Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese (Debate? "Gay" is a disqualifying frame of mind)

Centre Daily Times (State College PA) ^ | May. 12, 2002 | Mike Joseph

[Notwithstanding]

Chastity (sexual activity only in accord with one's state in life and with virtue) is a scriptural requirement - period. In other words, a person can only have intercourse with his till-death-do-we-part SPOUSE and only when it is open to the transmission of human life. Same-sex activity, adultery, fornication, affairs, birth control, masturbation, etc. are always forbidden. No extra vow needed.

Celibacy, however, is a discipline imposed by the Church upon nearly all of those whom she calls to be ordained as priests. It is this simple: It is not sinful to get married - but it is once you solemnly vow not to do so.

[sinkspur]

But how will that happen if we keep telling them that their sexual disorientation is just an alternate healthy lifestyle?

Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative.

Read the passage in Romans. It is very harsh and says just what I told you it does. Read it.

I'm aware of it. Read the Catholic Catechism. It encourages compassion for the PERSON, while not compromising with the ACT.

[tbeatty]

WRONG! Pope Leo XIII once wrote that homosexuality is "a sin so vile that even the angels of hell are repulsed by it". The Church has ALWAYS condemned it and even the new testament says that God leaves homosexuals "to the death they deserve" and refuses to help them. Look, I am no homophobe. I feel sorry for the poor, sickly, disordered wierdos. But what in hell kind of foolish thinking does it take to make one ordain a SODOMITE to the priesthood? For cripes sake! The present scandal is one of homosexuality in the priesthood, not pedophelia. Remember that pedophilia is sex with preteens. But the Sodomite priests have buggered boys in their late teens to the tune of more than 95% of all the cases. Do I have to tell you that men who have sex with young men are sodomites? Is it THAT difficult for you?

You oviously didn't read what I wrote or read the latest Pope's edict on homosexuality which essentially says hate the sin, love the sinner.

We are all sinners. It is impossible to live without sin. But we must try. For you to classify someone else's sin as worse than your own or more incompatible with a church calling than your own sins reeks of judgement far worse than the sin itself. Judgement of that sort is left to God. Being attracted to members of the same sex is not the sin, acting on those feelings is. For priests, acting on any sexual feelings towards children, men or women is incompatible with being a priest. Priests who take advantage of any parishioners in this way should lose their parish responsibilities.

It's simple. The Church doesn't need a 'thought police.' Remove those priests not strong enough to resist temptations of the flesh. Otherwise, let them continue to serve God.

[Notwithstanding]

Sink,

I have met too many priests who are "gay" - not merely homosexual. (Note the distinction in post 14 above).

The "Dignity" crowd is not about hating their same-sex attraction. They are about embracing their same-sex attraction and celebrating it with "Pride".

Any such "dignity"-type priests/nuns or catechists/theologians/decision-makers/spokemen/representatives of the Church need to be tossed - now.

Church teaching is clear and they are not following - nor do they have any intent to do so. They do not consider their same-sex attraction disordered nor do they wish they were straight. (Whereas an alcoholic wishes he were rid of his disorder).

[Aquinasfan]

Why does the bishop allow secular "experts" to approve who does or does not become a Catholic priest?

That's the whole thing right there.

[Thorondir]

American Catholic Catechism is wrong in part, and the Pope has ordered the American Bishops repeatedly to change it to comply with Catholic teaching. But they simply break their vows of obedience and disobey him. And the whole liberal establishment is telling the sodomites that their alternative deathstyle is normal and healthy. It is being pushed on children in public schools and in the entertainment media. Where have you been?

[sinkspur]

Any such "dignity"-type priests/nuns or catechists/theologians/decision-makers/spokemen/representatives of the Church need to be tossed - now.

Well, you know that the Pope doesn't "toss" people out of the Church, with rare exceptions. At this point in his papacy, I doubt he'll start now.

He lets the wheat grow up with the chaff, which may be wise.

[Thorondir]

Why I am bothering to repond to your puerile attempt at discorse is a mystery. However:

I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood.

I disagree with ordaining to the priesthood those who dream of the behavior that compelled God to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. You apparently think it is fine. Disagreeing is something people do. It is something justice and truth call for when somebody purports something immoral or foolish.

You oviously didn't read what I wrote or read the latest Pope's edict on homosexuality which essentially says hate the sin, love the sinner.

I DID read what you wrote, and I found it wrongheaded and disagreeable. My response has nothing to do with the Pope's writings and is not in disagreement with him. But you would know this if you had the rationality to understand the written English word.

For you to classify someone else's sin as worse than your own or more incompatible with a church calling than your own sins reeks of judgement far worse than the sin itself.

Nothing in my post indicated this. But you would know this if you were able to think through a simple English sentence and display a modicum of analytical thought. So I really can't help you any more. Your problem is beyond the scope of this forum. Get some education in English and have somebody help you with logic and anylitical thinking. Life should not be so confusing, and there is help out there.

Good luck.

[Thorondir]

He lets the wheat grow up with the chaff, which may be wise.

Lord help us! CHAFF does not grow up with the wheat, my friend. Chaff is the hull on the grain. WEEDS grow up with the wheat. Chaff is to be winnowed away, according to Jesus. But your tortured paraphrase inadvertently brings up another good point, and that is that the Church is FILLED with comfortable, complacent chaff that may well be winnowed away in the end and thrown into the unquenchable fire if it is not awakened before it is too late.

I wait with baited breath for the bizzaaaarre misinterpretations to come.

[yendu bwam]

How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not? There are plenty of homosexuals out there who are not priests. In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

I got my threads mixed up in the past posts. Sorry. My original point was that the Catholic Church now seems to have an inordinate number of homosexual child molestors, and inordinate number of active homosexual priests, and an inordinate number of homosexual priests in general. Since I do not know who is who (and you're right - there's no way to know for sure), I have reached the conclusion that it's dangerous to have my sons alone around any priest - not only from the point of view of sexual molestation, but from the point of view of having confidence that my sons are being taught authentic Christian sexual morality. Yes, there are many wonderful priests, and many (presumably) good homosexual and chaste priests. But I will not risk my sons' welfare on just so-so odds. Major segments of the Catholic Church have been turned into gay brothels and far, far, far too many priests have become teenage boy rapists. I simply cannot presume my sons' well-being around any Catholic priest.

[sinkspur]

It's completely retarded to let secular psychologists and sociologists decide, influence, or screen who is to be a Catholic priest.

Well, my friend, the clerics and hierarchs have made such a mess of things that "secular" specialists are about to become an integral part of every vocation board in the United States.

Priests screening for future priests exclusively won't be a part of the process for determining seminary candidates ever again.

[Kevin Curry]

How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not?

Bingo. Homosexuality os a state-of-mind, a behavior, and an inclination to behavior. It is not a separate and special species or gender of human being. That's why so-called "gay rights" are nonsensical and absurd. How can a state-of-mind have "rights" let alone exercise rights?

Hint: it can't.

However, if a parent is made aware of or suspects a particular man possesses the gay state-of-mind the parent can and certainly mark the man for close watching.

[sinkspur]

American Catholic Catechism is wrong in part, and the Pope has ordered the American Bishops repeatedly to change it to comply with Catholic teaching.

I have the latest version, which was approved by John Paul II, and it says exactly what the earlier version said about homosexuality.

Where have YOU been?

[Thorondir]

Perhaps they got their act together and stopped being disobedient. I don't have the latest one, but teach from the Baltimore. And do you still stand by the following wacky statement?

Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative.

This is why I asked you where you have been, for our society is full of people saying this. Simply throwing my question back at me as a clever touche zinger is both childish and ingenuous. I would hope that you could do better, but each post I read from you leads me to further dispair of any hope for a challenging discourse. That you fail to see your own irrational mistakes makes improvement seem hopeless.

[yendu bwam]

I daresay God does help homosexuals, if they ask.

God helps anyone who asks and truly wants the help. Homosexuals are loved by God, just as anyone else. But what's difficult is that many active homosexuals (those who engage in homosexual acts) have been conditioned to believe that they don't heed any help. When a man feels it's good and normal and Godly to put his sexual organ up another man's rectum, or to engage in multiple sex acts with anonymous partners, he clearly needs help. The Catechism makes all the sense in the world, and is true to scripture. The acts are sinful and disordered, but the homosexual is loved by God.

[Jorge]

I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood. Engaging in homosexual acts is however.

This is like saying being a thief should not disqualify one from the prieshood. Stealing, however should.

[Jorge]

"Nobody I know is telling homosexuals that their lifestyle is a healthy alternative."

This is why I asked you where you have been, for our society is full of people saying this.

Yes, there are "gay Christian" groups, and even entire churches ( the MCCC for example )that claim homosexuality is a gift from God, and should be celebrated.