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'Flag of convenience' raises concern (Osama bin Laden owns fleet of cargo ships!)
The Everett Herald ^ | June 14, 2002 | AP

Posted on 06/14/2002 9:48:15 AM PDT by Robert357

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To: Robert357
A commercial pilot told me the Coast Guard boards (I believe he said) ALL ships before they enter our Houston Ship Channel. So, they're on the lookout, but until we can truly check all cargo (which ideally should be done at sea, by the way) we're at very high risk of a problem.
41 posted on 06/14/2002 9:08:07 PM PDT by walden
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To: areafiftyone
Really, the same horde of unemployed that we're tapping for airport security?

The reality is that unemployment is low in this country and that many of the unemployed aren't exactly fine working material (i.e. lazy) or have criminal records or have substance problems. These are the people you want doing inspections? How hard would it be to bribe them? Because you won't be recruiting among dot.com programmers.

42 posted on 06/14/2002 9:30:51 PM PDT by LenS
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To: Robert357
The Karina A, a ship seized by the Israeli navy last January with a cargo of 50 tons of weapons headed for the Palestinian Authority, was owned by an Iraqi and flew the flag of Tonga under a registry run by a Greek company.

There's one country they forgot to mention here: The stuff on board the Karin A. was provided by Iran. That's interesting if the owner is Iraqi. So was the Iraqi a Shiite or just a free lancer?

43 posted on 06/15/2002 2:47:10 AM PDT by piasa
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To: rageaholic
I'm just guessing the more likely than not, the ships are indirectly owned, and you go through several layers of bureaucracies in multiple countries. For example, the ship may be flagged in Liberia with one person (or corporation) listed as the owner in Liberian records. Liberia being Liberia, the money is more important than anything else so people may be bribed to 'modify' this or that registration in order to confuse anyone who inquires. The owners, meanwhile, aren't neccessarily based in Liberia. So you may have a Nigerian corporation owning a ship lagged in Liberia. This means that you have a whole new bureaucracy with which to launder your ship's indentification. Corporations that own the Liberian-flagged vessels may be based in Nigeria, but the shareholders can be anywhere. Add to that the fact that some of these folks- Usama for one- have multiple identities and even stolen identities, even more developed than those New York residents who own Florida houses and cars who vote in both New York and Fort Lauderdale. Then you have to throw in leasing... where ships could be flagged in Liberia, owned by a corporation based in Nigeria, which has leased the ship (or part of the cargo space) to yet another corporation, which is headquartered in Qatar, and which in turn has subletted cargo space to a company out of Cyprus. In amid all of those shareholders could be people acting as assistants who each own a block of shares, but who actually have a relationship to bin Laden by blood or by loyalty... but who do not themselves have anything in their background which would set off alarms. It's not easy mucking through the paper trails.
44 posted on 06/15/2002 3:20:22 AM PDT by piasa
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To: areafiftyone
I like the idea of citizens organizing volunteer teams standing ready to assist. Unpaid volunteer civil safety teams made a difference in WWII. President Bush has asked for help from citizens. Action instead of whining and second guessing. We're good at cleaning up messes (Ground Zero, etc) and giving donations. What's that word so popular right now..."pro-active"? How about the Department of Homeland Security adding a citizens volunteer sub-department!!
45 posted on 06/15/2002 4:09:48 AM PDT by not-an-ostrich
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To: Robert357
Rep. Frank Wolf, R-Va., singled out Liberia, citing U.N. reports that revenues from its flag registry were channeled to a Russian arms dealer with ties to the Taliban and al-Qaida.

Liberia has easier rules of registration, which saves money. Next time you take a cruise, check out the ship's registration. Most likely it will be Liberia.

46 posted on 06/15/2002 4:42:31 AM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: texasbluebell
I don't know why there aren't more people being trained to do this inspecting, unless the money is not there to do it at the moment.

There's money being sent out in the billions for welfare payments. Why can't some of these recipients "earn" their monthly check in a manner like this cargo inspection? Where there's a will, there's a way. I just don't think there's a will.

47 posted on 06/15/2002 5:43:30 AM PDT by shezza
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To: areafiftyone
We can hire the millions of illegals that Jorge wants to bring in. They can greet their relatives as they step out of the containers. Nothing will be done about this. It may get in the way of some powerful person making every single dollar they can. I am sure some of them are in the Senate and House. Only a moral, informed socirty can defend itself effectively. We are neither. The chance that Hitlery could be president and some of the othet slime balls that are in govt. prove that we only care about whats in it for us.
48 posted on 06/15/2002 7:13:42 AM PDT by willyone
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To: Honcho
Like all that cheap immigrant labor both legal and illegal. Like that cheap slave labor from our early days. We are not going to like it when the real bill is presented for payment.
49 posted on 06/15/2002 7:17:32 AM PDT by willyone
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To: Robert357
It's not just our ports that we have to worry about. A good number of cargo containers bound for the midwest are discharged at the Port of Montreal. This is done to avoid the onerous Harbor Maintenance Fee (HMF) that is assessed on all cargo imported through U.S. ports. The HMF is 0.125% of the value of the imported cargo (another hidden tax foisted upon us by the government). From Montreal, they are put on double-stack rail flatcars and transit through heavily populated areas of Canada to Port Huron, Michigan where they travel through the rail tunnel under the St. Clair River. From Port Huron, they travel across Michigan to the large rail yards in Detroit and Chicago.

I'm a licensed customs broker (a person who is authorized by Customs to transact import business on behalf of importers). I can tell you that Customs rarely inpects any imported freight. In fact, I act as the customs officer in some import transactions. When freight is imported, you have to file an entry with Customs before it can be released into the commerce of the United States. To file entry, you simply enter all of the information pertaining to the shipment into the computer and transmit it to Customs' computer system, which is called ABI. When you transmit to ABI, you get a response back from ABI indicating whether or not entry documents are required or the entry is certified for electronic release. If entry documents are required, you simply print a Customs Form 3461 and attach all of the supporting documents (bills of lading, commercial invoices, etc.) and send it to Customs. When it goes to Customs, most of the time they rubber stamp the entry documents and return the form to you. The freight has cleared Customs. They rarely inspect the cargo. In some cases where I act as the Customs officer, I transmit the entry data to ABI and ABI performs an edit check on the data. It checks things such as who the shipper and consignee are, what commodities are being imported, etc. If ABI determines that all of the data is within certain parameters, the freight is electronically released. I print the CF3461 and sign it in lieu of the Customs officer and send it to the warehouse or rail yard where the freight is located and the freight has cleared Customs and can be released by the importing carrier. All of this without Customs ever seeing so much as one piece of paper regarding the shipment. I do this every day and every time I do it, I think about what could be in the shipment that I just cleared through Customs.

50 posted on 06/15/2002 7:38:34 AM PDT by RAT_Poison
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To: RAT_Poison
I think about what could be in the shipment that I just cleared through Customs.

Very interesting. Thank you for the insights. Reading your explaination, caused me to reflect on the commercial truck with haz waste endorsements that were illegally acquired by middle-eastern men in the US and the survellence of haz waste cargo. Have there been any rumors about licensed customs brokers who don't seem to have quite the right credentials entering the business in the past few years, especially if they are of middle eastern background?

51 posted on 06/15/2002 7:57:33 AM PDT by Robert357
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To: Robert357
I'm not sure about that. It's not that hard to get a customs broker's license, though. The test that Customs administers to get your license is four and a half hours long and consists of 100 questions with multiple choice answers, of which you must get 75 correct. It deals with Customs laws pertaining to commercial imports as opposed to the law enforcement functions of Customs. After you pass the test, you must undergo an FBI background check and fingerprinting. My license number is in the 15,000 range and I got it in 1997. There are probably only around 20,000 licensed customs brokers in the U.S. The names of all licensed customs brokers are public record. That's why I'm always solicited by out of state headhunters looking for brokers.

In the Detroit area, which has a huge Arab population, I'm not aware of any licensed customs brokers of Middle Eastern descent. I deal with a lot of my competition in one way or another on almost a daily basis and I don't believe that I've ever dealt with anyone of Middle Eastern descent working in the industry, at least in the Detroit area. I'm sure that there are brokers of Middle Eastern descent in other parts of the country, though.

P.S. Anything that is imported into the United States, with very few exceptions, is routed through a customs broker. It's one of those odd occupations that you don't really hear too much about, but is intimately involved in the commerce of the United States. For many years, I've felt that having an insider at a customs broker would be an effective way to smuggle just about anything you wanted into the country right under the noses of the authorities. There is always the chance that the scheme would be detected, just like any smuggling operation could be, but there's just something about performing covert operations in plain sight of the authorities that makes it harder to detect. It's kind of like when a judge subpoenas a company's records looking for one piece of paper and the company delivers ALL of their records to the judge in a semi-truck. The evidence you're looking for is right in front of you but you don't know where to begin to find it.

52 posted on 06/15/2002 9:05:14 AM PDT by RAT_Poison
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To: shezza
I just don't think there's a will.

I think you're right...

53 posted on 06/15/2002 9:06:48 AM PDT by texasbluebell
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: 1Old Pro
I imagine they have. I would appreciate it if someone could provide the name of the shipping companies owned, operated or controlled by Bin Ladin. There was the question of a small Emirates outfit with three ships and company offices in four Middle East countries the CIA had tracked for a long time, but perhaps there is more to the story. Perhaps it is time to dust off the old Naval intelligence effort that did such a wonderful job during the Cold War keeping track of vessels in international waters. On second thought, I'll bet it never went out of business, Berlin Wall or no Berlin Wall.
56 posted on 06/15/2002 3:57:46 PM PDT by gaspar
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