the questioners, and ignore them entirely if we deem them too biased, they are being forced to adapt or die.

19 posted on 06/01/2003 3:34:44 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: LdSentinal

Schadenfreude

This is the New York Times Schadenfreude Ping List. Freepmail me to be added or dropped.


20 posted on 06/01/2003 3:36:51 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: qam1
Which ones would those be? I guess you can count the NYPost as being somewhat right wing but beyond that which ones?

My guess is he means the New York Sun, a tiny paper of about 18,000 circulation that's only been around for about a year. It's very tiny in size too - one section, 18 pages day or so - but quite nice, though sadly, as you'll see from the above link, it's completely walled off from the Web unless you want to pay $1.25/week, which is why you never see a single article from it posted here on FR and also why nobody knows it exists. (They do offer a free four-week trial, no strings attatched, so you may want to sign up just to check it out. It is indeed staunchly conservative.)

Matt Welch is merely revealing his own biases by writing such a line as "three local tabloids and two right-leaning dailies" without explaining what the other "right-leaning daily" was. As you can see from his resume, which I posted a link to a couple of responses above, he's one of several "A-List" webloggers trying to start a weekly Los Angeles newspaper. So he and a certain few other bloggers were just rapturously celebrating the launch of the New York Sun last year, because it gave their own little business plan some hope. I'm sure that in his own mind, the Sun is absolutely as much a Regular New York Daily as the Post or the Times. However, it just isn't true. Most New Yorkers don't know the Sun exists, and won't for a number of years, at the slow rate the Sun is growing.

21 posted on 06/01/2003 3:55:04 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: LdSentinal
...can be forgiven for finding this notion laughable and borderline offensive...

Borderline?!

22 posted on 06/01/2003 3:56:20 AM PDT by mewzilla
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To: backhoe
All the news that's fit to slant...
23 posted on 06/01/2003 4:00:34 AM PDT by sauropod (Drill ANWR! Lay Pipe! Keep a Caribou Warm!)
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To: LdSentinal
The New Yorker's Hendrik Hertzberg wrote... "It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times defines public reality."

This arrogance explains the stark contrast of the "red states" and the "blue states".

24 posted on 06/01/2003 4:05:31 AM PDT by libertylover (A conservative is someone who can listen to Clinton for an hour and detect BOTH true statements.)
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To: LdSentinal
"The Saint Paul Pioneer Press and The Plain Dealer [of Cleveland] will soon begin sending letters asking people who have been written about in their pages if they had been covered accurately."

Why am I not convinced that this might get mis-used in the wrong hands?

25 posted on 06/01/2003 4:18:44 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: LdSentinal
"A week ago, if you had asked 10 Americans about the journalistic significance of the word 'dateline,' nine probably would have said 'that stupid entertainment show on NBC.'

"Now, after Times reporter Rick Bragg was caught filing evocative feature stories with datelines from cities he barely visited, and two weeks after Blair was outed as an out-and-out dateline fabricator, it's a household word."

It's probably a good time to buy stock in motel chains that have a lot of motels in small towns. If a reporter actually has to spend time in the place where his story originates, there is going to be increasing demand for rooms in places like Murphy, North Carolina. I'll bet that after Bragg's admissions every reporter in the country will have to actually spend time in Murphy to write about the Rudolph capture.

I expect that we will get some stories about price goudging by mom and pop motel chains next.

26 posted on 06/01/2003 5:19:57 AM PDT by Tom D.
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To: patriciaruth
I used to be a reporter at a Western Pennsylvania daily newspaper. The editorial page editor would sit at his desk twiddling his thumbs until the New York Times came in. He'd just about jump over his desk to get to it. I'm not kidding. So I wondered what all the hullabaloo was about and tried to open myself up to it. Even as a pup I thought its reputation was unwarranted. It sounded like some boring pompous guy at a party that you couldn't stand listening to. And I was shocked that it does not have a comics section. Really.
27 posted on 06/01/2003 5:39:00 AM PDT by duckworth
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To: LdSentinal
Celebration and and joy in their suffering is premature here. The Times is quite successful financially and is becoming more so. The Times, like CNN, is increasingly perceived as an international news organization not a national one.

I agree with all the criticism of the Times, that it is liberal, out-of-touch and so forth, but the real issue is the Times goals of international recognition and financial progress to the point of monopoly.

28 posted on 06/01/2003 5:43:40 AM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: Clemenza
"[A]nyone know the newspaper situation in Connecticut?"

The best known Ct. paper is the Hartford Courant, which has been around a long time. I have found it to be typically liberal when I have read it. There are probably some other papers there, but I don't know what they are.

29 posted on 06/01/2003 5:45:50 AM PDT by jocon307 (i just post without looking now!)
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To: LdSentinal
bump
30 posted on 06/01/2003 6:06:49 AM PDT by Freee-dame
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To: Clemenza
I can only think the other right leaning paper would be the WSJ....
31 posted on 06/01/2003 6:17:34 AM PDT by habs4ever
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To: LdSentinal
It's the paper they all want to work for and, in the meantime, emulate.

"Its authority ... isn't just journalistic; it's downright ontological,...It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times defines public reality."

Man, someone sure is full of themselves. Maybe they are stuck in a time warp.

Even when I was wanting to work in the newspaper industry, I didn't want to work for the NYT. I wanted to work for USA Today's Sports bureau.

Besides, maybe he doesn't realize that readers are down, advertising is down, and people can just as easily get their news from better balanced and ethical media.

32 posted on 06/01/2003 6:19:59 AM PDT by Maigrey (Member of the Dose's Jesus Freaks, Jack Straw Fan Club, and Gonzo News Service)
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To: LdSentinal
"It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times defines public reality"

No. Truth defines reality--public or otherwise.

"Why are journalists so glum? Because The New York Times is their gold standard."

I don't suppose it occurred to them to set truth as their standard.

33 posted on 06/01/2003 6:23:20 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Vote Democrat--the party of fools and scoundrels--to commit national, and personal, suicide!)
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To: LdSentinal
"The Times sets the news agenda that everyone else follows."

"Our basic awareness of what is going on in the world derives in large part from the Times."

This, of course, is an acknowledgement that the American "newsmedia" is a propaganda organ that speaks with one voice and from one point of view.

And this is exactly why the American public sees it as ridiculous and holds its so-called "journalists" in such contempt.

Evidently, all this is beyond the comprehension of these "journalists".

34 posted on 06/01/2003 6:31:05 AM PDT by Savage Beast (Vote Democrat--the party of fools and scoundrels--to commit national, and personal, suicide!)
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To: LdSentinal
;"It is scarcely an exaggeration to say that the Times
;defines public reality."
;
;This will certainly come as news to the "public," 99% of
;which doesn't read the paper.

Roger that. 'Till the Blair scandle broke I thought the NYT was 'just another newspaper'. One that, based on the few stories I'd seen from it, was either completely delusional or else a mouthpiece for the office of misinformation.

I had no idea that they were "the grey lady" or "the paper of record".

Exactly who believes such lines ? Oh right. The editors at the NYT.



35 posted on 06/01/2003 7:18:27 AM PDT by festus
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To: Clemenza
BTW: You forgot to add the Staten Island Advance, and the Bergen Record (Nearly as bad as the NYT). People in Westchester tend to read the Times and the Post. "Snoozday" is as boring as Lawn Guyland (I delivered it as a child) and the Star Ledger is good for Paul Mulshine (my dad delivered it when it was the NEWARK Star Ledger).

Actually I used to like Newsday a long time ago (10 to 15 years ago). The Daily News you can read in about 5 mins and the Times was always the Liberal rag it still is today and back then the Post was the daily version of the National Enquirer. Newsday used to be the only paper that had any substance. Unfortunately they tried to break into the NYC market and for some reason they thought they had to go ultra left and they hired (stole) many of the most Liberal "Journalist" from the Daily News and other papers. It was a big failure of course and they had to reduce their ciculation back to just Long Island (and Queens). It was really funny because a lefty journalist goal of course to be in Manhattan and now all these elites were stuck in the middle of nowhere(to them)on Long Island. Apparently Newsday still hasn't changed and is a left as ever.

As for the Bergen Record, I was thinking of it but it's just a cheap clone of the Star Ledger.

But Paul Mulshine?????? I guess compared to the rest of the Ultra liberal Star Ledger you can call him Right Wing, But for what I have seen he is just another liberal writer. Some of his recent coulums include

» Rick's views on rights are best kept private
» The right should back local filters on smoking
» Hating the French is a waste of time
» Smoke-free bars? I'll drink to that

Actually It seems lately all he writes about is How wonderful the NYC smoking ban is and how evil and rotten smokers are.

36 posted on 06/01/2003 8:26:41 AM PDT by qam1 (Compared to George Pataki -> Hillary Clinton and Grey Davis are ultra-right wingers)
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To: shrinkermd
Celebration and and joy in their suffering is premature here. The Times is quite successful financially and is becoming more so. The Times, like CNN, is increasingly perceived as an international news organization not a national one.

The New York Times company, which is large and diversified, is successful financially - though it's been meandering back and forth in the same $10-15 range for the last three years, and not particularly growing at all in terms of strength or power, much less marching forth towards any sort of information "monopoly", which is impossible in today's world anyway.

The New York Times itself, however, just the one newspaper, is losing circulation hand over fist, and that was well before the first news started leaking out about Jayson Blair.

And frankly, its "reputation" overseas is irrelevant, since it sells almost no copies outside of the United States, and over there they're just preaching to the choir. If their reputation is becoming "enhanced" in Europe, it's only because Howell Raines has pushed them so far to the left that the America-haters are finally accepting the Times now that they're "towing the party line." Since this is the same push to the left that is, eventually, going to cost the Times so many paying readers here in the US that Raines will eventually be overthrown and some sort of semilegitimacy restored to the paper, I can't get too worked up about it.

37 posted on 06/01/2003 9:12:18 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: habs4ever
I can only think the other right leaning paper would be the WSJ....

Only the WSJ's editorial page is right-wing. Their newsroom is as liberal as any other big city daily's. The WSJ has, arguably, the single strongest "Chinese Wall" between the editorial page and the news pages of any paper in the country. They have little to do with one another.

38 posted on 06/01/2003 9:15:13 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: Timesink
The editorial page sets the tone for the paper and gives it a legitimacy and respect in the business community that the NYT would never garner.It's a well know fact that that page is the most read in America, ergo..it has the greatest influence, so to the shallow minds found in today's media, it is a "right leaning" paper.
39 posted on 06/01/2003 9:18:06 AM PDT by habs4ever
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To: Lancey Howard
When O.J. Simpson was ruled not guilty of murdering his wife, the United States discovered overnight the chasm of difference in perception between blacks (who found the verdict reasonable) and whites (who found it insane).

I'm one white guy who found the verdict reasonbable given the incredibly incompetent lawyering on behalf of the prosecution. They sucked and the police (other than Furman) weren't much better.

40 posted on 06/01/2003 9:25:56 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Clemenza
OK, anyone know the newspaper situation in Connecticut?

Everyone in Western CT - that is, the outer NYC suburbs - reads the Post, Times and Daily News like the rest of us, except they usually take their diddly local town paper too, most of which are owned by chains large or small, and suck in the same ways local papers do everywhere else, including having overwhelmingly liberal staffs and editorial pages. Generally they'll read the local paper on the train into the City, toss it in the giant recycling bins on each track inside Grand Central (a great place to get free papers, by the way!), and grab one or more of the NYC papers at a newsstand or have it waiting for them at work.

A lot of people buy the Post as a second paper in the afternoon to read on the train home. I always have thought that the stupidest move Murdoch ever made with the Post was taking it off a 24-hour production schedule. (It used to literally publish edition after edition all day and night, so whichever copy you bought had news never more than a few hours old.) At the very least, he ought to bring back an special afternoon edition to just sell around Grand Central, Penn Station, etc.

41 posted on 06/01/2003 9:29:11 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: Labyrinthos
No kidding.

Van Atter packing OJ's blood all over the crime scene...

I am not sure I could have convicted him either.

42 posted on 06/01/2003 9:29:58 AM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: LdSentinal
Bump for later
43 posted on 06/01/2003 9:33:59 AM PDT by Richard Kimball
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To: Jhoffa_
We all know he did it, but our Constitution still requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Too bad someone forgot to tell that to Marcia Clark.
44 posted on 06/01/2003 9:35:52 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: LdSentinal
The American people do not need the New York Times to re-establish it's credibility. We need an honest press that is free of bias and will report the truth. I beleive that is true free speech.
45 posted on 06/01/2003 9:55:22 AM PDT by freekitty (W)
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To: LdSentinal
The entire country has laughed at the weight the "profession" gave to the NYT. We've almost rolled on the floor laughing as the media across the country obediently fell in line with whatever the NYT said. That's one of the reasons the profession of journalism has fallen into such disregard by the public.

Basically, the media has behaved much like the french, insulting their best customers and then wondering why their customers have looked elsewhere.

46 posted on 06/01/2003 10:07:00 AM PDT by McGavin999
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To: LdSentinal
Incredible!
47 posted on 06/01/2003 10:10:00 AM PDT by SkyPilot ("Don't believe everything you read in the newspapers." ----- Jayson Blair)
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To: qam1
This line mystified me too. I guess one of those right wing dailies is the newly minted Sun. It has been around long enogh to have had any impact. Very few people even know it exists. I live in Westchester County and the only place I can get it is at a local Mobil station.
48 posted on 06/01/2003 10:21:13 AM PDT by appeal2
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To: qam1; Clemenza
Clemenza: People in Westchester tend to read the Times and the Post.

And the multiple Westchester editions of The Journal News, a typically sh---y Gannett rag.

qam1: Actually I used to like Newsday a long time ago (10 to 15 years ago). The Daily News you can read in about 5 mins and the Times was always the Liberal rag it still is today and back then the Post was the daily version of the National Enquirer. Newsday used to be the only paper that had any substance. Unfortunately they tried to break into the NYC market and for some reason they thought they had to go ultra left and they hired (stole) many of the most Liberal "Journalist" from the Daily News and other papers. It was a big failure of course and they had to reduce their ciculation back to just Long Island (and Queens). It was really funny because a lefty journalist goal of course to be in Manhattan and now all these elites were stuck in the middle of nowhere(to them)on Long Island. Apparently Newsday still hasn't changed and is a left as ever.

Ironically, New York Newsday was not a financial failure, at least not by the time it was closed down. It was merely "insufficently profitable" in the eyes of a new Times Mirrpr corporate executive from the slash-and-burn school of business administration. He closed it and fired thousands throughout the company purely to jack up the stock price (and it worked, too). Karma eventually got him back, though, as you can read about in this article. (Of course, he walked away with a multi-million-dollar severance.)

Anyway, as I remember it, Newsday - and New York Newsday - were both always liberal going back pretty much forever. They were, and are, the worst kind of liberals, too - suit-and-tie paleoliberals who spend their days solemnly navel-gazing about the fate of the Little People, those who would never in a million years actually pick up a copy of Newsday themselves unless they desperately needed a copy of the help wanted ads. In short, they're dull, dry as dirt. The editorials are dull. The news writing is dull. The newspaper's design is dull (not many tabloids intentionally try to look like compressed broadsheets, but Newsday does).

Basically, New York Newsday never became a big success for the same reasons liberal talk radio is unsuccessful: There's no call for a "serious liberal paper" in a city that already had two liberal papers (the Times and Daily News), where almost all the TV and radio stations are "mainstream" liberal, etc; and because they're liberal, they're simply not enjoyable. Reading Newsday always seems like a chore. The only reason they make money like crazy on Long Island is because they're a monopoly paper out there, and it's almost impossible for a newspaper in a monopoly market to not rake in the dough, regardless of how good or bad it is. (This is why Gannett can buy a local paper, fire 75% of the staff, reduce the newshole by more than half, and leave a crappy shell where the newspaper used to be, and double or triple the paper's profits even while pissing off 90% of its readership: because the readers have nowhere else to go.)

49 posted on 06/01/2003 10:37:35 AM PDT by Timesink
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To: duckworth; Liz
I was shocked that it does not have a comics section.

It does, the NYT mispelled it long ago Editorials and no one caught the error.

50 posted on 06/01/2003 12:21:33 PM PDT by razorback-bert
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