Looters May Have Destroyed Priceless Cuneiform Archive

The Washington Post ^ | April 18th, 2003 | Guy Gugliotta

[wideminded]

You said this:

"This is more than probably propaganda/lies."

So you think the article is more than propaganda and lies. There must really be some substance to it then.

I figured you must have meant this.:

"This is probabaly little more than propaganda/lies."

[wideminded]

I took my nitroglycerin tablet.

Funny you should mention that. I was just thinking today that maybe I should stop posting on this subject because some people are getting so worked up that someone is liable to have a heart attack.

And I definitely don't consider myself a leftist.

[nopardons]

You pic nits, becuase you WANT to believe that America and the military are incompitant and worthless. Lies and propaganda is what YOU thrive on. Facts don't matter to you; especially when they shred your agenda.

[nopardons]

Worry about yourself.

As for me, I'm calmer and have lower blood pressure than you do, I bet. I just don't suffer fools lightly. :-)

Oh, and dear, don't imagine that YOU are really all THAT " important "; you aren't.

[wideminded]

It's only NOW, when it can be blamed on our military's lack of guarding them ( gee, they weren't sent to Iraq to be museum guards, for crying out loud ! ),that these hand wringing articles, by lefties are surfacing.

I'll grant you that there is a little too much hand-wringing in some of these articles. But I think the articles are surfacing because this is a major news story. The world just became aware of this major looting a few days ago. Even though some things may have been taken earlier, some of it may have been done by professional thieves with keys, Saddam et al. may be behind it, it still occurred. You seem to feel that even mentioning that it occurred is an accusation aimed at destroying goodwill toward America for our triumph in Iraq. I think that it is possible to keep these ideas separate.

By the way, see post #62.

[Ciexyz]

Lots of searing emotion on this thread. Here's my spin on the topic. If any of the tablets were broken, hopefully they can be pieced together, at least so they can be translated. Remember, many of the Dead Sea Scrolls had broken down into small fragments, and scholars were able to piece them into a coherent whole text.

I believe the looters understood the value of what they stole, and that they'll protect the items so as to get top dollar. However, the items may end up in private collections, held secretly for many years, not surfacing again until maybe the owner dies.

[wideminded]

you WANT to believe that America and the military are incompitant and worthless. Lies and propaganda is what YOU thrive on. Facts don't matter to you; especially when they shred your agenda.

Now you're talking crazy, man. In fact you're libelling me and I'd like you to stop that. But I'll probably just tune you out if I can.

By the way, my BP is 120/80.

[nopardons]

The loss of much of the antiquities made news ( at least in the same circles, that are just now, NOW using their possible loss to slma our miliatry ) when they happened...long ago. The caviling, gnashing of teeth, and finger pointing is specious; at best. That a bunch of FREEPERs, you included, who don't go to the threads about antiquities, ancient historical sites, ancient history, archaeology ( well, some mught have read some of them, but none ever posted, that I know of and I do go to those threads and posts; have done, for years ! )and now have been hyperventilating all over FR, for days on end,citing ONLY the exaggerated lies/propaganda is suspect; to say the least.

If you will notice, the propaganda articles are filled with innuendo,exaggerations, and impugnations of ONLY America and our military. There's been an overwhelming dearth of condemnation of Iraqis...ANY Iraqis, including the " looters ".

I saw the post you replied to and took it for what it was..." funnin' " ; hyperboly, laughing at one's own rant.

[Ciexyz]

On a similar thread recently someone posted: "Now missing, Tablet #30, Sex With Goats".

Anyhoo, I thought it was funny.

[nopardons]

In a childish sort of way.

Anyone who REALLY has an interest in ancient civilizations and Sumer in particular, has long ago read Kramer's wonderful books.The translations, therein are fascinating hand have NOTHING at all to do with sex with goats. What the show, is how much the early parts of the OT are similar to Sumarian myths, what wisdom these ancients had, and how little people have changed,in the time span of many so millennia.

Making nasty jibes against Arab " culture ", is based on erronious thinking. The true descendants of old Mesopotamia, Babylon, etc. ( from whence these writings come from ), are Jews and who the Iraqis call " Marsh Arabs ". Those Sunni & Shiite Arabs all came from some other region. Ditto the Kurds.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The true descendants of old Mesopotamia, Babylon, etc. ( from whence these writings come from ), are Jews and who the Iraqis call " Marsh Arabs ". Those Sunni & Shiite Arabs all came from some other region. Ditto the Kurds.

I would also include the Assyrians with the Marsh Arabs and Jews.

The Kurds are Indo-Europeans. Their origin should be traced back to whatever place is presently being pushed as the proto-European homeland (Caucasia, the steppes of the Don, Central Asia, etc.).

[nopardons]

There isn't a group, now, calling themselves " ASSYRIANS ". If there was such a group, then I would agree with you.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

There isn't a group, now, calling themselves " ASSYRIANS ". If there was such a group, then I would agree with you.

What do you mean no one there calls themselves Assyrians? Surely you've heard of the Assyrian Christians?

http://www.assyrianchristians.com/

This is the "Holy Apostolic Catholic Assyrian Church of the East" pejoratively called "Nestorian".

This is the address of their official website:

http://www.cired.org/

There is also a version of this group that is in union with the Roman Catholic Church who go by the name Chaldean. They both speak Syraic. I'd encourage you to follow the Assyrian links portion of the webpage.

One last thought ... do you have Goode's World Atlas? If so, turn to the map in the European section showing the languages of Europe and the Middle East. IIRC, Assyrian is listed and is shown in northern Iraq, southern Turkey, and northeast Syria.

Look at the cached pages here also (the actual pages seem to be down right now):

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Assyrians

[nopardons]

What we don't know, is if those who belong to the Assyrian Chritian groups are actually descendents of the original Asseryians, or mostly just peoples from anywhere, who belong to that group. Some may; however,unlike the several DNA tests on Jews, from almost all over the world,there is little proof.

Thanks for the links; interesting.

No, sorry, my Atlas is from National Geographic and my globe just has countries and water.

After the Versaille Treaty, the ME was cut up so, that people who thought of themselves as one thing ( other than Muslim, as that's what they think of first and nationhood last; if ever )often wound up belonging to someplace else. Even before that, Asseryians had been dispersed.

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

"Meanwhile, Dr. Daniel Jackson is on suicide watch. "

Hold it!

Until he is revived next season, he's still technically ascended. Don't put your suicide before his resurrection. Besides, SG1 only has to find an ancient sumerian culture to get replacements. Maybe the fishman in episode 12 can loan them a few tablets?

What fate Omoroka?!

[Fledermaus]

Hope they made copies! lol

[Consort]

It became priceless after they destroyed it.

[Truthsearcher]

I think you're missing the point.

Of course ancient Mesopotamian culture made advancement that all who came after benefited from. But that's exactly the issue, they contributions they made to humanity are what portions of their culture that has survived and flourish in later cultures, such as writing, wheat, etc. The sucessful part of their culture is passed on, it is the failed parts that sits museums. These part of the culture that didn't survive, these failed parts of that culture, although they satify the intellectual curiosity of people like you, are worth nothing in any practical sense.

The oil fields we saved will eventually provide the income that will feed real live people, I would not be so readily dismissive of their value compared to 5000 old tablets.

[Publius6961]

That's what cd burners are for. Scan em in, burn em, and if you lose the originals you still have memorex.

Hard to believe, isn't it, that a "unique and priceless trove..." never would have been photographed, catalogued or otherwise copied precisely for protection from ramdom destruction?

Isn't Iraq subject to frequent and periodic devastating earthquakes?
Political instability?
Invasion by aliens?
Did the world change the definitions of "priceless" and "unique" while I wasn't looking?

Archeologists and the other soft sciences have got to have the brightest people with the least common sense and sense of priorities of any human beings on earth.
Do they get tested for this?

OK, maybe not CD burners, but photography, microfilm and sketch books have been around for at least a hundred years!

[Publius6961]

Is that not worth a small amount of effort and risk?

We are all discussing the open barn door long after the metaphorical horse has left.

So it is perfectly appropriate to point out that microfilming or photographing the material requires a trivial amount of effort and zero risk.

Why would anyone stare at the spilt milk and wring their hands at anything more complicated?