Marine Under Investigation in Shooting of Iraqi Soldier

Fort Worth(less) Startlegram ^ | 4/27/03 | AP Story

[PatrioticAmerican]

#110 - That abouts cover it.

[river rat]

Roger that!

The actions, followed by diarrhea of the mouth from this gunny -- is what you might expect from an excited PFC, or Lance Corporal......NOT a seasoned gunny.

The gunny is supposed to be the MATURE and LEVEL HEADED icon for the company.... Not the asshole..

The gunny was always the "clean up" man.....the one NCO you could count on to cover your ass or "make things right"....this guy was out to lunch with his MOUTH...

I really hate to admit -- that I would not question the killings of radical Islamic assholes - I just have a real problem with the gunny forcing the issue with his BIG MOUTH...

Semper Fi

[Central_Floridian]

(To post 176) No, people commit murder all the time under many circumstances with varying degrees of provocation. I agree that it would be a very good thing if more politicians had more real life experience in things they make laws about, especialy the military/combat/ defending freedom in some way. However, I would like to point out a couple of things that I believe are pertinent to this subject. The rules of war relating to the treatment of POWs have been around for hundreds of years, for instance it was considered barbaric when Napolean killed Egyptian soldiers after they surrendered, in the 1780s. Secondly, two wrongs don't make a right.
I would like to mention a story I think relates to this situation. In WW1 there was a Ten. soldier, Alvin York who fought in the battles of the Argonne. His unit was moving into enemy territory, up a valley, taking mg, artillery, gas attacks, and rifle fire from three sides. His platoon was ordered to take out some mg nests, and as they moved further into enemy territory his best friend, Cpl. Savage, was hit by a burst of hmg bullets. Cpl. Savage's body was shredded and sent flying 50+ ft. by the impact. York single handedly took out several mg nests, killing 32 German soldiers and forcing 135 to surrender, as he and the 6 survivors of his platoon began moving the POWs to American lines a German threw a hand grenade at him so York shot him, the only POW he shot (and very legitimatly, obviously). One other thing, at one point in the fighting York went past the POWs and took a Luger from a German major, it was hot and the major had no ammo left, which explained why York had been hearing pistol fire from behind, despite this treachery on the part of the German major York did not find it necessary to kill him. I believe this story is an example of an honorable, brave, and heroic American soldier. I read this story over two years ago, so I might have gotten some details wrong but I think it is pretty accurate.

[realpatriot71]

You have a valid point. I'm not so sure I want the guy to get a "pass," but from my personal perspective, as a guy who is not in the military and who has definitely never seen combat, I would have a hard time "flat out" condemning this guy. I don't think what he did was right, but I also think it wouldn't be right to take his action out of the context from which the action occured.

[XJarhead]

is what you might expect from an excited PFC, or Lance Corporal......NOT a seasoned gunny

He's with a reserve unit, right? Two weeks a year, one weekend a month --- that comes out to about 6 weeks "full duty" a year. In 20 years, that's 120 weeks, or a bit more than two years total service. That's less than your average corporal.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blasting reservists. I was active duty, but was in the Reserves by the time of the Gulf, so the unit I went to war with was a reserve unit. Our guys generally did very well. But often, the weakest part of a reserve unit are the SNCO's, because they lack the experience of their fleet counterparts. That's less true for resevists who served significant time on active duty, but if this guy was a career reservist, well, he just doesn't have the perspective of a fleet gunny.

This story actually pisses me off. If true, this a-hole made the entire Marine Corps look bad by doing this and then coming home and bragging about it like some goofball hyped up on Rambo movies.

[XJarhead]

is what you might expect from an excited PFC, or Lance Corporal......NOT a seasoned gunny

He's with a reserve unit, right? Two weeks a year, one weekend a month --- that comes out to about 6 weeks "full duty" a year. In 20 years, that's 120 weeks, or a bit more than two years total service. That's less than your average corporal.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blasting reservists. I was active duty, but was in the Reserves by the time of the Gulf, so the unit I went to war with was a reserve unit. Our guys generally did very well. But often, the weakest part of a reserve unit are the SNCO's, because they lack the experience of their fleet counterparts. That's less true for resevists who served significant time on active duty, but if this guy was a career reservist, well, he just doesn't have the perspective of a fleet gunny.

This story actually pisses me off. If true, this a-hole made the entire Marine Corps look bad by doing this and then coming home and bragging about it like some goofball hyped up on Rambo movies.

[river rat]

You can say that again.....oh, I see you did! :<)

Without doubt -- given that the columns were pushing through on public highways, through towns, engaging enemy out of uniform that were using civilians as shields or fire drawing bait, false surrenders, and civilian people and car bombs, all creating an unbelievable and varied "risk scenario" -- It was UNAVOIDABLE that were numerous killings that were "regreted" after the fact...

Young unblooded Marines - refusing to risk their or their brother's lives by cutting a suspect target any slack --- fired and later regreted...
These Marines come away with a lifetime wound - that doesn't bleed and for which they didn't issue Purple Hearts.

These Marines deserve compassion....and not arm chair general condemnation...

But --- the gunny in this instance, if true as reported - did in fact bring shame on himself and the Corps.

My prayers are with the Marines we lost, the Marines that were injured and the Marines that will have nightmares for the rest of their lives.....

Semper Fi

[veeman]

Kicking a man when he's down is cowardice. Blabbermouth is a moron and a cold-blooded murderer, and should be treated as such.

[VaBthang4]

Sounds like a Bronze star to me.

Semper Fi

BTW: He should've kept it within his unit and not said anything to the reporters about it. I dont care what publication he or she is from....a reporter is a reporter is a reporter.

[VaBthang4]

"Only question is whether these men had surrendered or not. He was probably wrong to kill the first man. We have to apply the same rules to ourselves as we do to the enemy, or rules of war are meaningless. The second man, who was trying to escape, was probably a good kill."

And brilliance walked in the door by the fourth post.

WTF is a good kill?

Any and every Republican Guard Soldier was [and still is] fair game. I dont care if he had buried them alive. "Good kill" you gotta be kidding me.

"We have to apply the same rules"....Jesus man get a life.

[b-cubed]

"He deserves to be charged for stupidity - you do that, you shut the hell up about it..."

yup... feloneous blabbery.

[berserker]

Sounds like "heat of battle" to me...

What a defense that is to a war crime.

[krb]

What a defense that is to a war crime.

That's the point. War crimes divide behavior into two categories, in the "heat of battle" and not in the heat of battle.

The list of things that you are allowed under international law to get away with in the heat of battle that you would normally be shot for is quite large.

Often times, heat of battle is the only real defense you have. The Nuremburg trials removed a lot of the "I was following orders" types of defenses...

[berserker]

We hung several Japanese military personnel for doing this to POWs. Of course, they lost that war.

[veeman]

Does anybody remember what happened to the war on terror? Iraq is a non-issue because whether it ever was a threat to the US is still moot (no WMDs & no Qaeda link uncovered).

Against the notions of 40% of Americans, Iraq had absolutely no links to the 19 hijackers who forced Cheney and Dubya to go underground. 15 of them were from Saudi Arabia, a desert patch run by barbaric ragheads who still behead people without even giving them a fair trial ( I wonder who will liberate the Saudis).

Binny is still in town, and the morons who ignored several warnings about 9/11 are still running the show. Now they're sitting on a report that shines the light on their incompentence and negligence.

Dubya's so-called war was a red herring. "So-called" because a military superpower cannot fairly claim to be at war when it's opponent is a ragtag pyjama-clad army armed with rusty guns.

If anything, the "war" on Iraq has earned America more haters in the Arab world. But okay, dubya's only concern is to make sure that 9/11 #2 doesn't occur on his watch. That it will occur is (God forbid) an almost certainty (as the CIA warned him wrt invading Iraq).

...and the beat goes on

[Restorer]

You are seriously contending that the rules don't apply to American soldiers?

Then on what basis do you prosecute enemy troops for violating those rules?

I believe we are the good guys because we follow the rules of war. We have no moral right to apply those rules to the behavior of others unless we follow them ourselves and punish our people when they break them.