Pope Steps Up Anti-war Crusade With Call For Christians To Fast

AFP ^

[goodseedhomeschool]

They do think that, it is in their writings.

[Petronski]

I have no problem fasting for a peaceful liberation of Iraq.

[dighton]

I am SO going to break my diet tomorrow... I'll call it the "Big Feast for *Real* Peace"

That could be rough for anyone unused to it. To mitigate the rigors of feasting, I'd recommend a glass or two of wine.

;-)

[conservonator]

They do think that, it is in their writings.

Can you point me to these writings?

[dan on the right]

The Pope is infallable only when he issues statements ex cathedra, meaning from the seat of authority. It is not used often.

Below is a copy of a letter I sent to my church (I am Catholic) after a letter from Cardinal Egan was read during the Homily as well as some comments by the Priest. I sent this to my Pastor and the Associate Priest. Names withheld.

March 3, 2003


Dear Msgr. _______and Fr. ____:

I am a huge fan and supporter of the ___________ Church and all that you do for the Community. However, I need to convey my great disappointment regarding Sunday’s Homily. I apologize in advance if I am being too forward, but need to communicate my frustration.

My family and I attended ____ Mass. After a really inspiring homily, some additional comments were made as well as the letter from Cardinal Egan was read, regarding the situation in Iraq. Of course, all Christians are against War. War involves killing, which is an anathema to our beliefs. However, there are times where War is necessary to stop an even larger evil and to liberate an oppressed people. The attempt by the Catholic Church to undermine the United States’ effort to remove weapons of mass destruction form the hands of a madman is very troubling, and, in my view, inappropriate.

I can accept when the Pope tries to find a peaceful resolution. Of course, instead of trying to pressure Hussein to step down and go into exile, the Church goes after the US policies. However, when the Church’s support of the anti-war movement finds its way into our Homilies and into letters from our Cardinal, I cannot sit by idly as my Church attacks my Governments policies.

As we all know (none of this is disputed), Saddam is a mass murderer (he has killed over 1 million of his own people), who has no tolerance for our faith, who routinely tortures his enemies, who has no respect whatsoever for human life, who has invaded neighboring countries on two different occasions. He has made a mockery of the UN and of the US. Yet, somehow, the anti-war groups, some European countries who benefit economically from their ties with Iraq, and the Church feel that the US is a greater threat that needs to be stopped.

What is a good Catholic American to do? Accept the statements of their Cardinal and Priests and support the anti-war movement, even if they are contrary to their strongly held beliefs as an American, or interpret the statements by the Church on political issues as beyond the Church’s spiritual teachings, and merely of political commentary? I hope it is the latter.

Sincerely,

[GraniteStateConservative]

"The pope Saddam Hussein/Barbra Streisand/Janeane Garofalo/OBL, etc. said the day of fasting on Wednesday would remind people of the long years of suffering endured by Iraqi citizens as a result of the international embargo against the country."

Pretty sad when the Pope says things that could be said by total nutjobs.

[goodseedhomeschool]

In 1870, at the first vatican council, pope pius 9thdeclared in the doctrine of paple infallibility that the pope possessed full and completepower and authority over the whole church, that the pope can rule indepenentlyon any matter which comes under it's sphere of the church's jurisdiction, without the concurrence of other bishops or the rest of the church, and there is no higher authority on earth than the pope's

[FredZarguna]

They do think that, it is in their writings.

Can you point me to these writings?

Sure, look here:
Catholic Encyclopedia

Wherein, it says:

The Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent"

[goodseedhomeschool]

sorry about the spelling

[GraniteStateConservative]

You could easily say all peaceful routes haven't been exhausted-- making it unjust. The issue is that we all know that those routes would fail and we'd finally have world consensus on the subject when it's too hot to go to war.

[goodseedhomeschool]

I was about to say that too :)

[singsong]

Sounds like Stalin to me.

[goodseedhomeschool]

Don't get me wrong. I love all my brothers and sisters in Christ, I just do not agree with the pope. Of course he has his opinion just as I do, but he gets a lot more press. Anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, accepts what he did for us on the cross at Calvary and has asked him to come into their life to be their Lord and Savior, I agree with IN CHRIST. It's just the "other doctrines" I have trouble with. Yes, I am a southern Baptist, if you will.

[goodseedhomeschool]

I agree

[Gumdrop]

Having a big steak on Wednesday? A Practicing Catholic? Don't you know tomorrow is Ash Wednesay? It is a mandatory day of fast and abstinence for all healthy and faithful Catholics.

I'm not sure why this Pope (whom I admire greatly) is so fervently agaist this conflict. I believe it is a just cause. In the end, it is still a political decision. The Pope must speak for the church on faith and morals; OTOH, the POTUS made a vow to preserve and protect the Constitution of the United States of America. As such, one of his major focuses must be on defending the citizens of this country against attack. I support Pres. Bush. I also plan to fast and pray tomorrow that the good Lord will protects us all during the coming months, and give unto our good POTUS the courage, the wisdom, and the resolve to do what is right and just.

[FredZarguna]

You could easily say all peaceful routes haven't been exhausted-- making it unjust.

Of course, once can easily say anything. But that doesn't make it so. Someone actually has to make a determination based on evidence and reasoning that peaceful routes have been exhausted. And, with regards to the doctrine of "Just War" the pope is not that person.

The moral and spiritual burden falls on the political, not the ecclesiastical authority. The pope has no jurisdiction in the "Just War" question. Nor is he to be held answerable for its consequences.

[Luna]

The pope is not a world leader. He's a religious leader and should confine the scope of his stewardship to the Catholic church, not world politics. Actually, I wouldn't mind the pope butting in on the war with Iraq if the pope wouldn't mind Bush telling him what he should do to clean up the Catholic church.

No offense to any of you Catholics, I hope.

[conservonator]

In 1870, at the first vatican council, pope pius 9thdeclared in the doctrine of paple infallibility that the pope possessed full and completepower and authority over the whole church, that the pope can rule indepenentlyon any matter which comes under it's sphere of the church's jurisdiction, without the concurrence of other bishops or the rest of the church, and there is no higher authority on earth than the pope's

Not exactly...While the pope does enjoy the power to proclaim infallible dogma on matters of faith and morals, he is not alone in this prerogative. Ecumenical councils of bishops also have the authority to pronounce infallible dogma, again in matters of faith and morals. This does not mean that every time the Pope or a council of bishops issues a statement, edict or encyclical that an infallible pronouncement has been made.

In regard to this current situation with Iraq, the pope has made no infallible pronouncements.

I realize the for many non-Catholic the concept of Papal infallibility can be confusing. I would suggest that a visit to THIS site to help you better understand traditional Christianity.

[El Conservador]

It's nice to see that these so-called "Catholics" are revealing themsleves as closeted born-again Christian Protestants...

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't need you, anyway

[conservonator]

Sounds like Stalin to me.

Really? Stalin was the dictator of a materialistic, atheistic totalitarian state. Is this how you view the Catholic Church?