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North Korean Fliers Said to Have Sought Hostages
The New York Times ^
| 03/08/03
| ERIC SCHMITT
Posted on 03/07/2003 7:52:32 PM PST by Pokey78
WASHINGTON, March 7 The North Korean fighter jets that intercepted an unarmed American spy plane over the Sea of Japan last weekend were trying to force the aircraft to land in North Korea and take its crew hostage, a senior defense official said today.
One of the four North Korean MIG's came within 50 feet of the American plane, an Air Force RC-135S Cobra Ball aircraft, and the pilot made internationally recognized hand signals to the American flight crew to follow him, presumably back to his home base, the official said.
The American crew members ignored the gesture commands, aborted the surveillance mission in international airspace about 150 miles off the North Korean coast, and returned safely to their home base at Kadena Air Base in Japan.
The official offered no explanation as to why the North Korean fighters did not take further action once the American plane aborted its mission and turned back toward its base.
The new details of the incident emerged during a day in which North Korea declared a three-day maritime exclusion zone in the Sea of Japan, signaling its intention to test fire a missile. Pentagon officials said it was virtually the same area in which North Korea tested an anti-ship missile on February 25.
Details about the intercept, which came to light after military officials interviewed the flight crew, suggest that the more than 15 Americans aboard faced greater peril than was previously known. Ignoring a fighter pilot's order to land, even in international airspace, could have led to the plane's downing, military officials said today.
"Clearly, it appears their intention was to divert the aircraft to North Korea, and take it hostage," the official said.
The disclosure of what appeared to have been a plan to force down the aircraft came during a broad-ranging interview about the North Korean nuclear crisis with the senior Defense Department official.
In April 2001, a United States Navy surveillance plane collided with a Chinese fighter that was closely tailing it. The plane, an American EP-3E, was forced to make an emergency landing on Hainan island in China. The 24-member crew was detained for 11 days.
Pentagon officials have acknowledged they were caught off guard by the intercept on Saturday night Sunday morning in Korea and did not scramble American fighters during the 22 minutes the North Korean jets tailed the four-engine Air Force reconnaissance plane. North Korea's air force is so strapped for fuel and spare parts, its pilots fly only about 13 hours of training missions a year, and rarely stray from their home skies.
Despite the growing tensions over North Korea's push to build a nuclear arsenal, there has not been a serious aerial confrontation between the two countries since North Korea shot down an unarmed American EC-121 reconnaissance plane in 1969, killing 31 American airmen.
For these reasons, Pentagon officials say there is little doubt that the North Korean mission was a well-planned operation that used its top pilots flying two MIG-29's and two MIG-23's.
Pentagon officials acknowledged that there was no way to be certain of the North Korean plan to divert the American plane to the North. There were no radio communications between the aircraft.
They added that the North Korean jets had not "locked on" to the American surveillance plane with their firing radar, as initially suspected apparently because they were carrying heat-seeking missiles that did not require "fire-control radar" to guide the weapons to their targets.
Nonetheless, officials at the Pentagon and the United States Pacific Command in Hawaii are working out details of plans to protect the reconnaissance flights when they resume shortly. Officials said they were balancing the need to ensure the crew's safety and not be intimidated by the North Koreans, while trying to avoid steps that could unintentionally set off hostilities.
Military officials said that American fighters would not closely escort unarmed reconnaissance planes, but could fly patrols near by. One senior military official said that the Navy might dispatch one of its Aegis-class cruisers to the Sea of Japan to provide early warning of any North Korean flights.
The Cobra Ball reconnaissance planes are highly specialized military versions of a Boeing 707 that monitor ballistic-missile launchings and provide early warning of any firings.
In addition to the shooting down of the EC-121 aircraft in 1969, four North Korean patrol boats seized the Navy intelligence ship Pueblo in January 1968. In response, President Lyndon B. Johnson sent two squadrons of fighter planes to South Korea, called up 15,000 Air Force and Navy reservists and ordered the aircraft carrier Enterprise to a position about 200 miles off the North Korean coast. The Pueblo's 82 crew members were released in December of that year, but the North Koreans kept the ship.
TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aircraft; airforce; aviation; cobraball; forcedlanding; hostages; isolatedincidents; maritimeexclusion; migs; missiles; missiletest; missiletests; nk; nkmigs; northkorea; northkoreanmigs; plane; rc135s; reconplane; seaofjapan; spyplane; terrorism
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1
posted on
03/07/2003 7:52:32 PM PST
by
Pokey78
To: Pokey78
looks like the KN commies learned well from the Chinese commies.
To: Texas_Jarhead
KN = NK
To: Pokey78
"the pilot made internationally recognized hand signals to the American flight crew"
I would bet the flight crew made a different 'internationally recognized hand signal' right back at them.....
4
posted on
03/07/2003 8:01:45 PM PST
by
tarawa
To: Pokey78
Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but why do we allow these very precious surveillance aircraft, this one and the one the Red Chinese took, to fly solo without fighter escort.
I know they're flying in international airspace, but the Commies don't respect it, and these planes make very tempting targets for them. I would give fighter escorts, so the Commies are kept a safe distance away.
Do you send your relatives to bad neighborhood alone? No, you go with them and pack heat. So should the USAF & USN.
5
posted on
03/07/2003 8:01:52 PM PST
by
tomahawk
To: Pokey78
These guys are really asking for the crap to be bombed out of them, aren't they? After what happened with China, I don't think that landing in NK would have been an option. Either get to SK or ditch. Then, throw the fighters in the sky and finish off each and every nuclear plant.
6
posted on
03/07/2003 8:03:14 PM PST
by
July 4th
To: Pokey78
china = North Korea = commies = both are the enemy!
7
posted on
03/07/2003 8:06:41 PM PST
by
TLBSHOW
(God Speed as Angels trending upward dare to fly Tribute to the Risk Takers)
To: Texas_Jarhead
They didn't learn very well. It's a different proposition forcing down a large four-engined jet over the Sea of Japan than a small turboprop aircraft over the South China Sea. For one thing, help was a thousand miles closer.
8
posted on
03/07/2003 8:09:05 PM PST
by
jimtorr
To: tomahawk
Imagine if they got that plane, what technology they would transfer.
9
posted on
03/07/2003 8:09:24 PM PST
by
CJ Wolf
(Cobra Balls needs protection)
To: Pokey78
They were most likely looking for FOOD.
10
posted on
03/07/2003 8:09:55 PM PST
by
Newbomb Turk
(Hey Newbomb, Where's your brothers ElCamino?)
To: tarawa
The crew aboard the RC-130 made internationally recognized hand signals to their Mig pursuers.

Which enflamed tensions resulting in the splashing of a Mig.
The others turned back to base.
11
posted on
03/07/2003 8:10:48 PM PST
by
PhilDragoo
(Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
To: Pokey78
Hmmmm?? Looks like I was right - their stunt was a dry run.
12
posted on
03/07/2003 8:11:34 PM PST
by
CyberAnt
( -> -> -> Oswego!!)
To: tarawa
LOL.
To: jimtorr
ok, I stand corrected. They learned but not well. Better?
To: Pokey78
In April 2001, a United States Navy surveillance plane collided with a Chinese fighter that was closely tailing it. Let's see, was the editor asleep at the switch (preposition at end of sentence), or was the editor happy with the inference that the U.S. plane hit the fighter, and not the other way around? Tough one.
15
posted on
03/07/2003 8:12:36 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
To: jimtorr
. . . small turboprop aircraft . . . Small? I think you may be hearing from some P-3 Orion crew members.
To: Pokey78
Pentagon officials have acknowledged they were caught off guard by the intercept on Saturday night
There was absolutely NO EXCUSE for this stupidity of having no fighter escort
Sure as hell doesn't fill me with confidence in our leaders
17
posted on
03/07/2003 8:14:37 PM PST
by
uncbob
( building tomorrow)
To: 1rudeboy
You don't know anything, do you?
The U.S.'s nimble, high-performance hegemonous recon plane made a "big left move" before Wang Wei could move his slow, lumbering fighter jet out of the way.
You are obviously a running dog lackey of the Bowery Street billionaires.
To: Pokey78
I'm not trying to underestimate th North Koreans, but the threats they make are just plain stupid. They obviously have no grasp of American thinking. They wallow in lameness.
19
posted on
03/07/2003 8:16:05 PM PST
by
Spruce
To: uncbob
If the Pentagon got caught with their pants down on this one, what are they going to do when we do Iraq? Has affirmative action completely ruined the military brass?
20
posted on
03/07/2003 8:16:52 PM PST
by
tomahawk
To: tomahawk
If the Pentagon got caught with their pants down on this one, what are they going to do when we do Iraq? Has affirmative action completely ruined the military brass?
Sure is scary
I am concerned about the military leadership after 8 years of Clinton's PC BS
They ought to call Schwartzkopf in for consult
He ought to have some pipeline into who the hell is dependable and who isn't
Bush ought to can every Clinton type even if it means making colonels two star generals
21
posted on
03/07/2003 8:23:37 PM PST
by
uncbob
( building tomorrow)
To: AmericanInTokyo
Ping.
22
posted on
03/07/2003 8:28:07 PM PST
by
Constitution Day
(No, I will not "get over it".)
To: leadpenny; jimtorr; All
"
I think you may be hearing from some P-3 Orion crew members." You called?
The ORION (and its sibling, the EP-3 ARIES, which was the one forced down in China) weigh up to 200,000 pounds at takeoff, have a 100-foot wingspan, and four gigantic, 5,000 horsepower engines. "SMALL"???
BTW, for those asking, reconnaisance birds like the RC-135, P-3, and EP-3 almost never fly with fighter escorts, on any mission. For one thing, we're a lot slower, so thew fighters have a tough time maintaining controllability at the slower speeds, and for another, fighters attract attention immediately.
There is a REASON that most recon-type birds are derived from civilian airliners, and it's not just about the size...
23
posted on
03/07/2003 8:28:20 PM PST
by
Long Cut
(ORION Naval Aircrewman!)
To: tomahawk
I heard somewhere, (bear with me, I am a news hound, and can't keep my sources straight), we are contemplating providing fighter escorts to these surveillance flights. I do not know the pros or cons of such a plan, however.
24
posted on
03/07/2003 8:30:48 PM PST
by
Pan_Yans Wife
(Lurking since 2000.)
To: American Soldier
Clearly, the name "Cobra Ball" is a phallic and militaristic manifestation of our male-dominated, oppressive cultural milieu, and can be perceived by any progressive gay/lesbian/bisexual/trans-gendered/questioning individual as a form of hate speech.
25
posted on
03/07/2003 8:30:49 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
(it's "hegemonic")
To: uncbob
There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not knowing the range limitations of a fighter escort.
To: Pokey78
DPRK is really asking to be thouroughly and unabashedly trashed!!!! They are most likely going to get their wish.
27
posted on
03/07/2003 8:33:12 PM PST
by
Defender2
(Defending Our Bill of Rights, Our Constitution, Our Country and Our Freedom!!!!)
To: Pokey78
So where are the peacenicks protesting Koreas aggression?
To: Pokey78
And their "wish" is to be TRASHED!!!!
29
posted on
03/07/2003 8:34:05 PM PST
by
Defender2
(Defending Our Bill of Rights, Our Constitution, Our Country and Our Freedom!!!!)
To: PhilDragoo
Dude, time for that pilot to pull that little yellow metal thingie between his legs.
30
posted on
03/07/2003 8:35:26 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
(it's "hegemonic")
To: 1rudeboy
Let's see, was the editor asleep at the switch (preposition at end of sentence), or was the editor happy with the inference that the U.S. plane hit the fighter, and not the other way around? Tough one.Considering that the word "it" is a pronoun, it must be the latter.
To: CJ Wolf
They would probably sell it back to us like the Chinese, that would probably quadrouple their whole GDP for a year.
32
posted on
03/07/2003 8:41:43 PM PST
by
Husker24
To: Pokey78
"Pyongyang" is onomatopoeic. It is the sound that a nuclear missile makes when it impacts the North Korean capitol.
33
posted on
03/07/2003 8:42:51 PM PST
by
TruthShallSetYouFree
(Boy am I glad Clinton isn't the president. Or Gore.)
To: tarawa
["the pilot made internationally recognized hand signals to the American flight crew"]
I would bet the flight crew made a different 'internationally recognized hand signal' right back at them.....
Heh heh. Would love to see the video.
To: Physicist
Ouch. I stand corrected. And by someone with a slide-rule, no less.
35
posted on
03/07/2003 8:45:30 PM PST
by
1rudeboy
To: Long Cut
Thank you, fellow E-RAU graduate.
To: American Soldier
Hopefully soon we'll have small, pilotless fighter drones that will calmly tag along for support.
Without having to worry about G's, these babies should be able to out-hussle any manned fighter.
Damn, I'd HATE to be a fighter pilot and see such a drone pull up beside me. It'd be terrifying knowing that that thing can do all kinds of things I can't and even if I win a dog fight with it, the other pilot will still go home for dinner and his buddy will zip another one in my airspace.
37
posted on
03/07/2003 8:57:19 PM PST
by
jigsaw
To: Pokey78
And now for tonight's entertainment we offer this little report from the KOREAN CENTRAL NEWS AGENCY of DPRK.
KCNA refutes Bush's bellicose remarks
Pyongyang, March 7 (KCNA) -- U.S. President Bush Tuesday said in an interview with 14 newspapers from around the country that if the diplomatic effort fails to solve North Korea's "nuclear issue," "a military option is its last choice." He referred to the "military option" again after he disclosed that the "United States is keeping all options on the table in dealing with North Korea." It is a very dangerous war outcry driving the military situation on the Korean Peninsula to the brink of war as it is an undisguised revelation of the U.S. intention to make a preemptive strike at the DPRK's nuclear facilities for a peaceful purpose. As far as the U.S. much-publicized "nuclear issue" on the Korean Peninsula is concerned, it can surely be solved if the U.S. has a will to settle it through dialogues and negotiations with the DPRK. By nature, the DPRK's "nuclear issue" is a product of the U.S. hostile policy towards the DPRK as it is a fiction Washington dreamed up in a bid to disarm Pyongyang and bring it to its knees by forcing it to scrap its nuclear program before dialogue.
In peddling the fiction about the DPRK's "nuclear development" the U.S. sought to contain the DPRK and bring it to collapse by force.
To this end the U.S. launched a large-scale "Foal Eagle" joint military exercise in South Korea.
The U.S.-led joint military maneuvers are a replica of the "Team Spirit" joint military exercise in view of their scale, nature, purpose and method of training and a test nuclear war, a preliminary war to seize the DPRK by force.
This sabre rattling is under way at a time when the DPRK-U.S. confrontation is escalating and going beyond the danger line. This goes to prove that the scenario for a preemptive attack on the DPRK on Bush's table is being put into practice.
Bush's remarks on "military option" are little short of a signal to go into action against the DPRK.
No one can vouch that on-going large-scale military exercises will not go over to a nuclear war any time.
The DPRK is following the dangerous military moves of the U.S. with a high degree of revolutionary vigilance and getting fully ready to go into action. The DPRK wants peace but never begs for it. It neither wants war nor avoids it.
The people and the people's army of the DPRK will react to the U.S. "military option" with a strong counteraction and counter an all-out war with an all-out war.
If the U.S. unleashes a war despite the DPRK's repeated warnings it will wipe out the aggressors to the last man by promptly using as many combat means as the U.S. mobilized.
From the KOREAN CENTRAL NEWS AGENCY of DPRK
38
posted on
03/07/2003 9:07:27 PM PST
by
ganeshpuri89
(We miss you Daniel Pearl)
To: Pokey78
They're really looking for it..
To: Long Cut
However you slice it, they're both big aircraft.
RC-135S COBRA BALL
EP-3E ARIES II
To: Pokey78
The Red Chinese do not want the Korean peninsula to develop. The story there, is that Japan and Russia have major railroad projects in development, to upgrade the Trans-Siberian Railroad. That includes a leg, running down through the entire Korean peninsula, linking South Korea with Russia and Eurasia by overland means, instead of the current limitations and costs by overseas. The expectation is, that North Korea's economy will both be lifted up by the railroad's presence, and then expand upon it. The Red Chinese, however, want both a military buffer and an economic buffer around Red China; they simply do not want any competition "close to home."
In general, the countries who are all in a tizzy, are doing what they've done over the millenia --- they "promote" terrorism to control commerce, to their favor; the use of terrorism, to control trade routes, is literally "as old as the hills." That, is where the issue of oil comes in; because they want to control it likewise.
The present crisis is, that "the West" is naturally opposed to terrorism, it's been outlawed. If there's to be coercion, it is to happen in the court room, oozing from the lawyers' vast arsenal of re-interpreted meanings of words which daily make the statutes meaning---less, thus making the game insidiously interesting.
"Peace" will break out in this world, when the older regions abandon terrorism's bombs, bullets, and bugs ... and take up studying law at Yale, whence the Red Chinese and other communist dullards, for example, will begin to appreciate slowly squeezing the life out of one's enemy, by "other means," velly inscrutable.
To: CJ Wolf
Wolf you are deeply mistaken, all crypto gear aboard would be zeroized, meaning all crypto that had been punched for that day, that mission, would have been deleted! I know this information for sure, I had for your eyes only, top secret clearance, using radio encryption gear. I cannot say in any more depth, I know you understand, Semper fi, once a marine, always a marine! Take it one day at a time! David. Also all top secret gear aboard, would be destroyed in a certain method to ensure the enemy would not get any information, or technology what so ever!
42
posted on
03/07/2003 9:37:32 PM PST
by
ibtheman
Comment #43 Removed by Moderator
To: tomahawk
#5
I guess you are not an USAF vet.
Recce crews troll for more than than overtly "obvious" information gathering functions.
That's one of the reasons why pilots and crew are revered,in the USAF.For every one in the air, are a thousand on the ground, doing thier best to make sure the one has all they need.The one in the air has all the danger.They get killed in peacetime, and you dont see many media reports on it.
Do you ask why an Army Special Forces guy did not have mechanised back up?
It's a dangerous job, every single day, on multiple levels.
44
posted on
03/07/2003 9:54:13 PM PST
by
sarasmom
(tick,tick, to...)
Comment #45 Removed by Moderator
To: jimtorr
The EEP-3 is a turboprop, but it's also four engine and not particularly small.
As for fighter escort....a relative is a crewman on the EP-3, which is the Navy's version of Cobra Ball aircraft, more or less. When he's flown in other high threat areas they've had fighter escort, but since there's such a differential between the ranges of the surveillance plane and escorts, it would take either relays of fighters or a tanker tagging along the whole way....
I suppose in this area, since it's been years since they last had an interception like this, the Command deemed escorts unnecessary. Clearly a mistake, albeit an understandable one, in my estimation.
46
posted on
03/07/2003 10:17:56 PM PST
by
kms61
To: Long Cut
Yer # 23 - nicely done, pal.............FRegards
47
posted on
03/07/2003 10:18:27 PM PST
by
gonzo
(How does a man show that he's planning for the future? ....He buys two cases of beer...)
To: 1rudeboy
The New York Times is still mourning the death of hot-dog moron Wang Wei. If the NY Times had its way, all of our crew members probably would've been hanged instead of freed.
To: Long Cut
LOL. As soon as someone mentioned the Orion I knew you would be on this thread.
Fly safe, shipmate!!!
49
posted on
03/08/2003 3:17:58 AM PST
by
Ronin
To: TLBSHOW
"china = North Korea = commies = both are the enemy!"
Problem only is the US has allowed China to take over "capitalism", as in dominating and exploiting world commerce, while remaining cummunist. Smart little bastards!
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