Boastings of a Junk emailer. 125 Million emails a day. 45 million of us in his data base.

Opt In Real Big ^ | May 22, 2003 | SpamMan

[BJungNan]

The following is from the website of a junk emailer.

--------------------
FYI-THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 100 MILLION UNIQUE E-MAIL ADDRESS IN THE NORTH AMERICA. OPTINBIG HAS ACCESS TO NEARLY HALF

Here are some statistics and metrics by which we measure ourselves…

OptInBig:

• Possesses over 45 million online consumers in its database;
• Has lists available with a reach from 500,000 to up to 45 million online consumers;
• Sends out approximately 125 million e-mails per day and 700 million e-mails per week on behalf of its clients;
• Produces over 20 million page views per month on our clients’ websites; and,
• Delivers an average of 350,000 individual website orders per month.

*Pricing will vary on size, availability, frequency, promotions, etc.

For a free consultation and to learn which list is best for your current or future business needs, please call (303) 464-8164 to set up an appointment.

[BJungNan]

Upset by Junk Email? We bring it on ourselves - or at least those of us that respond to junk emails bring it on. This guy would not be boasting if he had no customers.

Don't under any circumstances respond to junk email. If you do, you have only yourself to blame for all junk email that you bring on yourself and the rest of us.

There was also an article on this guy by the WSJ which you can access Here

[martin_fierro]

Charges filed (and $16M civil judgement) against Buffalo, NY Spammer

Mailwasher

[goldstategop]

By spam, one means unsolicited commercial email the recipient didn't sign up or ask for. Its a pox on Internet business and the sleazy few ensure its difficult to next to impossible for honest people to make a living on the Internet.

[FairOpinion]

In my opinion, this is no different than telemarketers or junk "regular" mail.

I don't particularly like my mailbox full of junk e-mail, I have to work hard to make sure I don't accidentally delete legitimate mail, but I can delete the e-mails I don't want, just the way I can throw out the junk regular mail and screen my calls to avoid telemarketers.

The only ones I really am upset over are the junk faxers, who use my paper to fax me stuff I don't want and tie up my machine, when a legitimate fax maybe trying to get through.

[FairOpinion]

"the sleazy few ensure its difficult to next to impossible for honest people to make a living on the Internet. "

---
True, but one person "trying to make an honest living" is another person's spam.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't like it, but I don't have a problem with Spam, and in e-mails, as in junk regular mail I can look at it or delete/throw it away on my time line.

[BJungNan]

The only ones I really am upset over are the junk faxers, who use my paper to fax me stuff I don't want and tie up my machine, when a legitimate fax maybe trying to get through.

If your fax was running constantly, spitting out hundreds of Junk faxes a day, you would be really upset. Your mistake is that you think junk mail is not costing you.

The free junk mail they send out costs innocent people billions and billions of dollars in lost time and direct cost.

If something is not done, the net will soon be as unusable as are two of my email address. You should care. You should care.

[mercy]

I keep wondering when they are going to realize that spam does not work. I never even see the stuff. My filter trashes it without my ever seeing it. It never makes it to my computer. Surely most puter users have a filter by now. Why are people dumping money into spam? Talk about a mystery?! Surely they have a complete list of all the porn junkies extant. Why send all this other crap out to a filter program to be dumped? It's so stupid!

[Humidston]

At least 80% of my email is Spam. I hate it and wouldn't click a link contained in a Spam message, if my life depended on it!

May I ask, do you guys recommend blocking or unsubscribing?

[honeygrl]

I get upset with them because if I don't check my msn account atleast every 2 days the spam puts me over the space limit and emails start getting sent back so I miss emails I actually needed. I checked it yesterday after not checking it for 2 days and I had over 200 emails. How many were from places I actually do business with (i pay bills online) or from places I actually asked to recieve email from? Less than 10.

[bonfire]

Neither works. They change their addy everyday. I tried both.....and lost.

[FairOpinion]

But aren't we getting into some First Amendment right issues?

They have the right to send it. I have the right to not read it, but don't have the right to stop them from sending it. Maybe they could have something like the recent do not call lists.

[BJungNan]

May I ask, do you guys recommend blocking or unsubscribing?

I recommend finding one of the vermin in public and pointing him out to everyone. Then run so you don't get caught in the line of fire.

Short of that, never hit the unsubscrbe link as this confirms you as an active email address.

[Positive]

"In my opinion, this is no different than telemarketers or junk "regular" mail.

I don't particularly like my mailbox full of junk e-mail, I have to work hard to make sure I don't accidentally delete legitimate mail, but I can delete the e-mails I don't want, just the way I can throw out the junk regular mail and screen my calls to avoid telemarketers.

The only ones I really am upset over are the junk faxers, who use my paper to fax me stuff I don't want and tie up my machine, when a legitimate fax maybe trying to get through."

I agree entirely with your view. I don't want to receive smut or porno or dozens of duplicate offers for the same thing. At the same time, I appreciate ingenious sales presentations and high quality, unique offers.

So I scan and evaluate. After a few days (using reading glasses) the real “spam” takes no more than a second to recognize.

On the other hand, I have received “advertising” email and have purchased and been satisfied with a number of purchases.

The real problem is the many, many poor suckers who have bought into (as in paid money) these scams that make them think that if they “invest” a few dollars, millions of men and/or women will want to have certain of their body parts enlarged, etc. etc. etc.

[BJungNan]

But aren't we getting into some First Amendment right issues?

Hey George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin...this what you had in mind for first amendment protections. Definately not!

[Humidston]

I've tried both as well. This stuff is driving me nuts! It reminds me of telemarketers, but at least I have the satisfaction of hanging up on them!

[bonfire]

I paid for that thingy that keeps the telemarketers from calling. THe only ones that get thru are the Republican Party and they are relentless!

[Humidston]

Republican Party - HA! We just moved so they haven't found us yet... But they HAVE sent two "Spams" LOL!

[Technogeeb]

As I said in an earlier post, I don't like it, but I don't have a problem with Spam

That's because you don't understand what the spammers really do. They are thieves; responsible for over $10 billion annual costs to the Internet's infrastructure every year. Some estimate that over 80% of all email traffic, and the associated bandwidth consumption and server resources, is due to spam. And since that price isn't being paid by the spammer (nearly all get their connectivity through theft of services), it is being paid by the ISPs, and ultimately their customers.

as in junk regular mail I can look at it or delete/throw it away on my time line.

Junk mail doesn't come postage due; spam does (and worse, with no ability to refuse to accept it). By tolerating the spammers, you are tolerating criminal activity.

[FairOpinion]

"(nearly all get their connectivity through theft of services)"

--

THAT I do have a problem with, if they steal AOL screen names and passwords, as happened to a friend of mine. That is criminal.

I know there is a problem with Spam, it's just that if they send it legitimately (not from stolen e-mail addresses), I still think it's in the same category as "junk mail" and advertisement. The mailman delivers your junk mail as well, you receive it, whether you want to or not and you can delete the e-mail without opening it too.

[FairOpinion]

"The real problem is the many, many poor suckers who have bought into (as in paid money) these scams that make them think that if they “invest” a few dollars, millions of men and/or women will want to have certain of their body parts enlarged, etc. etc. etc. "
--

But those are the same people who become suckers for telemarketers or regular junk mail. We can't protect people from themselves. I think people should be educated and told to be wary, and remember that "caveat emptor". I think people who market fraudulent things fall into a different category and they should be prosecuted criminally.

But legitimate businesses advertising on the internet via "spam" is no different than when they run a TV ad and you sit through the ad, before your program continues, or when you open up the newspaper you pay for and half of it is ads, or when you get junk regular mail.

Someone mentioned another legitimate problem, when junk e-mail fills up the mailbox, so regular e-mail can't get through, because the box is full. I think with people having so many e-mail addresses and screen names, just as you have do not call lists, you could request no junk mail to certain screen names ( or all of your screen names for those who really don't want anything).

[FairOpinion]

Why not just use a filter?

You can filter out most junk mail with filters.

[FairOpinion]

"I paid for that thingy that keeps the telemarketers from calling. "
--

You mean that really works?

The way I avoid them is to have my answering machine screen all my calls, unless a number is unblocked and I recognize it. If a friend has his/her number blocked, when they start talking, I can pick it up, otherwise the machine gets it and the telemarketers hang up mostly -- a few actually leave a message, but so far I haven't had a problem of them using up my tape.

[Humidston]

Thank you for the tips!

(I particularly love the one about pointing out the vermin in public!)

[lowbridge]

Don't under any circumstances respond to junk email. If you do, you have only yourself to blame for all junk email that you bring on yourself and the rest of us.

I never respond to junk email, and yet I still find the number of junk emails coming to me growing, and growing, and growing.

In two instances a junk emailer used my real address as his phony return address. The first one was a junk email for a porn website in which case I got angry emails from people telling me that they dont like that junk. And in the other instance, it was an MLM business opportunity in which I got more angry emails, a resume from someone in India looking for a job, and a question from some interested person who asked me how much money was my business bringing in.

In BOTH cases I also got viruses sent to me by some anonymous, but angry people who thought I was the spammer.

[lowbridge]

In two instances a junk emailer used my real address as his phony return address. The first one was a junk email for a porn website in which case I got angry emails from people telling me that they dont like that junk ,p> Oh, not to mention the dozens of bounced back emails from undeliverable addresses to where the spam was sent to (using my address as the phony return addess)

[Concerned]

FAIROPINION WROTE: "but I can delete the e-mails I don't want, just the way I can throw out the junk regular mail and screen my calls to avoid telemarketers."

That may be okay with you, but when I received an email which asked how my mom was doing [she had just gotten word that her cancer numbers had dropped by HALF after beginning to use PolyMVA---http://www.polyMVAsurvivors.com and http://www.polyMVA.com]---I opened it, thinking it was a legitimate email. I also had some hacker hack into my computer when I "permitted" something which said my OWN IP address was trying to access something---the hacker had FAKED MY address!!!

EVER SINCE, I have had MAJOR computer problems, including not being able to turn on my OWN Norton Internet Security Pro software!!! EVEN NOW, I still have problems with being able to KEEP the Norton Internet Security Pro turned on with ME being the Administrator instead of the hacker!

I have WASTED WEEKS of time trying to KEEP control of my OWN software---all because somebody used a FALSE subject to DECEIVE me into opening their email and somebody else FALSELY made it look like my OWN computer's IP address was legitimately trying to do something.

I'd like to strip the skin off of their Viagra parts and then HANG those SOBs by what's left of their parts!!! I am SICK AND TIRED OF HACKERS and PORNO-PUSHERS!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Chandler]

Here's what I use: http://spam-stopper.net/

[Concerned]

MERCY WROTE: "Why send all this other crap out to a filter program to be dumped? It's so stupid!"

I filter out SOME---a VERY SMALL amount---via Earthlink's Spaminator. AT LEAST 75-80% of the emails that still come through are ALSO SPAM!!!

It is so bad, I am afraid to even download email into my computer again. I read it ALL via mail2web so I don't have ANY come to my computer directly. The ONE and ONLY time I allowed email into my computer, I have had computer problems EVER SINCE. See my post #26 for the rest of the story.

PLEASE...PLEASE...PLEASE...enlighten us as to HOW you keep virtually all the SPAM you receive filtered out. What software do you use? I want to get my life back. SPAM has cost me WEEKS and WEEKS of time trying to get control of my computer and Norton Internet Security Pro software again.

[FairOpinion]

"I'd like to strip the skin off of their Viagra parts and then HANG those SOBs by what's left of their parts!!! I am SICK AND TIRED OF HACKERS and PORNO-PUSHERS!!!!!!!!! "

--
I am in total agreement with you on this one. I think hackers commit a crime and they should update the laws and prosecute them.

Your post made me think that the real problem is that people lump e-mail "hackers &porno-pushers" in the same category, as business advertising via e-mail. I think the first category should be stopped, it's the second category I was defending, not because I want to particularly defend them, but because those are the ones I consider on par with junk mail, some of which could actually be something you want, the rest you can throw away.

As for your computer, I have been a victim a few times myself, and the only thing that fixed the problem is that I had to reformat my hard disk and do a pristine clean install of Windows operating system, and of course reinstalling all other programs. This may sound drastic, but you may have to do the same.

Fortunately I don't keep any of my data on my hard drive.

[kms61]

It is different in that they're highjacking the internet and using it for their spam. It costs the ISP's money, which in turn gets passed on to you. In effect, it's the same as getting postage-due junk mail, without the option to refuse delivery.

[kms61]

When the mailman delivers junk mail, the mailer has at least paid postage on it. The spammers are using the internet for free, and driving up the cost for everyone. It's theft, pure and simple.

[FairOpinion]

Sounds like someone stole your e-mail address and password, to send things from your own e-mail address. That is a crime, although I doubt they prosecute the, but you should immediately change your password, if you haven't already done it.

But sometimes they use your name with a different ISP.

E.g. you may have an xyz@aol.com address, and they send you e-mail from xyz@yahoo.com. That happened to me.

[Jay D. Dyson]

In my opinion, this is no different than telemarketers or junk "regular" mail.

Actually, the difference is vast. With regular junkmail that you receive via snail mail, the cost is entirely that of the sender. With spam, the cost is shifted to the recipient. You pay for your account for personal or business use, not to have it inundated with countless offers to...well, you name it.

As it stands, the latest estimates indicate that at least $4 of your monthly ISP bill alone goes toward combatting and cleaning up spam. Why should you have to pay to get rid of something you never asked for in the first place?

As for the run-of-the-mill arguments that being anti-spam is being anti-freedom of speech, that's just bunk. Free speech doesn't come postage due.

-Jay

[Jay D. Dyson]

May I ask, do you guys recommend blocking or unsubscribing?

Block it. Never, but *never*, send an "unsubscribe" message. That's just a guarantee for more spam since the spammer will turn around and sell your address to other spammers as a "live address."

Spam is smashed meat. Spammers should be, too.

-Jay

[FairOpinion]

http://spam-stopper.net/

---

Thanks. It sounds like an intelligent way of doing it.

One of my concerns about filters is that they may reject some important mail I want, but they way spam-stopper seems to be doing it is a good way, "have your cake and eat it too". Of course they charge for it, but it may be worth it.

[Jay D. Dyson]

Why not just use a filter?

You can filter out most junk mail with filters.

As has been demonstrated many times over, getting around spam filters is largely trivial. Sure, it stops the most rank of amateurs, but the committed spammers just change the wording a trifle bit and get right through.

Perhaps the best way to avoid spam these days is through blacklists (wherein you blackhole known spam domains) coupled with the use of whitelists (wherein you have a list of people with whom you regularly converse and a feature that will send a required confirmation to any new people who e-mail you). Since most spammers use forged addresses, those messages will never be seen, so the spammer's mail just winds up in the bitbucket.

-Jay

[FairOpinion]

Check out
http://spam-stopper.net/ posted by Jeff Chandler
in post 27.

I went to their website and was reading it, they have a very different, intelligent and probably effective approach both in stopping spam, while not accidentally filtering out important e-mails.

[Jeff Chandler]

I love Spam-Stopper. I use one email address for family and friends, and NEVER use it for any kind of registration. Then I create unique addresses for registrations and online purchases. For instance, for FR I use freerepublic@[myspammstopperaddress], for Amazon.com it would be amazon@[myspammstopperaddress], etc..

I created one identity in my email client for my personal address, and another for all the others, which are forwarded by SpamStopper to a different mailbox on my ISP. I get NO spam on my personal account, and if I start getting spam on one of the others, I just have SpamStopper eliminate that account, and I never see any mail from it.

I also spoof all my outgoing mail appropriately.

My system sounds complicated, but it's really very simple once it's set up. I could filter the individual accounts on my email client, but I don't bother.

[FairOpinion]

As I said, it's very clever.

I think of spammers as annoying, but harmless.

The people I have real problem with are the hackers who hack into your computer, steal your private info, or deposit Trojan Horses and mess up your computer.

I think many times people lump them all in the same category, and I believe one is malicious and should indeed be eradicated and a serious effort made towards that, those are the hackers and those sending viruses, etc. I consider these a major threat to the internet, not the ones who merely advertise in an annoying, but otherwise harmless way. These harmless ones can easily be stopped by something like that spam-stopper.com you are using.

[Technogeeb]

I know there is a problem with Spam, it's just that if they send it legitimately (not from stolen e-mail addresses), I still think it's in the same category as "junk mail" and advertisement

It's not. There is more than just theft of identity (fraudulent reply-to headers, etc) involved with spam, there is also the problem of the connectivity itself. You don't have to pay the postage on "junk mail" the way you (indirectly, through the bandwidth stolen from your ISP) do with spam.

The mailman delivers your junk mail as well, you receive it, whether you want to or not and you can delete the e-mail without opening it too

You still don't seem to understand. The mailman might deliver junk mail to you, but the sender of that junk mail paid the bulk-rate postage for it. As such, it might be annoying but it is at least legitimate. Spam is not in this category, because it is not the spammer who is paying for the delivery of their messages, it is you, even though most users (such as yourself) are unaware of the theft of bandwidth, etc. that has occurred.

I'll try to make it a bit more simple for you. Pretend your ISP is AOL. AOL receives about a billion spam e-mails a day. This costs AOL money (in both bandwidth, server resources, mail filtering software, developers, network administration, and various other tasks). In fact, it costs them so much money that dealing with spam is more expensive than dealing with "normal" traffic, since the spam makes up the vast majority of their e-mail traffic (over 80%). AOL hasn't been particularly profitable recently, but assuming that they were, about a third of your AOL bill would be costs related to dealing with spam.

Spammers are thieves. All of them. If you think some of them are "legitimate", then you simply don't understand how they operate.

[Technogeeb]

Why not just use a filter?
You can filter out most junk mail with filters.

No, you can't. By the time your client software "filters" the messages, the damage has already been done. Server-side resources from whatever MTA you are using, plus the bandwidth for the transmission of the e-mail, have already been consumed. Filtering might eliminate the hassle for the user, but it does nothing to eliminate the expense for the ISP. You still end up paying for the spammer's theft of services, the only difference is that it is now completely invisible to you except on your bill.

[Technogeeb]

I think of spammers as annoying, but harmless

Ten billion dollars a year in stolen bandwidth is not harmless.

[Jay D. Dyson]

Thanks for the URL. However, I have no use for services like that since I run my own servers and maintain my own blacklists and whitelists. Besides, I don't think I should have to pay anyone to stop spam when I can handle it free of charge.

Between the firewall rulesets I have in place (I basically blackhole all mail coming from Asia since they have the worst open relay and spamhaus problems) and the use of the Tagged Message Delivery Agent (TMDA, available at http://www.tmda.net/), I have spam down to a dull roar here.

Even as we speak, my systems have deflected over one hundred spam runs in the past 24 hours. Pretty grim numbers, considering that I'm only one of three users on that box.

-Jay

[Major_Risktaker]

I AGREE!

[Concerned]

JEFF CHANDLER WROTE: "Here's what I use: http://spam-stopper.net/"

Thank you for the URL. I trust you are quite satisfied with it? Which things did you purchase?

[Concerned]

FAIROPINION WROTE: "I think of spammers as annoying, but harmless."

FAIROPINION ADDED: "The people I have real problem with are the hackers who hack into your computer, steal your private info, or deposit Trojan Horses and mess up your computer."

SPAM IS NOT HARMLESS!!!!!

How do you think they are able to drop their trojan horses onto your computer? It all STARTS with victims naively opening trojan-laced/virus-laced email and then it attaches itself to your computer without you knowing it---until AFTER it happens and then it's too late!

And it keeps resetting itself every time you restart your computer! In my case, it keeps turning off Norton Internet Security at startup and won't let me turn it back on without jumping through a lot of hoops.

I could not even UNINSTALL Norton Internet Security when this stuff first started (I haven't tried since I have been able to turn it on again).

I have to keep restarting in Safe mode and reset to a time when it worked properly. It is a PAIN to have to keep doing it, but at least I CAN get access and turn it back on again.

Maybe God will save a special place in hell for them!

[Alouette]

The only thing I hate more than spam email is getting telemarketing calls ON MY CELL PHONE. This is beyond sucky. Caller ID always shows up as "call from unavailable" but unfortunately so do calls from my son, who lives in Europe.

[Puntagorda]

I personally get 300 emails a day - 80% are spam, the rest are legitimate customer contacts interested in our products.

Prior to adding a spam filter, I'd spend an hour or more sorting through all the email, trying to find the 50 legitimate messages out of the 300 spam (a lot of very offensive stuff there.)

This was costing me and our company a lot of time (at least 300 hours a year, not including spam induced viruses, spybots, etc.)

Four months ago we started using the FREE PopFile Baysian logic spam filter - which has the ability to learn from your actions what is spam.

Now our spam load has been reduced to less than 5 a day that slip through the filters.

I am not associated with PopFile, but is has saved us thousands of dollars in lost labor.

Find it at http://popfile.sourceforge.net/old_index.html

It's free, and it works.

[Jeff Chandler]

I'm very satisfied with Spamtopper. I used to get over 150 spam e-mails a day. Now I get NONE on my personal account, and I eliminate all the other acounts which start getting spam.

I also use their HackerStopper program. When I get the time I'm going to sign up for the service that hides my IP address.

[Jeff Chandler]

HackerStopper= = HackerEliminator