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'Metal Storm' weapons may replace Crusader
UPI Wire ^ | 5/12/2002 12:01 PM | UPI Editor At Large

Posted on 05/12/2002 9:24:18 AM PDT by greydog

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To: BillCompton
You really can't argue against efficiency - in the military sphere or elsewhere.
41 posted on 05/12/2002 12:10:44 PM PDT by Hoplite
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To: jwfiv
Sustained fire support is hard to provide with aircraft, and that is coming from a fighter guy. Aircraft are good for on call close air support, and messing up the rear of the enemy. Heavy mech needs the support of heavy mobile artillery. The better C3 and fire support you can give to infantry and armor, the less they have to fight. With proper fire support from self propelled artillery, like Crusader and MLRS, our infantry and armor can spend more time directing fire and less time bleeding.
42 posted on 05/12/2002 12:12:42 PM PDT by USNBandit
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: in the Arena
Maybe this is a technology from the folks who brought you Internet IPOs.

Still, with our weapons made in Australia and everything else being made in China, we can kick back and relax.

44 posted on 05/12/2002 12:31:12 PM PDT by bloggerjohn
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To: PuNcH
Sorry, last post not aimed at you. Clicked post reply too soon.
45 posted on 05/12/2002 12:34:16 PM PDT by null and void
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To: in the Arena
I realize I am being very skeptical of this technology but I feel this is a solution looking for a problem.

---------------------

In small caliber I don't understand what this thing would be used for. I can't see how it would be better than existing systems. I can't see how ammunition would be fed to service it.

46 posted on 05/12/2002 12:38:44 PM PDT by RLK
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To: in the Arena
Go look at the video, it's incredible. It answers all your questions and more.
47 posted on 05/12/2002 12:40:42 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: BillCompton
I don't think you're understanding the nature of this technology. There is no "muzzle blast." It doesn't use an explosion to propell the projectile.

You are the one that doesn't understand the technology of "Metal Storm". It uses multiple barrels that have multiple charges and projectiles in each barrel. There will definitely be muzzle blast. Lots of muzzle blast.

48 posted on 05/12/2002 12:47:31 PM PDT by Double Tap
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To: Jay W
Agreed. And your warning and scenario regarding future enemies is exactly the point of my series of books about the next world war:


Dragom's Fury - Breath of Fire

A Novel of the next World War

Regards.

49 posted on 05/12/2002 12:48:45 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: RLK
I think that "Metal Storm" is an answer to a question that was never asked. And from looking at the web site and downloading all the videos, I think that the main purpose of this system is to put money in the pocket of the "inventor", not that that is a bad thing. The problem I have is that the demonstrations mostly show multiple barrel weapons firing single shots out of each barrel at high rates until all the barrels have fired. No barrel fires more than one round.

In the video of a single barrel firing three rounds, it is on a test bed and looks very rudimentary. I think most of this is pure hype.

50 posted on 05/12/2002 12:57:05 PM PDT by Double Tap
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To: greydog
Most of Metal Storm's work is top secret. Already under development is an "area denial weapons system," including an unmanned aerial combat vehicle that will carry twelve 40-mm mortar boxes comprising a total of 1,200 tubes, and armed with 7,200 grenades. The system's unprecedented firing capabilities can lay down a continuous 50-meter-wide carpet of grenades for about two miles, firing all its grenades simultaneously with a five-yard separation on impact.

Oh yeah ? Prove it works ! Show us a demo on say ... downtown Mecca, Saudi Arabia during ramadan ! ;)


51 posted on 05/12/2002 12:59:08 PM PDT by pyx
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To: RLK; McGavin999
RLK:

I have the same question. In small arms...what's the point ? Imagine tripping and sticking your barrel(s) in the mud...or in this case, four barrels...no chance of running a cleaning rod through due to the barrels being jammed up with "rounds".

McGavin999:

Which video ? I didn't see one that executes a re-load...I would be interested in seeing how this is accomplished.

52 posted on 05/12/2002 1:00:14 PM PDT by in the Arena
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To: RLK
I realize I am being very skeptical of this technology but I feel this is a solution looking for a problem.

True. Of course in a day of bows and arrows, the same could have been said about the first single-shot firearms.

In small caliber I don't understand what this thing would be used for. I can't see how it would be better than existing systems. I can't see how ammunition would be fed to service it.

It's not *better,* it's different. Think of it as a Roman candle, with multiple charges and projectiles stacked in the barrel, ready to be fired electronically in sequence. And there are likely ways of developing it as a recoilless system, as per the Burney gun, the WWII and Korean-era recoilless rifles, and the current German *Armbrust* Light antitank weapon.

Rather than a replacement for long-range artillery with 25-40-mile ranges, a large caliber variant *might* be able to replace or augment the mortar and its ammunition, offering a preloaded multishot launch tube, disposed of after use. As for the practicality of a preloaded weapon whose launcher/barrel is discarded after use, any grunt who's used a M72A2 LAW [L/ight A/ntitank W/eapon] rocket launcher is familiar with the concept.

Most likely immediate uses? a replacement for land mines, as a possible successor to the M18A1 Claymnore mine, essentially an explosive shotgun mine. And a very likely application for fitting aboard tanks to discourage unfriendly visitors from climbing on them while they're buttoned up, obviating the need for a nearby vehicle to *scratch my back* with co-axial machinegun fire, which can be hard on the recipient vehicle's optics, antennas, and externally stowed OVM. The likelihood that something along the line of Metalstorm could be used by combat vehicles as a sort of continuous Claymore against incoming wire-guided antitank projectiles is another happy thought, similar to the use of the MK 15 Phalanx CIWS against Harpoon/Silkworm/Exocet/other ski-skimming missiles, as an improvement over the externally mounted white phosphorous and grenade launchers now used for that purpose is another needed near-future likely application.

A replacement for traditional artillery or small arms? Not in this decade, likely not in the next. But someday, maybe. And for now, an augmentation to those other systems. -archy-/-

53 posted on 05/12/2002 1:08:02 PM PDT by archy
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To: BillCompton

I don't think you're understanding the nature of this technology. There is no "muzzle blast." It doesn't use an explosion to propell the projectile.

I like the old fashioned, 'Pull the trigger and *blamo*' mechanical contraptions.

What is this new fangled stuff ? Is it like, the electronic 'rail gun' that uses magnetic induction to fire projectiles or sumthin' ? If it is, its way over this pharm boy's head.


54 posted on 05/12/2002 1:09:47 PM PDT by pyx
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To: Double Tap
You are the one that doesn't understand the technology of "Metal Storm". It uses multiple barrels that have multiple charges and projectiles in each barrel. There will definitely be muzzle blast. Lots of muzzle blast.

Or backblast, if it's arranged as a recoilless weapon, venting its exhaust gasses rearward through a central vent past doughnut-shaped projectiles and prop charges. A few years back the Navy did considerable experimentation on *Ring airfoils* and Metalstorm might be developed as a launcher for such projectiles.

But essentially, it's an electrically-fired Roman candle, and that idea has been used before. Interestingly, the Germans had a followon design to their WWII Mk108 aircraft cannon that was to have used a liquid *fuel* propellant, and which would have had multiple projectiles in the barrel simultaneously. The rate of fire could have been well in excess of 20,000 rounds per minute, as designed, but never advancing to the prototype stage, so far as I know.

-archy-/-

55 posted on 05/12/2002 1:15:58 PM PDT by archy
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To: PuNcH
>>>In the form of an smg or pistol, having to change out your barrels to reload sounds really ineffective. <<<

Picture a clip with the rounds lined up one after the other - end to end - instead of on top of one another. Thats the clip/barrel of this type weapon!

Suggest you got to post #23 and view the video at the Metal Storm site. Pretty damn impressive if you ask me! you may not want to throw too many rocks at the concept!

56 posted on 05/12/2002 1:18:24 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: pyx
I like the old fashioned, 'Pull the trigger and *blamo*' mechanical contraptions.

What is this new fangled stuff ? Is it like, the electronic 'rail gun' that uses magnetic induction to fire projectiles or sumthin' ? If it is, its way over this pharm boy's head.

Nah. Think of it as a box of Roman candles, set off electrically with an electronic switching setup. Even an old plough jockey could rig something along those basic lines up- the real trick will be in the materials and projectile design.


57 posted on 05/12/2002 1:21:35 PM PDT by archy
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: archy
>>>Or backblast, if it's arranged as a recoilless weapon,<<<

There is no "back blast". Go to the video at the Metal Storm site (see post #23) and see for yourself. You may not want to throw rocks at this technology after you educate yourself as to what it is.

59 posted on 05/12/2002 1:25:22 PM PDT by HardStarboard
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To: RLK
>>...Rate of fire is not the problem. 6,000 rounds a minute is perfectly adaquate. The problem is ammunition supply....<<

Not only that, but what's the range of this weapon??

I saw an article on this weapon years ago and it was basically a small unit defense weapon. Unless they've adapeted it for larger caliber ammo, I don't see it as a replacement for artillery.

60 posted on 05/12/2002 1:27:43 PM PDT by FReepaholic
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