AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD: Alarm at 'EU Pentagon' plan

The Daily Telegraph ^ | December 17, 2002 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

[MadIvan]

The European Union is drawing up plans for a "Euro-Pentagon" in Brussels commanded by a defence chief able to launch military operations anywhere in the world.

The proposals call for an EU defence secretary with responsibility for running operations.

Yes the two Boy Scouts with a slingshot will go to Bosnia, then to Iraq, and then to Lebanon, all before tea time! - Ivan

His staff would be able to draw on an autonomous EU command and control nexus and an intelligence agency with satellite capability.

They are to be published today by the defence working group of the Convention on the Future of Europe. They will form the basis of the military section in the EU's draft constitution next June.

The group was chaired by the French commissioner Michel Barnier, who has been accused of playing down contributions from those opposed to a European army.

British objections appear to have been ignored in the final draft, though footnotes allude to intense disagreements among the group's members.

The document says the world has changed so dramatically since September 11, 2001, that national defence is "no longer sufficient".

The plans go far beyond the EU's 60,000-man rapid reaction force, which is to take on its first peacekeeping mission in the Balkans early next year.

The defence secretary - a beefed-up version of the current post of high representative held by Javier Solana of Spain - would report to EU defence ministers but would have powers to take "necessary decisions" in an emergency.

The force would have a broad mandate to "dispel hostility", a term that seems to open the door to much wider warfare than the existing menu of humanitarian tasks.

This military structure would be backed by a European Arms and Strategic Research Agency that could harness the EU's industrial might for future military needs. An EU military academy was also floated as a possibility.

The proposals are causing deep concern to the EU's four non-Nato neutral states - Austria, Sweden, Finland, and Ireland - and were greeted with alarm yesterday by the Tories.

Geoffrey Van Orden, MEP, the Tory defence spokesman in Brussels, said: "If this isn't an EU army then I don't know what it is. Mr Blair should call a halt to this before it is too late."

[MadIvan]

The only EU state with a substantial and modern military is Britain. I can't see us fighting and dying for some Belgian general.

Louis Michel, the Belgian Foreign Minister, said that such a plan should be launched even if it had no grounding in reality. Apparently that's the case.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

Bump!

[Southack]

There are several countries in Europe which I wouldn't mind watching spend themselves into oblivion.

Funding an additional, new EU defense force on top of their NATO contributions, UN contributions, and their own national defense contributions (on top of their already-bloated social spending) seems like the ideal way to achieve my goal, too...

[dighton]

They're off their chumps.

[Happygal]

In the 'revamp' referendum for Ireland the Ministers were promising that NO Irish people be drafted into an EU 'Rapid Defense' strategy. Has this suddenly changed? (Surprise! Surprise!)

[lawdude]

"...military operations anywhere in the world."

Their idea of military ops is to show up on the border and think nasty thoughts about the "enemy"! Then ... surrender.

[OldCorps]

We should starve the EU of money, intelligence and most importantly forces in NATO (which no longer has a mission-so why should it exist?). Let them throw money at their boondogle. It becomes increasingly clear with the passage of time that we have less and less in commoon with the EU. They want to go the route of socialism. We are not so inclined.

Its time we stopped bankrolling them.

[MadIvan]

In the 'revamp' referendum for Ireland the Ministers were promising that NO Irish people be drafted into an EU 'Rapid Defense' strategy. Has this suddenly changed? (Surprise! Surprise!)

Apparently so, darling. Isn't it wonderful, our lads get to go fight and die, led by French and Luxembourgish generals?

Love, Ivan

[The Iguana]

Louis Michel, the Belgian Foreign Minister, said that such a plan should be launched even if it had no grounding in reality.

In other words, it's a perfect match for EU economic policies, Ivan.

[shaggy eel]

,,, no problem here at all. The orders will be given in German and the awaited action will rest on the French. Britain will finance it all and auditing will be the responsibility of the Italians. Don't pass go, don't collect anything.

[Poohbah]

They're off their chumps.

Look, if you intend by that utilization of an obscure colloquiallism to imply that their sanity is not up to scratch, or indeed to deny the semi-existence of their little chum Eric the Half-Bee, I shall have to ask you to listen to this!

Take it away, Eric the orchestra leader!.......

[MadIvan]

Half a bee is ipso facto half not a bee...

Regards, Ivan

[Happygal]

Only thing Luxembourg was ever good for was that old pirate radio station! *L*

[MadIvan]

Only thing Luxembourg was ever good for was that old pirate radio station! *L*

And banking secrecy laws, darling. ;)

Love, Ivan

[Happygal]

And banking secrecy laws, darling. ;)

I don't have enough money (yet *L*) to know of such things. *L* I did, however, tune into Radio Luxembourg...me being the teenage rebel that I was *L* (Long time ago now..me being 30 and all *L*)

[MadIvan]

I don't have enough money (yet *L*) to know of such things. *L* I did, however, tune into Radio Luxembourg...me being the teenage rebel that I was *L* (Long time ago now..me being 30 and all *L*)

Ah, sweet darling, you're the young one - I'm the old man. ;)

Love, Ivan

[Dog Gone]

The force would have a broad mandate to "dispel hostility", a term that seems to open the door to much wider warfare than the existing menu of humanitarian tasks.

I don't know about that. In euroweenie talk, "dispelling hostility" might mean handing out bumper stickers reading "War is mean!".

[Happygal]

*LOL*...OK 'DAD' I promise to eat my greens..and my asparagus! *L*

[MadIvan]

I don't know about that. In euroweenie talk, "dispelling hostility" might mean handing out bumper stickers reading "War is mean!".

Or sending therapists from their socialist health care systems to ask the Palestinians to talk about their feelings.

Perhaps I'm a base and crude Anglo-Saxon, but first instinct is to just shoot the bastards.

Regards, Ivan

[MadIvan]

*LOL*...OK 'DAD' I promise to eat my greens..and my asparagus! *L*

Clean your room while you're at it. ;)

Love, Ivan

[Happygal]

Clean your room while you're at it. ;)

*LOL* Already done! Wanna inspect? ;-P

[MadIvan]

*LOL* Already done! Wanna inspect? ;-P

I think I should...you never know about the dangers of dustbunnies. ;)

Love, Ivan

[Jhoffa_]

The force would have a broad mandate to "dispel hostility", a term that seems to open the door to much wider warfare than the existing menu of humanitarian tasks.

Good, let the EUweenies be the worlds police men..

Then they can be universally despised while we snipe from the sidelines.

[Cicero]

Europe today is something like Stalinism without Stalin. They have state socialism and lack of accountability to the voters, but they lack a ruthless leader. Let's hope they don't find one.

[Texican]

Ivan:
I did not know that you were as old as I am, a mere 78 1/2 years. You sound much younger.

Have a nice day and the very best to you and yours.

Semper Fi
Tommie

[MadIvan]

I did not know that you were as old as I am, a mere 78 1/2 years. You sound much younger.

I am actually the same age as the lovely Happygal, but just have days when I feel like Methuselah could beat me in the 100 metre sprint.

Have a nice day and the very best to you and yours.

My thanks. Same to you and yours.

Regards, Ivan

[Texican]

Ivan:
Now my friend you are not only 21 I am sure. I know for a fact (well almost) that HappyGirl is only 21. She sounds so beautiful and her looks are a thing of beauty. I can just close my eyes and see that beautiful colene(sp) right now. Her ruddy cheeks, bright red hair and those wonderful dancing feet.

Semper Fi
Tommie

[MadIvan]

She sounds so beautiful and her looks are a thing of beauty.

I tell her that all the time. Getting her to believe me is another matter. ;)

I can just close my eyes and see that beautiful colene(sp) right now. Her ruddy cheeks, bright red hair and those wonderful dancing feet.

And the Celtic Gleam of Murder, yes. ;)

Regards, Ivan

[etcetera]

The EU is gonna do what it's always done. They'll fund a military bureaucracy and build a some offices, but each member nation will cut back on military spending. Thus they'll be unable to acutally fill the ranks, buy planes, launch satellites, develop tanks and aircraft. The "Euro-Pentagon" will be as the Texans say, "All hat and no cattle".

[MadIvan]

The "Euro-Pentagon" will be as the Texans say, "All hat and no cattle".

All dung and no cattle in this case.

Regards, Ivan

[6ppc]

they lack a ruthless leader. Let's hope they don't find one.

That will come when their nanny state collapses. Probably gonna have to fight them again. I'm betting it'll happen before 2014...gonna wind up being three times in less than a century. We're gettin' a bit tired of this crap, so next time maybe we'll just pave it over;^)

[gaspar]

Missing in these evaluations is the growing belief in Berlin and Paris that Europe is caught in the jaws of a giant nutcracker -- America to the West and Russia to the East. And this time the two former antagonists are moving toward a close friendship.
Secondly, smaller European nations are aware that a EC army would make NATO, as presently constructed, a superfluous organization. As both students and victims of totalitarianism they could not be expected to follow blindly the German-French entente. Thus, should this military reorganization go forward it could mean the dissolution of the EC.
These are interesting times in Europe, but it is also important to note that given the present economic doldrums in both France and Germany many proposals are floated for domestic consumption.

[quebecois]

"europe today is something like stalinism without the stalin"

Close. What the EU is is a Menshevik version of the Soviet Union. The Bolsheviks had their shot in eastern europe, and it was a flop. Now the other brank of marxism will give it a go.

[Erasmus]

Perhaps I'm a base and crude Anglo-Saxon, but first instinct is to just shoot the bastards.

...and let Freud sort it out.

[amongolian]

French generals, Dutch troops - the heroes of Srbrenica, and Italian tanks. Now there is a frightening frappe de force. At least the French generals come equiped with white scarves that double nicely as flags of surrender. The Swedes will probably stay out of it. As my Norwegian relatives explain when asked what the difference is between Swedes and Norwegians - "There ain't no yellow in our flag!"

[Tailgunner Joe]

bttt