ABORTION: Granholm blasted for abortion views - Catholic protesters say church must speak out

Detroit Free Press ^ | 9-2-2002 | KATHLEEN GRAY

[kcvl]

"The public face of the Roman Catholic opposition to the church's antifeminist agenda... Nothing if not controversial."
-- Ms. Magazine

[Willie Green]

"The church has never said anything regarding Granholm, and they should condemn her position," added Robert Klucik, 35, of Ann Arbor.

AMEN!

This article fails to note that former Pennsylvania GOP-RINO Governor Tom Ridge (now Dubya's Homeland Security czar) was prohibited by the Church from spewing his "pro-choice" poison on Church property. Not strong enough, IMHO, but stronger than the acquiescent silence bestowed upon Granholm.

[kcvl]

"Most people agree with me. As I travel in the United States and everywhere, the average Catholic who knows what I'm doing says, Oh, I'm so glad you're out there doing this. But when it comes to both right wing Catholics and also the hierarchy, they are extremely angry at anyone who speaks out against official teaching. And especially if you're successful at it, and particularly if you know what you're saying. So I do get a lot of flak from those people Although in the end, one of the beauties of the church is that they themselves believe in their own rules, and they know that I have a right to say what I'm saying. And so while they may criticize me for it, no church official has ever suggested that I should be excommunicated or that I am not a Catholic."
--CNBC, Pozner/Donahue Show

[Antoninus]

In three different national polls taken since 1999, 30 percent to 50 percent of Catholics questioned about abortion said they believe abortion should remain legal in at least some circumstances. A Gallup poll done for CNN and USA Today in 1999 showed 50 percent of Catholics considered themselves abortion rights advocates while 46 percent said they opposed abortion.

These poll numbers smell phony to me. I'll bet anything that they polled people who simply self-identified as Catholics, and not those who actually attend Mass every Sunday. If they only polled church-goers, the numbers would be dramatically different, IMO.

[RedBloodedAmerican]

Why wasn't it posted under "Front Page" then? Why do you put all your posts in Breaking?

[Antoninus]

"If the Catholic Church were to kick out every pro-choice person or politician, the pews would be empty," said Frances Kissling, president of Catholics for Free Choice, a Washington-based advocacy group.

Why must the press ALWAYS seek out this non-Catholic dissenter when dealing with this issue? Perhaps we should give Ms. Gray an earful about it:

Contact KATHLEEN GRAY at 248-586-2603 or gray@freepress.com. Staff writer David Crumm contriuted to this report.

[Antoninus]

"The images are kind of hard to explain to the kids," said Sean Furlong, 36, of Plymouth as he was leaving Sunday services with his wife and three children.

Not really. They are actually an excellent lesson in how positively evil some people in the world can be. Children, innocents that they are, are almost always appalled by the idea of abortion because they haven't yet learned how to rationalize away wickedness.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

And so while they may criticize me for it, no church official has ever suggested that I should be excommunicated or that I am not a Catholic."

It's not a lie if you believe it, Frank. She isn't a Catholic and she's excommunicated herself latae sententiae in accordance with the Catechism and Canon law. Does she deserve excommunication ferendae sententiae? Of course she does. She no longer attends Mass and has separated herself from the Sacraments. Her bishop should make it official.

[Antoninus]

"Most people agree with me. As I travel in the United States and everywhere, the average Catholic who knows what I'm doing says, Oh, I'm so glad you're out there doing this. But when it comes to both right wing Catholics and also the hierarchy, they are extremely angry at anyone who speaks out against official teaching. And especially if you're successful at it, and particularly if you know what you're saying. So I do get a lot of flak from those people Although in the end, one of the beauties of the church is that they themselves believe in their own rules, and they know that I have a right to say what I'm saying. And so while they may criticize me for it, no church official has ever suggested that I should be excommunicated or that I am not a Catholic."

They have condemned her group and made it clear that she DOES NOT speak for the Catholic Church. See here: http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/dissent/nccbcffc.htm

Here's the text of the statement:

Statement issued by the National Council of Catholic Bishops authoritatively denying that Catholics for a Free Choice merit any recognition or support as a Catholic organization.

May 10, 2000

Galveston-Houston Bishop Joseph A. Fiorenza, president of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops/U. S. Catholic Conference, issued the following statement on the status of the organization "Catholics for a Free Choice":

For a number of years, a group calling itself Catholics for a Free Choice (CFFC), has been publicly supporting abortion while claiming it speaks as an authentic Catholic voice. That claim is false. In fact, the group's activity is directed to rejection and distortion of Catholic teaching about the respect and protection due to defenseless unborn human life.

On a number of occasions the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (NCCB) has stated publicly that CFFC is not a Catholic organization, does not speak for the Catholic Church, and in fact promotes positions contrary to the teaching of the Church as articulated by the Holy See and the NCCB.

CFFC is, practically speaking, an arm of the abortion lobby in the United States and throughout the world. It is an advocacy group dedicated to supporting abortion. It is funded by a number of powerful and wealthy private foundations, mostly American, to promote abortion as a method of population control. This position is contrary to existing United Nations policy and the laws and policies of most nations of the world.

In its latest campaign, CFFC has undertaken a concentrated public relations effort to end the official presence and silence the moral voice of the Holy See at the United Nations as a Permanent Observer. The public relations effort has ridiculed the Holy See in language reminiscent of other episodes of anti-Catholic bigotry that the Catholic Church has endured in the past.

As the Catholic Bishops of the United States have stated for many years, the use of the name Catholic as a platform for supporting the taking of innocent human life and ridiculing the Church is offensive not only to Catholics, but to all who expect honesty and forthrightness in public discourse. We state once again with the strongest emphasis: "Because of its opposition to the human rights of some of the most defenseless members of the human race, and because its purposes and activities deliberately contradict essential teachings of the Catholic faith,... Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization" (Administrative Committee, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, 1993).

[jackbill]

Granholm is the darling of the media.

Including ABC news. Last evening they had a story about all of the women running for governor (13?) and expecially focused on how this might lead to a woman president in the near future.

They mentioned that Granholm might be a good Vice-presidential candidate but that since she was born in Canada she is ineligible to become President. I e-mailed them suggesting that they read the 12th Amendment to the Constitution and they would know that she's not even eligible to be VP. Bunch of dunces.

[montag813]

But many were upset with the photos of aborted fetuses that were on display. "The images are kind of hard to explain to the kids,"

Yes, it is indeed hard to explain to your child how you and your wife support killing babies in the womb yet purporting that you are also a good Catholic.

Pretending you are not a hypocrite is indeed a challenge for pro-death parents.

[Antoninus]

My email to the author of this article:

Dear Ms. Gray,

I read with interest your story in the Detroit Free Press about Jennifer Granholm and her troubles with pro-life protesters at her parish in Plymouth, MI. I would like to take you to task for quoting Frances Kissling of "Catholics" for Free Choice in the article. You may not know this but Ms. Kissling's organization is for all intents and purposes an arm of the abortion industry, receiving most of its funding from multi-million dollar grants from private foundations interested in population control.

Furthermore, Ms. Kissling and her organization have been condemned by the National Council of Catholic Bishops who said, "We state once again with the strongest emphasis: 'Because of its opposition to the human rights of some of the most defenseless members of the human race, and because its purposes and activities deliberately contradict essential teachings of the Catholic faith,... Catholics for a Free Choice merits no recognition or support as a Catholic organization' (Administrative Committee, National Conference of Catholic Bishops, 1993).

I would urge you not to give this organization which operates under false pretenses the dignity of a mention in your stories. Or if you do, at least make it clear that the group has been condemned by the bishops and DOES NOT speak for the Catholic Church in any way, shape, or form.

Best regards,

"Antoninus"

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Church Militant bump!

[martian_22]

BTTT!
When the process and mechanics of death begin to be understood in a child's mind, it takes a lot of conditioning to keep the truth from awareness.

"a woman's choice", "getting rid of the problem", "taking resposibility for a pregnancy"
None of these phrases hold up to "killing a baby". I don't care if they call it "happy-faced apple pie", it's still killing a baby.

The left will let kids view any filthy image....the filthy images of aborted babies are forbidden because they show the true mechanics.

[aruanan]

Since when does she think she doesn't have a free choice? She and any other Catholic are free to choose to have an abortion or to live out-of-wedlock or to rob banks or to embezzle money from their employers or to have more than one spouse (conjointly or serially). What she wants, though, is to have the Church label her choice of abortion as "good, moral, right, holy, and consistent with church teaching".

[Lorianne]

Geez, what difference does it make if she is Catholic or not. She's pro-Choice. If abortion is an issue with a voter, he/she should vote their conscience.

Let's have a little seperation of Church and State.

[kcvl]

For more than twenty-five years, Frances Kissling has been where news is made. In the 1970s, she directed one of the first family planning clinics to provide legal abortions in the United States; in the 1980s, she became director of the controversial but respected organization Catholics for a Free Choice; and today Kissling is known around the world as a leader in the international reproductive health and feminist religious movements.

With her unique expertise and background, Kissling is a sought-after analyst and commentator worldwide on a range of subjects including reproductive health and ethics, religious fundamentalism, population policy, and Catholic church reform. A versatile and practiced communicator known both for her intellectual acumen and her quick-witted humor, Kissling is as capable and comfortable presenting thoughtful, well-researched analysis as she is delivering stimulating repartee. Kissling has given formal presentations to Britain's House of Lords, debated the US bishops' spokesperson on abortion, and brought thousands to their feet with an address at the 1995 Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing.

As president of Catholics for a Free Choice, Kissling works with a skillful and accomplished staff of researchers, writers, and analysts in challenging Catholic church leaders on some of today's most debated cultural and moral issues in some of the most significant forums, including this decade's United Nations conferences on women, the environment, and population and development. Kissling has also been the focus of news reports, demonstrating (and being arrested) at the Vatican embassy in Washington, DC, providing a dissident's commentary during bishops' conferences and papal visits, developing the skills of activists in Eastern Europe, and helping Catholic feminists throughout Latin America.

[Lorianne]

Ms. Magazine and NOW likes to imagine they speak for all feminists. They do not.

There are feminists the world over who do not believe in abortion, much less use that one issue as the very definition of being a "feminist".

Not all feminists are pro-abortion:

http://www.feministsforlife.org/
http://www.fnsa.org/
http://www.priestsforlife.org/articles/femquotes.html

[kcvl]

Statement of Frances Kissling, president of Catholics for A Free Choice
On the introduction of congressional resolutions regarding The “See Change" Campaign
February 25, 2000


Several Republican members of Congress (Sens. Rick Santorum and Bob Smith and Rep. Chris Smith) have introduced a resolution condemning The "See Change" Campaign and objecting to any effort to expel the Holy See from the UN. It should come as no surprise that Republican members of Congress should attempt to assuage the current charges of anti-Catholicism by one of the Republican candidates for president by attempting to push through a “motherhood and apple pie” resolution lauding the Roman Catholic church. It should come as no surprise that anti-family planning and anti-choice members of Congress would come to the defense of their staunchest ally, the Roman Catholic church. It should come as no surprise that those who held hostage the payment of our UN dues to their anti-family planning views would again threaten the UN with this resolution.

The resolution lauds the role played by the Holy See in the UN and threatens that any change in the Vatican’s status would “further damage relations between the United States and the United Nations.” We sincerely hope and urge legislators to avoid taking the easy out–and largely meaningless step–of voting for this resolution.

Catholics for a Free Choice is the initiator of The "See Change" Campaign–the international campaign calling on the United Nations secretary-general to review the current status of the Holy See at the United Nations. At the UN the Holy See is accorded many of the privileges of a state–privileges not granted to any other religion. The campaign has gained significant international support, with close to 400 organizations worldwide endorsing it. A signature gathering drive is currently underway to garner individual support.

The campaign was triggered by the ongoing obstructionist behavior the Holy See delegation has engaged in at United Nations conferences and meetings where women’s rights and reproductive health policy are under review. It is fair to ask, in light of Pope John Paul II’s own description of the Holy See’s role in the UN as “spiritual” and “very different from that of the states, which are communities in the political and temporal sense,” whether it is appropriate for it to hold state status.

The "See Change" Campaign will go forward. While respecting the right of the Roman Catholic Church to speak as a religion and as a nongovernmental organization, we maintain that the possession of 100 acres of office buildings, churches and tourist attractions in the center of Rome does not constitute a state. Groups and individuals committed to the separation of church and state, as well as those deeply concerned about reproductive health, women’s rights and the prevention of AIDS–all areas in which the church has used its status in the UN to restrict policies that would save lives–will continue to raise these issues in their countries and in the UN.

[kcvl]

Statement of Frances Kissling, President, Catholics for a Free Choice,
in response to comments of Texas Gov. George W. Bush


For immediate release Contact: Jon O'Brien
May 26, 2000 Work phone: +1 (202) 986-6093


Washington, DC--In the latest stop on his Bob Jones University redemption tour, Texas Gov. George W. Bush and his campaign once again played the Catholic card. In an attempt to please the Catholic bishops, the governor took a swipe at The "See Change" Campaign. He mischaracterized it as an effort to silence the voice of the Catholic church in the UN by calling for a revocation of its Permanent Observer status. Nothing could be further from the truth. What troubles the more than 525 organizations worldwide who endorsed The "See Change" Campaign is not the Vatican's Permanent Observer status, but the Roman Catholic church's status as a state. Catholics for a Free Choice, which is the initiator of the campaign, has clearly stated that it has no objection to the Vatican continuing to hold Permanent Observer status. The campaign's concern is that the Roman Catholic church, under the title of the Holy See, is the only religion to be recognized by the United Nations as a state. The campaign seeks a level playing field for all religious institutions within the UN.

Not only is the governor misinformed about The "See Change" Campaign, he is clearly ignorant of Catholic social teaching and views on a range of "prolife" issues. Opposition to legal abortion may make the nation's 300 plus Catholic bishops happy, but it will not win the support of the nation's 65 million Catholics, most of whom are prochoice. And, once the governor moves from abortion to other "life" issues, he is hopelessly out of sync with the views of both the bishops and American Catholics. The governor seems to forget that even in official Catholic circles, to be prolife means to be more than against abortion. Having presided over more than 130 executions, the governor is hardly an exemplar of the "culture of life."

Gov. Bush is in deep trouble if he thinks Catholic people will be fooled by pandering. There has been far too much pandering to the so-called Catholic vote. The governor is mistaken if he thinks he can use the Vatican's status at the UN as a way of distinguishing himself as a friend of Catholics. For most Americans, Catholic and otherwise, the question of the Vatican's status at the UN is not even on the radar screen. Catholics are concerned about access to health care, quality education for their children and the acceptance of government responsibility for those the less fortunate. To attract Catholic voters, the governor is going to have to deal with real issues.

-Statement Ends-

Catholics for a Free Choice is an independent, nonpartisan educational organization that shapes and advances sexual and reproductive ethics that are based on justice, reflect a commitment to women's well-being, and respect and affirm the moral capacity of women and men to make sound decisions about their lives. Through discourse, education, and advocacy, CFFC works in the United States and internationally to infuse these values into public policy, community life, feminist analysis, and Catholic social thinking and teaching. Catholics for a Free Choice does not support or oppose candidates for public office.