Posted on 07/23/2002 10:35:05 AM PDT by knighthawk
They have, in 1917. Kemal Mustafa (Ataturk) put the mullahs in their place, but he did have a couple of advantages that the current movement in Iran does not enjoy: (1) support of a tight, disciplined, secular cadre named the Young Turks, and (2) control of the army after the final defeat of the Ottoman empire in WWI. The theocrats screamed but he had the guns.
The current situation in Iran seems more similar to me to the one in China just prior to Tiananmen Square. As long as the current regime can restrict the enthusiasm to only a few students it will find that it can kill enough to prevail. But there are a couple of things working against the mullahs there - the age demographic has changed and there is a much higher proportion of youth in Iran than there was in 1979, and radical Islam has morphed from a romantic reaction to entrenched power to becoming an even more oppressive, entrenched power.
HA! Very good line.
It may come down to proseletizing Moslems and, eventually, turning Islam into a museum-piece, like Zoroastrism.
I've done a great deal of reading and thinking about this subject, and it is not obvious to me that there is more than one kind of Islam [nor is it obvious to me that there is more than kind of Christianity].
Jesus:
The Gospel according to
St. Matthew
Chapter 5
The Holy Bible
King James Version 2000Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Mohammed:
Medina Suras
The Chapter of Women
[Chapters from the Koran]
The Harvard Classics 1909–14But if there befalls you grace from God, he would say—as though there were no friendship between you and him—‘O would that I had been with thee to attain this mighty happiness!’ Let those then fight in God’s way who sell this life of the world for the next; and whoso fights in God’s way, then, be he killed or be he victorious, we will give him a mighty hire.
What ails you that ye do not fight in God’s way, and for the weak men and women and children, who say, ‘Lord, bring us out of this town 19 of oppressive folk, and make for us from Thee a patron, and make for us from Thee a help?’
Those who believe fight in the way of God; and those who disbelieve fight in the way of Tâghût; fight ye then against the friends of Satan, verily, Satan’s tricks are weak.
Do ye not see those to whom it is said, ‘Restrain your hands, and be steadfast in prayer and give alms;’ and when it is prescribed for them to fight then a band of them fear men, as though it were the fear of God or a still stronger fear, and they say, ‘O our Lord! why hast thou prescribed for us to fight, couldst thou not let us abide till our near appointed time?’ Say, ‘The enjoyment of this world is but slight, and the next is better for him who fears;’—but they shall not be wronged a straw.
... Why are ye two parties about the hypocrites, when God hath overturned them for what they earned? Do ye wish to guide those whom God hath led astray? Whoso God hath led astray ye shall not surely find for him a path. They would fain that ye misbelieve as they misbelieve, that ye might be alike; take ye not patrons from among them until they too flee in God’s way; but if they turn their backs, then seize them and kill them wheresoever ye find them, and take from them neither patron nor help,—save those who reach a people betwixt whom and you is an alliance—or who come to you while their bosoms prevent them from fighting you or fighting their own people. But had God pleased He would have given you dominion over them, and they would surely have fought you. But if they retire from you and do not fight you, and offer you peace,—then God hath given you no way against them.
Ye will find others who seek for quarter from you, and quarter from their own people; whenever they return to sedition they shall be overturned therein: but if they retire not from you, nor offer you peace, nor restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wheresoever ye find them;—over these we have made for you manifest power.
If you ever call an Iranian an Arab, he will quickly remind you he is a Persian, not an Arab (if you are lucky).
Indeed. Which is precisely how two Iranians who attended my college (some years ago) referred to themselves.
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