I am Genuinely Curious Why Conservatives Don't Love Genocidal Dictators Like We Libs Do

2-7-2003

[Physicist]

Is dissent somehow un-American to you? What about that pesky First Amendment? Was it really put in place to protect not popular, but unpopular speech?

I was roughed up by the Teamsters Union while protesting against Clinton in Philadelphia on Oct. 2, 1998. Top that.

[Preech1]

Hmmm...since when do we have time travel? This guy signed up tomorrow...

[Redcloak]

Perhaps Mommy told him it was time to brush his teeth and go to bed.

[UnBlinkingEye]

Some here are appeasers of the first order.

So you think the doctrine of preemptive attack is good?

[Billthedrill]

This isn't DU. The topic you attempt to raise in a rather, if you'll pardon the observation, rude and tendentious manner, is a topic that has received considerable attentions hereabouts. Perhaps you should lurk here more often. We have a number of unapologetic liberals who are quite welcome.

Try THIS THREAD for starters. I won't attempt to address all of your questions above, but I will state the basics - first, that this is the end consequence of Saddam's decision to brutally invade a neighbor, and never mind the rationalizations, it's action that counts and his was a blitzkrieg. The military activity that ensued had UN sanction and accomplished its goal of driving the aggressor back. Its cessation came with an agreement that Saddam would not do several things that he has done: pursue forbidden weapons, violate the no-fly zones, interfere with UN inspectors, etc, etc. This is not really deniable in the face of the evidence presented.

Why invade Iraq? Because there isn't a peaceful alternative left us. He won't stop, and he will use what he makes - he already has, on Iranians and Kurds. He does support Islamic terror. He is dangerous, violent, murderous, and a thoroughgoing, monstrous tyrant. Deny that if you like, but try to do it honestly and not simply reflexively.

Many Dems are onboard despite the political advantage they feel they will give up, because they believe the above and value their country's and the world's wellbeing above ephemeral political advantage. Good for them. Shame on those who do not.

It isn't a matter of being "pro-war," as that little bit of misrepresentation would have it. It's a matter of pay me now or pay me more later. Peace isn't really an option here, it's an abstraction and a pipe dream.

And welcome to FR. I do hope you stick around.

[McGavin999]

OK, I'll take a stab at it.

1. We need to make war on Iraq because Iraq seriously endangers all our lives. Only those who have no understanding of history can possibly look at what is happening and refuse to see it.

2. You should believe Powell because the evidence he presented is the LEAST of what we have on Saddam. It's the evidence we can make public without endangering the lives of those who got it for us, and without exposing the methods we have of obtaining information.

3. What makes you think we think American lives are more important than Iraqui lives? If we thought that way, this whole war thing would be easy. One bomber, one bomb and it would be over.

4. There will be terrorism either way. When facing the inevitable it's best to face it head on while fighting for our lives, rather than lying down and being slaughtered like sheep. Some things are worth figting for. If there is nothing you hold dear enough to fight for, I feel sorry for you.

5. No, we have no problem with dissent, we do have a problem with people who haven't thought things through. We are in danger, it's not a time to be prancing in the streets with a bunch of Iraqui paid puppets thinking you're making a statement.

I've tried to answer your questions and would like to ask one of my own.

Why don't liberals think the Iraqui people deserve to be free? Why do liberals think it's perfectly acceptable for Saddam to kill, maim, and torture people who are begging to be liberated? Do you think you are the only ones who deserve the freedom of dissent? Do you realize why you have the freedom to dissent?

[ChuckHam]

Hmmm...since when do we have time travel? This guy signed up tomorrow...

Maybe it's time to send him back to the future.

[mhking]

Quite frankly, I don't give a flying fornication what you or anyone else at DU thinks of us and what we say.

You are dismissed. You may go now.

[Taxbilly]

-Why is it that we need to make war on Iraq? This question is asked in light of the fact that most serious people outside of the Bush administration don’t see Iraq as any sort of threat to anyone in the US. Rather, they see them as contained, neutered.

You're saying that the majority of Americans are not serious? In light of the fact that most child molesters participate in peace rallies I would say that's a good thing.

[Redcloak]

It might not be "sporting", but who says that the other guy deserves a free punch?

[ysoitanly]

Since when does 'God Bless America' = 'Screw the Rest of the World?' Why do the 'tolerant' liberals seem INCAPABLE of multitasking of thoughts?

[MonroeDNA]

No Zot on this one, please?

Freepers, ignore the insults; we've hurled worse at each other.

We're a lot better than DU; let's answer the questions. Might get a convert.

[rwfromkansas]

I was actually considering replying decently to you.

Then, I read your last paragraph.

Look buddy, there is no doubt in my mind you would not have believed a DEMOCRAT would fake evidence, but if it is a Republican, the evidence is faked. We don't believe Kennedy faked his evidence of the Cuban Missile Crisis, but yet you have chosen to do that with ours for no reason.

If there is evidence that it is faked, it should be shared. But, there is no evidence of such and therefore, you have no ground to stand on.

You are flat wrong in this entire mess....Saddam is NOT contained, but is actively working with other organizations to achieve his end. He must be stopped.

[Petronski]

Well, evidently the author of this post cannot think and/or type fast. LOL

Personally, I don't think the poster will reply until he can steal another tip at the cybercafe and buy five more minutes online.

[xJones]

Agreed. This is a prize specimen, like Helen Thomas.

We don't get that many play toys anymore, but this isn't a very good one. He doen't talk back. They just don't make 'em like they used to.....

[Physicist]

But what about all that liberal drivel you hear about how this will spawn more terrorism?

Do you really think the terrorists have been holding back? How? And why have they?

A lesson from my childhood: you get beaten the worst when you don't hit back. Everyone learns you're a pushover, and so they push.

[Marines981]

GUESS THE DOOR HIT UR A** TOO HARD EH?

[Poohbah]

SKYKING SKYKING DO NOT ANSWER

SKYKING SKYKING DO NOT ANSWER

EMERGENCY ACTION MESSAGE FOLLOWS

CODE WORD: JERICHO
DESIGNATOR: COTTONMOUTH
DAY WORD: TRINITY

ZOT ZOT ZOT

EMERGENCY ACTION MESSAGE ENDS

[ez]

This is why I support removing Saddam Hussein from power...WMDs are just icing on the cake to me...

SADDAM HUSSEIN’S REPRESSION OF THE IRAQI PEOPLE

UNSCR 688 (April 5, 1991) “condemns” Saddam Hussein’s repression of the Iraqi civilian population -- “the
consequences of which threaten international peace and security.” UNSCR 688 also requires Saddam
Hussein to end his repression of the Iraqi people and to allow immediate access to international
humanitarian organizations to help those in need of assistance.

Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated
these provisions and has: expanded his violence against women and children; continued his horrific torture
and execution of innocent Iraqis; continued to violate the basic human rights of the Iraqi people and has
continued to control all sources of information (including killing more than 500 journalists and other opinion
leaders in the past decade).

Saddam Hussein has also harassed humanitarian aid workers; expanded his
crimes against Muslims; he has withheld food from families that fail to offer their children to his regime; and
he has continued to subject Iraqis to unfair imprisonment.10

REFUSAL TO ADMIT HUMAN RIGHTS MONITORS

§ The UN Commission on Human Rights and the UN General Assembly issued a report that noted "with
dismay" the lack of improvement in the situation of human rights in Iraq. The report strongly criticized
the "systematic, widespread, and extremely grave violations of human rights" and of international
humanitarian law by the Iraqi Government, which it stated resulted in "all-pervasive repression and
oppression sustained by broad-based discrimination and widespread terror." The report called on the
Iraqi Government to fulfill its obligations under international human rights treaties.
§ Saddam Hussein has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors and the establishment of
independent human rights organizations.

From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special
Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.11
§ In September 2001 the Government expelled six UN humanitarian relief workers without providing any
explanation.12

VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

§ Human rights organizations and opposition groups continued to receive reports of women who suffered
from severe psychological trauma after being raped by Iraqi personnel while in custody.13
§ Former Mukhabarat member Khalid Al-Janabi reported that a Mukhabarat unit, the Technical
Operations Directorate, used rape and sexual assault in a systematic and institutionalized manner for
political purposes. The unit reportedly also videotaped the rape of female relatives of suspected
oppositionists and used the videotapes for blackmail purposes and to ensure their future cooperation.§ In June 2000, a former Iraqi general reportedly received a videotape of security forces raping a female
family member. He subsequently received a telephone call from an intelligence agent who stated that
another female relative was being held and warned him to stop speaking out against the Iraqi
Government.15

§ Iraqi security forces allegedly raped women who were captured during the Anfal Campaign and during
the occupation of Kuwait. 16

§ Amnesty International reported that, in October 2000, the Iraqi Government executed dozens of women
accused of prostitution.17

§ In May, the Iraqi Government reportedly tortured to death the mother of three Iraqi defectors for her
children’s opposition activities.18

§ Iraqi security agents reportedly decapitated numerous women and men in front of their family
members. According to Amnesty International, the victims’ heads were displayed in front of their
homes for several days.

19
TORTURE
§ Iraqi security services routinely and systematically torture detainees. According to former prisoners,
torture techniques included branding, electric shocks administered to the genitals and other areas,
beating, pulling out of fingernails, burning with hot irons and blowtorches, suspension from rotating
ceiling fans, dripping acid on the skin, rape, breaking of limbs, denial of food and water, extended
solitary confinement in dark and extremely small compartments, and threats to rape or otherwise harm
family members and relatives. Evidence of such torture often was apparent when security forces
returned the mutilated bodies of torture victims to their families.20

§ According to a report received by the UN Special Rapporteur in 1998, hundreds of Kurds and other
detainees have been held without charge for close to two decades in extremely harsh conditions, and
many of them have been used as subjects in Iraq’s illegal experimental chemical and biological
weapons programs.21


§ In 2000, the authorities reportedly introduced tongue amputation as a punishment for persons who
criticize Saddam Hussein or his family, and on July 17, government authorities reportedly amputated
the tongue of a person who allegedly criticized Saddam Hussein. Authorities reportedly performed the
amputation in front of a large crowd. Similar tongue amputations also reportedly occurred.22

[Remedy]

I would like to grab you by the neck and ram your head into Why & How liberals have trashed America