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Iowa's New Factory Farm Rules Criticized
The Associated Press ^ | FEBRUARY 14, 2003 | AMY LORENTZEN

Posted on 02/14/2003 9:59:06 AM PST by Willie Green

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To: Carry_Okie
First of all, I don't think that follows.

Typically, throughout history it has, and that's why we have laws in the first place - to attempt to create a level playing field for everyone. Never quite works as planned, but it's still better than the alternative. You are correct that large concerns become adept at manipulating laws, but if the laws were not there, many large organizations would just apply those efforts to running roughshod over smaller landowners. I think your approach should be read by governmental and NGO concerns, you have a lot of good ideas, but the best approach is to apply a smorgasbord of approaches to balance out the tendencies of a given group or organization to exploit singular points of control. That's exactly why the founders created multiple branches of government, and why land use planning should in turn reflect multiple, messy layers - to prevent a single interest group from acquiring too much power over the process.

21 posted on 02/14/2003 12:43:08 PM PST by dirtboy
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To: dirtboy
The agencies love their monopoly too much to willingly let your smorgasbord ever happen. Witness these pollution credits markets. They are TOTALLY manipulated, and usually to the advantage of the big players. Such gives market solutions a bad name.

My system isn't a wholesale replacement for regulatory government, yet. It's going to take decades to learn how to run this bus, but at least the system is structurally and legally capable of returning the nation to its Constitutional bases. It's implementation is by incremental acquisition where we can prove we that can do a better job, and it's legal advantages are founded upon on an extremely fundamental level. It is totally colinear with NEPA, indeed, we intend to use NEPA and other environmental laws to acquire our markets from the current claque of armed monopolists. Then there is our Constitutional advantage. As we grow, we'll drain those agencies of their best and brightest and start hiring those currently worthless graduates to do what they actually wanted to accomplish with their lives.
22 posted on 02/14/2003 12:56:23 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: dirtboy; Paleo Conservative
I want to address this comment in particular:

That's exactly why the founders created multiple branches of government, and why land use planning should in turn reflect multiple, messy layers - to prevent a single interest group from acquiring too much power over the process.

The legislative branch of our republic has Constitutionally limited power to effect direct claims upon the use of property. It is to these mechanics that the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution addressed uncompensated takings. For without a check on the exercise of democratic power to lay claims against private property, such claims proliferate until private property eventually ceases to exist.

Unfortunately, government has every power to enact laws regarding discharge of transformation products across property lines because the concept of property as ONLY consisting of a social contract for use of bounded processes is poorly understood. Once a civic agent has the power to control transformation products in commons, then that agent has full control of how property can be used.

Once an economic factor has been rendered into a democratized commons, claims against uses producing transformation products can then be effected through the courts. These claims can be brought by anyone and focus exclusively upon controlling negatively valued transformation products without consideration of the total integrated impact of the contested use. (Since when did anybody sue in order to pay for a positive externality?)

As concentrations of transformation products in process outputs approach zero, minute reductions in pollutants can greatly increase the cost of treatment. As the cost of compliance consumes a higher fraction of the sale price of the economic good, the return on the original use approaches zero. Once the return on assets goes negative, investment in improving technology to reduce production of negative externalities becomes negatively valued as well. Few would develop new control technology because few could pay for it. If there is no return on the use of the asset, that use of the property will be abandoned, as it has become a zero-priced good. Negative investment return destroys the market value of the use.

Both claimant and agent are thus motivated to focus upon those transformation products that are most difficult to control, because it is those properties that are most likely to convert the use of the asset to that which they prefer. The fight between landowners, regulators, and activists then degenerates into increasingly trivial arguments regarding specifications, measurements, and enforcement that have increasingly large financial consequences for the owner. Remedial measures thus structurally diverge from an objective assessment of the total impact upon environmental health because that was never the claimants' primary objective.

Rarely does either acquiring interest consider the possible unintended consequences of their actions, among other reasons because they have little experience in actual operations and no accountability for the consequences. The legal process is thus alienated from its purpose to establish justice, just as the regulatory process is directed away from ecological health. There is little civic accountability for maintaining a successful balance among competing interests, indeed, very likely the contrary is true. Problems are sources of civic claims by which to control the entire economy, a motivational structure antithetical to the very purpose of regulation.

As claims proliferate, the legislatures and courts are overwhelmed with cases that are technical and difficult to prove. They rely upon opinions from supposedly disinterested experts regarding the impacts of transformation products. Neither legislators or courts have the power to enforce a judgement; that power lies exclusively with the executive branch of government. The demand for expediency seduces legislatures and the courts to default upon their Constitutional responsibility, to the only civic agency with relevant expertise and police power. Control of use and, thus ownership of that use, is effectively transferred to the executive branch of government.

When taking land out of production profits the financial sponsors of a claim, it is cheaper to control the target use than to compensate the owner or buy the property. All it takes to manipulate a resource market by democratic means is to buy out the competition by manipulating majority perceptions about the risk of ecological harm associated with that target use. The few who can profit by taking competing resources out of production then have reason to sponsor the investment in political or legal action. They focus the first case against a weak target or obvious problem (which is why most such takings appear as local actions).

Established precedent then extends the applicability of cited legislation and lowers the cost successive claims. Property owners gradually lose their ability to finance the cost of compliance or legal resistance. Absent a profitable use, the market value of the target use approaches zero. After repeated exercise of external controls, purchase of the residual asset value concludes any remaining claim by an owner.

When a rival owner produces a competing or substitute good, the financial advantages of such tacit property acquisitions can be enormous. For example, if a developer funded public concerns about the negatively valued transformation products of farming to render the use of farmland non-economic and ripe for development, the land becomes less expensive to purchase.

This politically-sponsored dissolution of the Separation of Powers Principle, combines all three branches of government into one, that can derive power and funding by manufacturing claims on the use of property. The more externalities are regulated, the more power accrues to the agency to control the use of the producing asset to turn its use to corrupt purpose. When agency control is sufficient to alienate the interest of the agent from the democratic majority, the asset has then degenerated into a socialized commons.


23 posted on 02/14/2003 1:01:42 PM PST by Carry_Okie (The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
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To: Carry_Okie; Paleo Conservative; farmfriend
That power to control then becomes political power for sale. Needless to say, the consequences all too often refect that rather corrupt motivational architecture.

Amen and Hallelujah.

I used to think zoning was the cat's meow. "It keeps people's property values up". Actually, it only keeps certain people's property values up, the others can eat cake.

Why don't the snobby elitist types have a gas station built in their effen neighborhood for a change. Do they sh*t gold or something? I can't put a 1 x 2 neon in my business because some asshole who plays cards with my county commissioner doesn't like seeing while he's driving his BMW?

My parents have about 5 acres they've been improving right across the street from a raggy looking orange grove. By the time they're done with it it'll be worth several million and will market for about 10 times what they paid. Raggy orange grove and all.

Gee, all without the help of pandering or bribed fatso officials. Imagine that, we don't need them pushing all the buttons after all.

There is a time and place for not putting a strip joint next to a school or whatever, but for the most part zoning sucks the big one. I'd like to see the "it's what's best for everyone" lie debunked big time.

24 posted on 02/14/2003 1:25:18 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: dirtboy
Yes, factory farming is relatively new, but when have the technics of farming remained static? My husband worked on a pig farm 30 yrs ago, probably one of the first, I lived less than 20 yds from the buildings and I'll tell you, it wasn't pleasant so I do understand. What I don't understand is people not taking such things into account before moving to an unknown place.

I wouldn't move in next to a sewer plant but I would also not move next to land that was owned by a government entity for fear that it would be the site of the next sewer.

25 posted on 02/14/2003 3:42:11 PM PST by tiki
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To: tiki
I wouldn't move in next to a sewer plant but I would also not move next to land that was owned by a government entity for fear that it would be the site of the next sewer.

You're a wise gal. Caveat Emptor is our friend.

26 posted on 02/14/2003 3:54:40 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: farmfriend
Yes, this is a subject near and dear to my heart. In Ohio, I was one of about 24 people from various walks of life, (Farm bureau to EPA to Environmental Council people and Grange, of course) who spent 6 months developing recomendations to address the CAFO issue in Ohio. The first step in correcting the issue was to put the permitting process in the hands of the Dept. of Ag. instead of EPA. EPA never really got a good handle on permitting CAFOs in Ohio. This was a very controversial issue in Ohio as the environmental people were siding with the EPA folks. So far, the Dept. of Ag. has done a very commendable job of permitting and monitoring these CAFOs.

Interestingly enough, we had a county in Ohio, whose Dept. of Health tried to "overrule" state law and form their own rules for allowing CAFOs into their county. The Enviromentalist in this county wrote "draft" rules for which a CAFO could locate in that county. It took them a while to figure out that their "draft" rules could not supercede state law. Case closed - issue dropped.
27 posted on 02/17/2003 5:12:07 PM PST by Harleys Mom (Daddy always said: "Rush is Right")
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To: farmfriend
I might also add too, that we had a group of neighbors of a CAFO that decided to sue the CAFO (which by the way was an enviromentally sound facility - good manure management plan, no odor issues, etc). The neighbors lost the suit, so the CAFO sued for lost wages, for holding up the process for enlarging the farm and guess what? The nieghbors lost the suit and were found negligant. They were ordered by the judge to pay the farmer his lost wages. The reason this happened is because the farmer had excellant records, had the appropriate permits, and was known in the Ohio farming world as a good steward of the land.

I might also mention that in our rules committee we developed plans for manure management, record keeping, and even requiring a "rodent control Plan", just to name a few. The Ohio Livestock Coalition, of which Ohio State Grange is a member, has a legal fund which will assist farmers who are being sued, as long as they can prove that they have been good stewards of the land. (FYI)
28 posted on 02/17/2003 5:25:12 PM PST by Harleys Mom (Daddy always said: "Rush is Right")
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To: Harleys Mom; Carry_Okie
I need you to read Carry_Okie's book. I still see it as the future for both this country and the Grange. The Grange could once again be on the cutting edge, leading instead of following.

Natural Process

A Guest Editorial by Mark Vande Pol

I need to get James Tetreault to read it as well. If I had the money, I would buy one for every Legislative Director we have.

29 posted on 02/17/2003 5:25:34 PM PST by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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