THOMAS JEFFERSON ON CHRISTIANITY & RELIGION

nonbeliefs.com ^ | Jim Walker

[Sam Cree]

Jefferson continues to be a controversial character, years after his death.

I'm not sure the quotes back up the body of the essay, though I believe the general thrust to be correct.

[stainlessbanner]

I have to agree with Sam Cree, I don't think the quotes prove the author's case.

[hoosierskypilot]

And this has what to do with the price of rice in China?

Who cares?

Fact: of the 55 men who drafted the constitution, 52 considered themselves to be evangelical Christians.

Fact: when TJ was appointed president of the Washington, DC school system, he installed a copy of Isaac Watt's hymnal and the Bible as the two primary reading texts.

Fact: When our founding fathers decided to organize our government, they did it based upon Biblical principles.

At the time, Russia had a czar and Britain had a king.
Because of the excesses of absolute monarchs, our founding fathers knew no single individual was competent to rule a country.

Therefore, they operated upon two premises: "There is none righteous, no not one" (Romans 3:10) and "For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

That is why we have three opposing branches of government: each is supposed to keep the other two in line.

It is absolutely irrelevant what any individual believed or did not believe. It matters not that TJ may, or may not, have owned slaves. It matters not that Grant was an alcoholic. It matters not that Kennedy was a whoremonger and drug abuser. The nation is more than an individual.

America's greatness has always been because she is a Christian nation. And without her Christian moorings, she will not survive the coming storm.

[jern]

bump for later

[be131]

Fact: When our founding fathers decided to organize our government, they did it based upon Biblical principles.... Therefore, they operated upon two premises: "There is none righteous, no not one" (Romans 3:10) and "For all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23).

Do you have any evidence that the Founding Fathers were following those two particular Biblical texts, and not just applying common sense?

[Enemy Of The State]

quite the character he was...

Many people believe that our founding fathers were all fundamentalist Christians and actually, this is a popular misconception.  David McCallough's book "The Founding Father's" discusses the religious beliefs of the founding fathers in detail.  The Continental Congress was composed of several atheists and many agnostics.In fact Thomas Jefferson was obviously among the agnostics.   The founding fathers did not  hold the general populace in high regard.  They felt that if the governmental writings did not evoke "God" the common folk would see no reason to pay them any mind, and there would be rioting in the streets.  Jefferson's writings reveal that he believed the new republic to be very tenuous and felt that cloaking the documents in a mandate from the divine would make sure that the general population was more easily lead.

It is the religous organizations in this country have done a good job of convincing us that our forefathers were all fundamentalist Christians.  The facts simply don't support this contention

[Sam Cree]

I don't necessarily disagree with most of what you say (though I might like some elaboration on the evangelical Christianity of the constitutional convention), but I think that the framers were more consciously basing our Constitution on the English tradition of individual freedom that can be traced back to the Anglo Saxons. Though these people certainly operated within a framework of Christianity. However, I am not very convinced that the bible makes a strong case for the individual freedom that is the unique heritage of the United States.

[Enemy Of The State]

see comment #7

[jlogajan]

America's greatness has always been because she is a Christian nation.

America's greatness is because it is a SECULAR nation that does not interfere in the private practice of religions and has drawn a LINE between religion and state. America's greatness is because it is primarily an INDIVIDUALIST nation rather than a socialistic nation (though sadly that is less true every day due to assaults on individualism by lefist socialists and cultural conservatives.)

[RLK]

Thank you. And thank Thomas Jefferson.

[Sam Cree]

"if the governmental writings did not evoke "God" "

I read somewhere (not McCullough, which I haven't read) that though he himself was not too religious, Jefferson thought that folks required the "fear of God" as motivation to be virtuous.

[jwalsh07]

"The constitutional freedom of religion [is] the most inalienable and sacred of all human rights." --Thomas Jefferson: Virginia Board of Visitors Minutes, 1819. ME 19:416

[jwalsh07]

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind." --Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801. ME 10:237

[SolaScriptura]

Name the atheists...name the agnostics..and prove it.

[dark_lord]

Fact: of the 55 men who drafted the constitution, 52 considered themselves to be evangelical Christians.

Fact: Founding Fathers that were Masons & Signers of the Declaration of Independence: Benjamin Franklin, Robert Treat Paine, John Handcock, Richard Stockton, Joseph Hewes, George Walton, William Hooper, William Whipple.
Fact: Founding Fathers that were Masons & Signers of the U.S. Constitution: Gunning Bradford, Jr., John Blair, Benjamin Franklin, David Brearley, Nicholas Gilman, Jacob Broom, Rufus King, Daniel Carroll, James McHenery, Jonathan Dayton, William Paterson, John Dickinson, George Washington.

Number of masons who were evangelical Christians: zero. Here is a link from a site that completely disagrees with the thesis of hoosierskypilot. (Disclaimer - I am neither a mason nor associated with this site.)
Masons and Christians"

[jwalsh07]

"The rights [to religious freedom] are of the natural rights of mankind, and... if any act shall be... passed to repeal [an act granting those rights] or to narrow its operation, such act will be an infringement of natural right." --Thomas Jefferson: Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779. (*) ME 2:303, Papers 2:546

Like for instance praying in the public square, you know, schools.

[Willie Green]

"The Christian religion, when divested of the rags in which they [the clergy] have enveloped it, and brought to the original purity and simplicity of it's benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty, science, and the freest expansion of the human mind."
.
--Thomas Jefferson to Moses Robinson, 1801. ME 10:237

[Romulus]

America's greatness is because ...

Thus neatly skirting the fundamental question of whether America's proper destiny is greatness or goodness.

[Sam Cree]

Well, I may agree with that statement, considering the other main religion, Islam.

But nevertheless, individual freedom and personal liberty have hardly been a noticable thrust of Christianity, even though most Americans are and have been Christians.