Sex, torture and erotic electrification in America's 'gay' churches

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Thursday, July 18, 2002 | By Stephen Bennett

[WyldKard]

First off Peter, I want to thank you for replying in a mature and adult manner, and not in the way your typical knee-jerk liberal at DU would.

I believe this is what the author was trying to point out. As Christians, we are in a spiritual war with the percieved evils that promote this type of conduct. Of course, the bottom line is that God gives all of us free will to choose the life we lead. If that's your thing, then go ahead and do it. But as Christians, it's incumbent upon us to do what we can to discourage it and show these folks a better way.

Well, I suppose thats the rub. While I think fisting and watersports are gross beyond measure, I don't exactly consider them "evil" per se...I guess the part of the article that disturbed me was what I felt to be the authors call for all of these behaviors to be eradicated EVERYWHERE, not just from workshops in the church. That's what got me worried, because all of the sudden, we get these Constitution-violating socialist rules that try to dictate peoples behavior in their own bedroom. Perhaps I read too much into the article, on that particular facet...

If nothing else, your argument has swayed me much more over to the side of "this really should NOT be happening in a Church." And again, the only advice I can offer is that folks need to vote with their feet. If your church does it, get them to stop. If they won't, go elsewhere.

[WyldKard]

I think the main thing that the author was really upset about was the fact that this "church" was operating under the name of the Lord Jesus, and that this is major blasphemy.

Yeah, I agree with you here. However, it's this part of the article that made me pause:

Friends, these sick and perverted "workshops" are not only going on in the Metropolitan Community Churches in California, but others around the country as well. Much of this chilling information is readily available right on the Internet.

So it's on the Internet. So what? Is the author now suggesting a complete Bowdlerization of the Internet? I didn't see how the statement was related. But as I mentioned before, maybe I just read too much into it and the paragraph that comes after it as a statement of: "We must not only eradicate educational Workshops from a Church, but must eradicate them everywhere we find them, no matter how private or secular the venue" And THAT is not exactly something I can get behind, as a Constitutionalist.

Like you, I agree that if these people want to exert their free will and live like this, fine. But I draw the line at using the Lord's name to promote it.

Yes, you do have a point. Okay, I'm sold. These folks shouldn't be letting them use their church for this sort of thing. However, taken to extremes, doesn't this mean that all things not immediately relating to Christ shouldn't be in the Church? (Bingo Night, etc etc?)

[gunnedah]

You certainly are entitled to your opinion.But this is the very reason the homosexual movement is taking over this country.When AIDs wrecks havoc on America the way it does Africa maybe you will change your tune.America has turned a corner from which she will never recover I am affraid.We are a sick nation and no longer have a conscience or moral values.

[WyldKard]

You certainly are entitled to your opinion.But this is the very reason the homosexual movement is taking over this country.When AIDs wrecks havoc on America the way it does Africa maybe you will change your tune.America has turned a corner from which she will never recover I am affraid.We are a sick nation and no longer have a conscience or moral values.

I think Africa being a bunch of dirt poor barbarians who can't pull their s*** together long enough to get appropriate education and health facilities have a lot more to do with it than anything else. Same goes for the Chinese. If anything, I expect the level of AIDS to remain fairly steady in the US, while it explodes in the Third World countries (and places that are RUN like them, ie China.)

As for America being a sick country that has lost it's way...it would certainly be easy to make that argument. However, I think the most damage was done by people like FDR, LBJ and Nixon, who essentially showed all the politicians how to destroy the Constitution and be hailed as a hero for doing it, much more than any so-called "homosexual agenda".

[AppyPappy]

You are missing the point. I don't recall mainstream churches having this kind of activity. Beating people, even with their permission, is not a Christian activity. This is clearly a front, not a church.

[PeterPrinciple]

"that try to dictate peoples behavior in their own bedroom"

I don't know how you get to the point of "dictating behaviour". I personally don't mind being held to high standards and holding others to high standards..but this is not dictating.

You have a lot of the baggage from the "if it feels good do it crowd."

[freebilly]

It will be a wild demonstration-lecture and no actual fisting will be done on the premises, but a videotape will supply the missing visuals. Join us at the MCC Church Hall at 4333 30th Street, across the way from the Aztec Bowling Alley.

That would be Boweling Alley

[arm958]

I can't figure out whether you actually believe the tripe you have posted or if you are so bored and friendless that posting ammoral, inflammatory opinions to bait people is your idea of fun. You're a loser either way.

[freebilly]

I don't seem to remember the Bible complaining about dripping wax on ones partner, or flogging them, and don't really understand what business it is of the authors to crab about this sort of thing. It sounds more like his problem is with anything that isn't missionary style sex.

The Bible does tell us as Christians that we are not to associate with those who engage in "unnatural lusts."

[MortMan]

In one sense, we agree. What the debauched do amongst themselves is not at issue. What is at issue, however, is the deviants' coopting the name of religion by soiling a church with their activities.

It's another case of pushing the homosexual agenda. They may have a right to do what they do, but I also have a right to object. Trying to deceive by raising their banners under color of religion is especially gruesome, to me.

[Lazamataz]

I disagree in the strongest possible terms with your thesis. There is no room for sexual intercourse in any church, temple, or other place of worship -- unless you are a Satanist.

The body is of this world. The spirit is of the next world.

Enjoy your body and that of your commited life partner, but not in a place of worship, please.

[Lazamataz]

These folks shouldn't be letting them use their church for this sort of thing.

Okay, you came around. Good for you.

However, taken to extremes, doesn't this mean that all things not immediately relating to Christ shouldn't be in the Church? (Bingo Night, etc etc?)

Bingo probably could go. It's pretty much gambling.

[Miss Lemon]

Your 100% right, Pappy. This has nothing to do with glorifying Christ, but everything to do with glorifying a deviant lifestyle.

[WyldKard]

I disagree in the strongest possible terms with your thesis. There is no room for sexual intercourse in any church, temple, or other place of worship -- unless you are a Satanist.

I don't believe I ever said that Sexual Intercourse was okay in a Church. In fact, I think I actually said in one of my posts that actual sexual intercourse was NOT okay. I'm sorry if there was some confusion on that down the line...

[B-Chan]

"Cathedral of Hope" -- Dallas' own GayChurch-- is about to celebrate its 32nd anniversary ("Acclaimed Dragapella Beauty Shop Quartet to Appear at CoH 32nd Anniversary Gala"). Faaaaaabulous! They also have an active "Gay & Lesbian Youth Ministry". Some reporter ought to check that out...

B-chan

[mhking]

The Bible says the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were dripping hot wax on each other, flogging each other, and zapping each other with electricity? Wow! I MUST have missed that part. Please point it out, because *that* CERTAINLY must have been ripped out of any copy of the Bible *I* have ever seen. It sounds way better than any of the erotica in the Song of Solomon! :)

Touche - but what I was implying is that the story of Sodom and Gomorrah indicated that "debauchery" was rampant. I took that to mean that activities such as this (of course, electricity wasn't present at that point, but I think you know what I mean).

It doesn't sit right with me, and I stated as much previously. Unfortunately, a Church has a right to do what it wants, and the only people who can tell it otherwise are the people who make up the Church. If you can't get the Church you attend to stop supporting stuff (either through direct sponsership, or by letting their facilities be used) you don't like, then you have to vote with your feet, and find a new place to go...

This is true, but is this truly a church given that point?

In his article, the author never says if the MCC directly sponsered this stuff, or merely let the groups use their space. Trust me, you MUST know churchs allow groups not affiliated with them to use their space. My monthly Unreal Tournament LAN party group meets at the local Methodist church, for instance, but we never get anything more than the use of the space.

Point well taken - but I'm sure that activities that run counter to the beliefs of the church would not be permitted. And as long as you don't camp and pick off the newbies, I'm sure the Unreal party works as well...[g]

If they are killing children....well DUH!!! Of course one would want it shut down immediately, and the sickos involved brought to justice. You can't even begin to compare killing children to a couple of consenting adults spanking each other, for crying out loud.

Funny you mention this - the House of Prayer case here in Atlanta just had a trial date set for September. This very question is coming into play with that case. (for those who don't know, a somewhat charismatic preacher has imposed his own form of child rearing and discipline - including flogging of errant children by church members during church services - on the church. The preacher also arranges marriages for members, marrying off girls as young as 14; he promotes an isolationist mindset to his members; the church actually borders being a cult -- the preacher and some members are going on trial on child abuse charges)

After some honest thought, I can't answer the question you raise regarding whether or not this is sanctioned. My initial (albeit knee-jerk) reaction is that the church is flat-foot wrong, though.

[WyldKard]

Well, first off, thanks for your well thought out and polite replies.

After some honest thought, I can't answer the question you raise regarding whether or not this is sanctioned. My initial (albeit knee-jerk) reaction is that the church is flat-foot wrong, though.

Well, after some honest thought of my own, I've decided that in the end, while Churchs are going to do whatever they want to do, you really should not be doing anything in said Church that runs counter to the beliefs of the members there. I mean, personally, I don't care what the hell these people want to do with each other in private, but I have to confess..I wasn't exactly comfortable with these workshops (which appear to be instructional only, and don't actually have people engaging in sexual intercourse) happening in a church, and I'm even less comfortable with the idea after this debate. These folks might as well be Unitarians if they are going to do this kind of thing in their church, I suppose...

[Shryke]

I actually agree with several of your points listed above. What I wantd to ask you, and others here, though, is this: does anyone find this Stephen Bennet's detailed, relentless reporting of homosexual conduct a tad......obsessive? This guy talks about more odd sex acts than Penthouse Forum. I am beginning to wonder if this guy is going to turn out like some corrupt televangelist, constantly condemning sins while privately indulging in them.

[dagoofyfoot]

Oh Lord have mercy, I'm afraid of what my God would do when this activity becomes acceptable. This is too evil for words. I'm shocked that this subject is even debated here. What on God's green earth is happening here?

[F16Fighter]

A primary symptom of those in the asylum is the belief that everyone else has a warped perspective.