Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Poll - Do you support federal land use planning for local communities?
APA ^ | March 7, 2002 | American Planning Association (APA)

Posted on 03/10/2002 7:51:51 PM PST by StopGlobalWhining

Poll

Do you support a federal incentive to help states and communities to promote smart growth planning and solve problems related to growth and development?

About half way down the right side of their page.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: arizona; centralplanning; landgrab; propertyrights; smartgrowth; sprawl
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last
http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=SMARTGROWTH-03-07-02

Government-funded manual on land use draws fire

By MICHAEL COLLINS
Scripps Howard News Service
March 07, 2002

WASHINGTON - Supporters say it's a how-to manual for controlling urban sprawl through planned or "smart growth" development.

Critics say it's a handbook for radically altering land-use plans nationwide, stripping property owners of their rights and devastating small businesses.

A $2.5 million, government-funded guidebook that tells states how they can manage urban sprawl and other land-use problems has ignited a debate among business groups, property-rights advocates, environmentalists and members of Congress.

"It's anti-freedom. It's anti-choice. It's anti-culture,'' said Harry Alford, president and CEO of the National Black Chamber of Commerce.

Nonsense, countered Robert Manley, a Cincinnati attorney who helped draft the document through the American Planning Association.

"The guidebook contains nothing that is not already on the books, with a (proven) track record,'' Manley told the House Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution. The panel held a hearing about the manual on Thursday.

The subcommittee chairman, Rep. Steve Chabot, R-Ohio, said he has serious concerns that the guidebook promotes a "top-down" approach to land-use planning that would remove such matters from the hands of local authorities.

The "Growing Smart Legislative Guidebook,'' a seven-year project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, was drafted by the American Planning Association. The document contains recommendations for changing state and local land-use laws.

Opponents contend that property-rights groups and small-business organizations were deliberately excluded from the 18-member committee that developed the manual. Some are asking that Congress refuse to give money to states and local communities to carry out the recommendations.

The guidebook promotes "bad policy" that would make the United States "one big zoning law,'' Alford said.

Among the critics' primary concerns are recommendations that local governments be required to write land-use plans that follow state goals and regional plans - even if residents in those areas don't agree with such plans.

The guidebook also says local governments should be authorized to regulate the location, size, height and other features of commercial signs, including those found on small businesses.

Such signs generally are given greater constitutional protections than large commercial billboards, but business groups fear local communities would be permitted to ban them outright under the guidebook's recommendations.

That could change the character of minority communities such as San Francisco's Chinatown, where signs posted on businesses help give the area the ethnic identity that makes it such a big tourist draw, Alford said.

Manley said the guidebook does not promote a "top-down" approach to planning but merely offers a "menu" of options states can choose from.

Land-use plans need updating because planning tools in most states are based on model statutes drafted during the 1920s, when growth was largely confined to central cities, Manley said.

The rapid development of rural areas means the "one-size-fits-all" approach no longer works, he said. Local communities should be allowed to select the approach that best suits their needs, he said.


(Contact Michael Collins at CollinsM(at)shns.com or online at http://www.shns.com)

Federal land-use planning in the works?


1 posted on 03/10/2002 7:51:51 PM PST by StopGlobalWhining
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Do you support a federal incentive to help states and communities to promote smart growth planning and solve problems related to growth and development?

LOL ! ! !

Gee, that's not a leading question or anything. You want to see how well federal incentives to "help states and communities promote smart growth and solve problems" just visit your local inner city housing development.

2 posted on 03/10/2002 7:58:31 PM PST by Texas Eagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Signs? It's about signs?

The guidebook contains nothing that is not already on the books, with a (proven) track record

Take another look. The record is one of poor performance. The roads are clogged. The neighborhoods have no stores. Everyone has to commute to work. A dismal failure.

3 posted on 03/10/2002 8:07:39 PM PST by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
With five people we could turn this sucker. How about it?
4 posted on 03/10/2002 8:10:25 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor;George Frm Br00klyn Park;Ernest at the Beach
Need for ping lists here.
5 posted on 03/10/2002 8:14:00 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
The County of Santa Cruz, California was the first in the nation to adopt a local Agenda21.

The County of Santa Cruz, California now has the worst housing affordability index in the nation.

6 posted on 03/10/2002 8:15:56 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
It's beginning to move. Let's pounce on it.
7 posted on 03/10/2002 8:17:47 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Randal O'Toole has documented the misbegotten fruits of Smart Growth with his book, The Vanishing Automobile and Other Urban Myths. It is a study of Smart Growth in the City of Portland, OR.
8 posted on 03/10/2002 8:20:00 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Where is the HELL NO! category?
9 posted on 03/10/2002 8:24:51 PM PST by Let's Roll
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox
My book, Natural Process: That Environmental Laws May Serve the Laws of Nature, documents the disastrous ecological effects of "environmental" land use planning coordinated by the United Nations. It also proposes a free-market alternative.
10 posted on 03/10/2002 8:25:18 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
It's at 50-50. Let's go you guys!
11 posted on 03/10/2002 8:26:17 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox
Almost even. 49% yes -- 51% no

Don't we trust the government planning process? :)

12 posted on 03/10/2002 8:29:15 PM PST by RightWhale
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
He!! no!! We got a close this sucker with at least 65%, before they turn it off!
Call for friends and the cavalry!
13 posted on 03/10/2002 8:36:58 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale;CommiesOut;Sabertooth
Need fat ping lists.
14 posted on 03/10/2002 8:37:48 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Let's Roll
The HELL NO! is when it's at 65%
15 posted on 03/10/2002 8:48:56 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
Only 10 pings needed to move it 1%
16 posted on 03/10/2002 8:52:19 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Slyfox
Heh. "No" is currently at 64%.
17 posted on 03/10/2002 9:01:20 PM PST by altair
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
I say 1000 times NO!
18 posted on 03/10/2002 9:03:10 PM PST by cva66snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: altair
I hit my goal of 65%

"Lookee here, Todd. I didn't know we even had 365 members."

19 posted on 03/10/2002 9:06:05 PM PST by Slyfox
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
What is this pinging all about?
We're in a hand basket, comrade.
To many sheeples with cadillacs.
20 posted on 03/10/2002 9:28:20 PM PST by CommiesOut
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
NO. I support land use planning....by LOCAL communites, not the feds.
21 posted on 03/10/2002 9:29:41 PM PST by Dan from Michigan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
NO...67%! BTTT
22 posted on 03/10/2002 10:08:46 PM PST by brat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dan from Michigan
I support land use planning....by LOCAL communites, not the feds.

I used to, until I learned how corrupt and destructive it was. The power to manipulate the value of property is too much power. There is a better way to manage objectively the balance of risks, externalities, and intangibles in the marketplace. We will have to evolve our way into it as we learn how to use the principles involved.

23 posted on 03/10/2002 10:10:26 PM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle
LOL ! ! !

Gee, that's not a leading question or anything. You want to see how well federal incentives to "help states and communities promote smart growth and solve problems" just visit your local inner city housing development.

The Texas Eagle returns!

When I posted this last night it was 78%Yes to 22% No with 160 or so respondents. Thanks Freepers for turning this around, but I'm sure they will be e-mailing everyone they know to try to turn it back, so lets raise the margin of the No's.

24 posted on 03/11/2002 7:14:17 AM PST by StopGlobalWhining
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie; RightWhale; 1Old Pro; 68-69TonkinGulfYatchClub; a_federalist; abner; aculeus...
"Nonsense, countered Robert Manley, a Cincinnati attorney who helped draft the document through the American Planning Association."

The American Planning Association should always be shown in red type. It's an old Marxist organization, born about the same time as another, The League of (Socialist) Women Voters.

They have done more to erode freedom in this once great nation than any ten others you can name. - The idea that government should be in any way involved in land planning is absurd beyond comprehension.

"...The roads are clogged. The neighborhoods have no stores. Everyone has to commute to work. A dismal failure."

But a resounding success from the point of view of the global Socialist-fascist. - Drive the little guys out of business, and empower the global mega-corporazi.

25 posted on 03/11/2002 7:24:26 AM PST by editor-surveyor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Yes 33%
No 67%

Out of a total of 456 votes.

26 posted on 03/11/2002 7:30:42 AM PST by Alas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
local governments in our country do just as poor a job at managing land use as the federal governemnt does at anything that it does really badly. Land prices over the last 40 years for land that is suitable for residential use have skyrocketed at much faster than inflation. It is because land use is so controlled, it has become in fact scarce. So much land is completely off-limits, and the government tells you EXACTLY what you can use each little piece of land for. It is already a very highly regulated thing. But the worst part about local regulations is that in many cities they are used to keep lower income people out of the city. In many cities in america including some of our very largest land-area cities it is just plain against the law to build housing that 70 and even 80% of the population can afford. So, cities are being built that are entirely upper income people and it is that way because the law requires it to be that way.
27 posted on 03/11/2002 7:44:34 AM PST by Red Jones
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
Yes 32%

No 68%

Out of a total of 477 votes.

28 posted on 03/11/2002 7:54:54 AM PST by Victoria Delsoul
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
69% "No" to 31% "Yes" with 483 votes counted. BTTT
29 posted on 03/11/2002 8:01:06 AM PST by hattend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
488 votes, 69% NO. Freep on !
30 posted on 03/11/2002 8:04:42 AM PST by jimt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Like a Chicago Democrat...vote early and often.
31 posted on 03/11/2002 8:06:24 AM PST by Cuttnhorse
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
Most planning and zoning is an exellent device for transfering wealth from ordinary people to politicians and developers who pay off those politicians. I have no problem with developers who play by the rules but most planning and zoning boards are abritrary and abuseive in the enforcement of the rules.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

32 posted on 03/11/2002 8:08:11 AM PST by harpseal
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: jimt

Weekly Question: Results

Do you support a federal incentive to help states and communities to promote smart growth planning and solve problems related to growth and development?

Yes
29%
No
71%

Out of a total of 525 votes. Thanks for the ping editor-surveyor!

33 posted on 03/11/2002 8:24:51 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
Phoenix having Special Election tomorrow.

VOTE NO ON PROP. 100!!!

Smart Growth: Damn the Track Record, Full Speed Ahead
author Randal O'Toole

The smart-growth urban planning fad that is sweeping the nation's cities has taken root in Phoenix, where proposition 100 aims to increase urban densities and limit low-density development at the urban fringe. Supporters of smart growth claim these policies will reduce congestion and air pollution, increase affordable housing, and protect more urban open space.

The reality is exactly the opposite. Smart growth's prescriptions of high-density housing and rail transit greatly increase congestion. This dirties the air because cars pollute more in stop-and-go traffic.

Smart growth creates affordable housing if you want to live in an apartment, but it prices most families out of the American dream of owning their own home. And urban open spaces rapidly disappear under smart-growth demands for infill development.

All these trends are visible in Portland, Oregon, which has adopted the strongest smart-growth plan in the nation. Planners promised to save Portland from becoming like Los Angeles, the most congested, most polluted, and one of the least affordable urban areas in the country. So voters agreed to create Metro, the nation's strongest regional planning authority.

Metro planners drew an growth boundary around the region that included Portland and some two-dozen suburbs. Most land outside the boundary was so restrictively downzoned so that almost no one can build a house on his or her own land.

Inside the boundary, Metro projects an 80 percent increase in population. To accommodate those people, Metro ordered the cities and towns inside the boundary to upzone existing neighborhoods to much higher densities.

As a part of infill zoning, many cities rezoned neighborhoods of single-family homes for apartments, which are now popping up in people\rquote s backyards. Zoning rules are often so strict that if your house burns down you are required to replace it with an apartment.

Portland's light-rail lines carry less than half as many people as originally projected and do nothing to relieve congestion. The light-rail system cost as much per mile as an eight-lane freeway but carries fewer people than one-third of a freeway lane. Yet Metro wants to build another eighty-five miles of rail transit, while building almost no new roads.

To promote transit, Metro directed construction of dozens of high-density transit-oriented developments. Developers objected that there was little demand for high-density housing. So Metro and the region's cities provided tens of millions of dollars of subsidies to promote these developments, which now have the highest vacancy rates in the region.

These policies might be worthwhile if they reduced auto driving and congestion. But Metro predicts its plans will reduce the share of travel by automobile by just 4 percent, from 92 percent in 1990 to 88 percent in 204. Per capita driving will continue to increase. With 80 percent more people and few new roads, Metro adds that the amount of time people waste sitting in traffic will more than quadruple. Metro calls this congestion a "positive urban development" because it fears that without it few people will ride its expensive trolley cars.

Meanwhile, the shortage of land inside the growth boundary has caused land prices to increase by ten times since 1990. Before 1990, two out of three Portland-area families could afford a median-priced home. Today, less than one out of three can afford such a home.

Metro's plans are also destroying the urban open spaces they promised to protect. To meet Metro's density targets, cities rezoned backyards, vacant lots, urban farms, golf courses, and even a few city parks for high-density housing. When voters gave Metro funds to buy parks and open spaces, eighty-five percent of the land it purchased was outside the growth boundary, where it was inaccessible to most residents. Recently, Metro asked which U.S. urban area was closest to its plan for Portland: a high-density region with few roads and lots of rail transit. It turns out that the nation\rquote s highest density urban area also has the fewest miles of freeway per capita and is building one of the most expensive rail transit networks. Which urban area is that?

Believe it or not, it is Los Angeles, which turns out to be the epitome of smart growth. Metro concluded that Los Angeles "displays an investment pattern we desire to replicate" in Portland. Once again, smart growth produces exactly the opposite of what it promises.

If you want to replicate Los Angeles in Phoenix, then by all means follow Portland's smart-growth example. However, if your idea of livability is something other than congestion, pollution, unaffordable housing, and disappearing open space, then you should avoid smart growth like the plague.

Randal O'Toole (rot@ti.org) is the senior economist of the Thoreau Institute (http://www.ti.org)
and the author of The Vanishing Automobile and Other Urban Myths.


34 posted on 03/11/2002 8:30:48 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: marsh2; dixiechick2000; Helen; Mama_Bear; poet; Grampa Dave; doug from upland; WolfsView...
ping
35 posted on 03/11/2002 8:33:45 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: **Arizona
bump
36 posted on 03/11/2002 8:35:37 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
Friday, March 08, 2002

Local lawyer defends land-use handbook


Critics say property rights get short shrift

By Derrick DePledge
Enquirer Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON — A Cincinnati land-use lawyer Thursday defended a new national planning guidebook against critics who claim it fails to adequately recognize private-property rights.

        Robert Manley, a partner with Manley, Burke, Fischer and Lipton, told Congress that the “Growing Smart Legislative Guidebook” is a resource for state and local planners to consult when updating land-use plans.

        The American Planning Association drafted the guide over seven years with advisers from state and local governments and representatives from environmental and building interests. The federal government paid most of the $2.4 million cost to produce the document, which outlines planning models to discourage sprawl and protect farmland.

        The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development has accepted the guide as reference material, but it does not carry the weight of federal policy.

        “Smart growth is a set of public policies designed not to stifle growth but to promote development in ways that create communities of balance, consumer choice and lasting value,” Mr. Manley told the House Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on the Constitution.

        Critics, including several conservative lawmakers, believe property-rights advocates, small-business groups and others were left out of deliberations on the guide and that some state and local planners may misconstrue the guide's suggestions as federal policy.

        In November, several lawmakers, including House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, R-Texas, asked HUD Secretary Mel Martinez to oppose the guide. The lawmakers claimed the guide's provisions would “trample the rights of private-property owners by seizing their land without the just compensation that our Constitution requires.”

        Rep. Steve Chabot, R-Ohio, chairman of the subcommittee, said Thursday he also has reservations that the guide could evolve into rigid standards that undermine local control.

        “I have serious concerns about this approach,” he said.

        Harry Alford, president of the National Black Chamber of Commerce, said the guide's suggestions could lead state and local governments to adopt uniform planning in diverse minority and ethnic communities such as Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati or Harlem in New York.

        “It's anti-freedom. It's anti-choice. It's anti-culture,” he said.

       


37 posted on 03/11/2002 9:54:50 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
Now 75-25...
38 posted on 03/11/2002 10:04:21 AM PST by headsonpikes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
American Planning Association

GROWING SMARTSM
GROWING SMART is a service mark of the American Planning Association.

 

Project Sponsors

6 out of 10 are FEDERAL Agcys.

U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development

The Henry M. Jackson Foundation

The Annie E. Casey Foundation

Siemens Corporation

U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

Federal Highway Administration,
U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT)

Federal Transit Administration, DOT

Federal Emergency Management Agency

Rural Economic and Community Development Administration, U.S. Dept. of Agriculture

American Planning Association


39 posted on 03/11/2002 10:10:29 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
Voting and bumping.
40 posted on 03/11/2002 10:12:48 AM PST by Rustybyrd
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Texas Eagle
Is the Pope protestant?
41 posted on 03/11/2002 10:12:57 AM PST by poet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: StopGlobalWhining
...and growing!

Weekly Question: Results

Do you support a federal incentive to help states and communities to promote smart growth planning and solve problems related to growth and development?

Yes
24%
No
76%

Out of a total of 635 votes.

42 posted on 03/11/2002 10:14:48 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: madfly
Great Job. Thank you.

You do realize that the planners and zoners in your area will try to do this anyway and that the fight is only beginning...

Don't you?

Now if you want an honest system that accounts the value of intangible assets in an objective manner, a free-market alternative to Smart Growth... :-)

43 posted on 03/11/2002 10:48:49 AM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
No I didn't realize that. Actually I was left feeling the exact opposite.

It seems that the groups that were pushing this nationally sent people here to organize their respective rah rah grouops to affect legislation and then left. They don't have anything past 1999/2000 on their websites.

It leads me to believe that the came, they LIED, and they conquered... (Gov. Jane Dee Hull and all the city planning committees) 2 years ago and that it IS a done deal.

But I am still trying to get a fix on the timeline of this crap. I was uninformed and not paying attention when this battle had its beginnings here, and I now find that our EX-Gov. Babbit (and Arizona traitor) had a lot to do with it.

44 posted on 03/11/2002 11:13:46 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
BTTT
45 posted on 03/11/2002 11:16:36 AM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: madfly
I now find that our EX-Gov. Babbit (and Arizona traitor) had a lot to do with it.

Which is why he now works for Washington Mutual as a fixer.

Bad Planning Disease is a product of our megalomanaical university professorate. It was born in Santa Cruz County, California in the early '70s. It was a way for the Democrats to make money for the outrageously wealthy by stealing the from conservatives and profiting by controlling who gets to build. All it takes is the power to control or regulate land use. Such is environmental law.

B-b-b-babbit helped put the b-b-bureaucratic b-barriers in the way and now he gets to take a fat check for clearing them for those developers with the "political acumen" to support the right politicians, or should I say left?

It's all so confusing.

46 posted on 03/11/2002 11:33:36 AM PST by Carry_Okie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: madfly
Thanks for the ping.

Houston Says No to Zoning

47 posted on 03/11/2002 11:46:25 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie
It's all so confusing.

It sointenly is!!

But little by little I'm learning who's da good guys and who's da bad guys. I'm grateful for input from someone with your background.

48 posted on 03/11/2002 12:06:27 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Carry_Okie; madfly
"It's all so confusing confiscating. :-)"
49 posted on 03/11/2002 12:06:42 PM PST by editor-surveyor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: editor-surveyor
lol, yes!

and UNrelated.

50 posted on 03/11/2002 12:17:49 PM PST by madfly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-61 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson