If there's a shortage of doctors, why not allow more Americans to become one? (My title)

The Washington Times ^ | Nov. 18th, 2002 | Wash Times Editorial

[Mamzelle]

re:There are many, many, routine health-care tasks that do not require the full blown expertise of highly trained specialists. )))

Yes. They're called Physician Assistants, and are invaluable is seeing and treating patients and controlling costs.

What do you suggest, that we start calling PAs MDs, or should we rename MD into PA?

[RLK]

And the status quo here in the USA somehow is?

When something isn't working you change what needs to be changed, not have a temper tantrum and throw out everything randomly like a fool.

[RJCogburn]

Your post is disingenuous, inaccurate, and displays an amazing ignorance of the facts and issues. While one can discuss and argue the merits of the subject, your comments and post are so over the edge as to make any reasonable discussion unlikely.

[Mamzelle]

A resident working 80 hours sounds pretty awful...but they are young (or used to be!) and must pack a lot of learning into a short amount of time. Think of them like soldiers...

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>I wonder why states require so much education and training - for the fun of it?<<<


A little over a century ago, one could become a lawyer by being an apprentice without even going to law school. Then that changed. Then in the early 1950's, they added yet another year to law school (which is a post-graduate experience in VERY, VERY few countries worldwide). Protectionism had nothing to do with it? One can extrapolate and apply it to the medical profession union too, right?

[putupon]

I think a doctor needs roughly 12 years of post-high-school-training at an enormous cost

$240,000 for Med School alone @ out of state costs including housing, $40,000 in state not including housing. 40% avg. out of state students in VA med schools, a large number of the out of state students are out of the United States students from Middle Eastern Islamists countries.

After graduation figure working 100+ hours a week through residency @ $35, 000 a year while interest accrues on some of the school loans (some don't accrue % until after residency is done.

I don't have alot of patience with people who whine about the price of a physician. You want to lower med costs? Quit suing doctors and pharmacutical companies blind.

You want to get some of the good Euro doctor-lite care, go ahead. If it requires hospitilization, be sure and take your own nurse, one who doesn't mind chasing the flies away in addition to nursing duties if you would like any nursing care, sheets changed, bedpans emptied etc..

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>I surmise a frustrated applicant to American medical schools...<<<

No med. school has ever rejected me. Sorry to blow that supposition out of the water. Perhaps I'm simply a patriot?

[keats5]

I'm a nurse, although not actively practicing since children have come along. I deeply respect most of the physicians I've worked with in the past. They work harder than many know, and many would not go into medicine again had they understood what they were getting into. They love the patients, but the insurers simply require too much paperwork. Their decisions are often scrutinized and reversed by insurers not willing to pay for treatment.

Dont' ask the nurses to do the doctors' jobs. They are not the same. Doctors cure. Nurses offer care for recuperation. Besides, nurses already have a frighteneing shortage of their own. I get job enticements mailed to my home almost daily. Frankly, even if I would go back to work, I'd be afraid to enter such a needy field right now. I don't need the manditory overtime- been there, done that.

[Cate]

I think your frustration is very misplaced. The overworked physicians are held responsible for the prescriptions they write. Even if the physician recommends an over the counter medication, he can still be held accountable for any problems you have. Doctors are in no-win situations everyday due to stupid laws that have nothing to do with medicine that our former administration allowed to be passed. There has to be limits on what a physician can be held accountable for. Also, very few of the doctors are able to come out of med school without being up to their ears in debt. I have worked with a lot of physicians fresh out of school, and its sad that as their office manager, I actually had more spending money than they did. If our government wanted to do anything to improve the physician shortage, there would be more grants to aid in their education. If I were you, I'd send flowers to your doctor with a thank you note for being there when you needed him.

[cajungirl]

You know, you are so misinformed, so provocative, so rude and so enraged at docs that you lose any reasonable approach to an argument you may have. If you want an undergraduate doc from Timbuctoo to care for you , fine, have at it. But the Flexner report way back a hundred years ago, documented very well the problems of post graduate training of physicians. We have the very finest system and doctors in the world in spite of tort lawyers, socialists and angry crackpots like you. Anything can be destroyed and American medicine has been the object for years and years. By the time people wake up and realize it, they will long for it will all their hearts.

[philosofy123]

Hang the unionized lawyer thugs!

And the unionzed medical doctor thugs!

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>>(The Union Conspirators, for some reason unavailable to Endthe, provide the testing facilities to qualify foreign docs. Is this protectionism?) <<<<


Sorry to burst your bubble here too:



http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20020904-84242192.htm

Test drives away foreign medical students

CHICAGO (AP) - The number of foreign medical school graduates seeking
training in the United States has plummeted since the start of an expensive
new test that requires them to demonstrate their English skills, a study
found.
The number of foreign graduates taking the exam, required of applicants
for residencies and fellowships, dropped by more than half between 1997 and
2001, from 36,231 to 16,828, researchers found.
The decline coincided with a requirement instituted in 1998 that they
pass a clinical skills assessment, during which they must communicate with
fake "patients" in English and are scored on the staged encounters.
The study's authors suggest that foreign students may be dissuaded by
the prospect of having their English evaluated. The authors also cited the
$1,200 cost of the test and the expense of traveling to Philadelphia, the
sole examination site.
Dr. Alex Yadao, president of the American College of International
Physicians, said the exam and other required tests, as well as the travel
expenses, can amount to several thousand dollars.
"Foreign doctors cannot afford that," he said.
The study, conducted by the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical
Graduates, appears in today's Journal of the American Medical Association.
The study involved foreigners who applied for 2001 programs that began
before the September 11 terrorist attacks. Newer figures suggest that
foreign applications have surged since September 11, said the lead author,
Dr. Gerald Whelan.
The longer-term downward trend "could have a significant impact on the
overall graduate medical education population and the resulting U.S. medical
work force," the researchers said, because foreign medical graduates
consistently represent about one-fourth of both groups.
A similar clinical skills test proposed for U.S. medical students has
prompted objections from the AMA and other groups concerned about the exam's
cost and effectiveness.

---

[G Larry]

How about some TORT REFORM!!!!

Until then medical costs will continue to skyrocket and the Doctor shortages will only get worse!

[putupon]

A resident working 80 hours sounds pretty awful...but they are young

80 hours would seem like part time to my over 45 year old wife who is in residency. She left home yesterday @ 5:00 am for an "on call" day-night-day and if she gets home tonight before 8:00 am, it will be considered a light day.

[realpatriot71]

Do you have any idea exactly what it is physicians do and what knowledge they need to be able to do this?

I don't think you have a clue.

[End The Hypocrisy]

>>>We could always change the qualifications required to license physicians....<<<


An interesting idea, indeed, Mamzelle ;-)

[realpatriot71]

One can extrapolate and apply it to the medical profession union too, right?

There isn't a medical union

[G Larry]

I'm so glad you had time to present these details.
I posted before I reached your input.

[cynicom]

Jesse...

We have trod this ground before...Your position was that no person has a right to medical care....

My position is that if that is a fact, then the field needs to be opened to others.

It is also a fact that med schools have not increased the number of students since 1992, even though we have nearly 15 million more people.

We hear the daily wails about under paid, over worked, over regulated, and over sued. All of that is most likely true. However, I read of no calls by physicians for "increasing" the supply of doctors, not a peep.

CA is hiring Mexican doctors to serve under contract, for three year terms, in CA. Signs of the times....

[realpatriot71]

There are many, many, routine health-care tasks that do not require the full blown expertise of highly trained specialists.

Believe me, most physicians are more than happy to let someone else handle that crap