Forgiving John Walker (Barf Alert)

Washington Post ^ | December 16, 2001 | Michael Kinsley

[SJackson]

All red-blooded Americans hate the Taliban. But what did red-blooded Americans think of the Taliban seven months ago? That's about when John Walker, 20-year-old American citizen, disappeared from sight until he surfaced earlier this month in a prisoner-of-war camp for Taliban fighters. Now many Americans want Walker tried, punished, executed . . . nothing is too terrible to say about, or contemplate doing to, this traitor who abandoned his country and joined up with that incarnation of evil, that rats' nest of anti-Americanism, that oppressor of women, that harborer of terrorists: the Taliban.

[SJackson]

But there is no evidence so far that he actually did the United States any harm....He played some unknown but small and ineffectual role in defending Afghanistan from an attack by the United States.

Small role, after all only one American killed. By Kinsley's logic an American serving in the SS would be just fine, as long as he fought on the Russian front. Or perhaps didn't rise too high in rank, just played a "small role".

[mcurb]

when's that parkinsons gonna kick in so this guy can't waste our time anymore?

[independentmind]

Walker obviously has been irresponsible in ways the young George W. never contemplated. He is obviously a fool and pretty obviously wished his own country harm. But there is no evidence so far that he actually did the United States any harm. As far as anyone calling for his head knows, he had nothing to do with Sept. 11 and no foreknowledge of it. He told Newsweek that he "supported" it in hindsight, which is repellent but not a crime. It is unclear whether he was actually a member of al Qaeda. He played some unknown but small and ineffectual role in defending Afghanistan from an attack by the United States. That attack was justified, but defending a "harborer" is doubly removed from being a terrorist. Walker seems to have played no active role in the prison camp uprising that killed CIA interrogator Mike Spann.

Kinsley is correct.

[Irene Adler]

The Parkinson's has already advanced a ways. FReepers have been speculating for some time after tv appearances on his part, why Kinsley's speech was so full of stammering and why he seemed not to blink for very long periods of time. He has also looked just plain awful,in general, not well at all, IMHO.

As regards his ability to crank out dumb columns, however, you are quite right; it seems undiminished so far.

[fhayek]

Of course we will forgive Walker. I mean look how we punished Jane Fonda. She got to sit in the owners box at the World Series.

[SJackson]

I disagree. I can accept the notion that until 9/11 his situation could be viewed as the same as an American fighting for the British prior to WWII, or in Spain.

But that changed within a few days post 9/11. The Taliban was soon America's enemy, and he was obligated to leave their service. While this might have cost him his life in the early days, he wouldn't have been the only American to die. Once things were moving on the ground, many troops under the Taliban defected to the NA. Walker wasn't among them, and seems to have resisted to the very end in the company of Taliban troops fighting both our ally, the NA, and American troops on the groung. His actions were treasonous.

[YaYa123]

What Americans thought 7 months ago is a bogus argument!

Walker's own father disclosed that last April, Johnny Taliban expressed support of the USS Cole being attacked, an attack where 17 American sailors were killed, and double that number wounded.

But beyond that damning information, Johnny Taliban wasn't captured till late November. He surely knew all about Sept 11. When he was interrogated by Michael Spann, he was given the opportunity to reveal himself as an American, and offer any helpful information he could about his Taliban comrades. He refused. He might have even known that within minutes, Michael Spann's life was going to be in jeopardy. No cooperation, no warning for a fellow American.

What Americans knew 7 months ago is irrelevant to the overwhelming evidence against John Walker.

[G.Mason]

Why would anyone here read anything by Michael Kinsley, with the exception of his obituary?

[schaketo]

Nurse Ratchet! Get in here quick! He's been spitting out his medication again! Straight jacket ... STAT!

[RasterMaster]

Traitors should be properly and promptly hung. Joining the enemy is the same as renouncing citizenship, and he should not be guaranteed the same rights as everyone else.

[Benrand]

Michael Isikoff this morning said Walker was training with AL Qaeda and was more involved than Kinsley suggests.

After the left beat Republicans up with "Timothy McVeigh" they now see they can be targeted for smears with this idiots back history.

[HENRYADAMS]

This guy Walker may be worth millions in book deals, talk show circuit, maybe a movie, endorsements public office.

We will know after his first TV interview.

[hflynn]

Kinsley is correct.

See reply #12. Kinsley is not correct. Isokoff also said that Walker was present at meetings with and knew Bin Laden personally. Walker is in this up to his eyeballs. Don't be surprised if more revelations about Walker, most of which are coming from his own mouth, put him jail for a very long time.

[DonQ]

But what did red-blooded Americans think of the Taliban seven months ago? That's about when John Walker, 20-year-old American citizen, disappeared from sight...

Seven months ago was about the time that the Bush Administration gave the Taliban millions of dollars, ostensibly to discourage the heroin traffic.

[alnick]

I read an article this morning that says that Walker has admitted to being a member of Al Qaeda and has trained at Al Qaeda terror camps. Walker is more than just some mixed up kid who doesn't realize what he stepped in.

[Cacique]

Yeah I'll forgive him alright. That's AFTER we execute him.

[wingnuts'nbolts]

Poor little Johnny, just about the same age as all our boys fighting over there, who somehow, in the messed up elistist world of no black and white, only grey areas, found thier way to service for thier Country in Elite Combat Groups now deployed in Afgan territory. Seeing as, in Kinsley's Super Strata world, no judgement of anyone is allowed no matter how henious the crime, because that would be ,to quote from the DNC playbood, "a rush to judgement" which no good socialist liberal would ever want to make, for fear of being ejected from the, oh so superior, PC crowd.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Sorry, didn't read the article. I have managed to go a whole YEAR without reading a single thing by this effeminate little dweeb- and I see no reason to break that streak now...

[Polybius]

All red-blooded Americans hate the Taliban. But what did red-blooded Americans think of the Taliban seven months ago?

Reports have stated that John Walker has proudly pointed out to his captors that he was not just Taliban but that he was Al Qaeda.

Seven months ago, Al Qaeda was known to be behind the U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa and behind the bombing of the USS Cole. John Walker knew exactly what linds of people he was bearing arms for.

[hflynn]

Seven months ago was about the time that the Bush Administration gave the Taliban millions of dollars, ostensibly to discourage the heroin traffic.

And what was the policy for the 8 years of the Clinton Administration? ROTFLMAO!!!!!

[alnick]

That's been debunked. Aid was given to Afghanistan, not th Taliban, and most of it was not cash, but rather food and medical supplies, which was to be distributed over time through the United Nations. What you're reciting is the spin put on this by a rabid leftist columnist, who has since retracted his statements about this matter.

[NetValue]

Justice applies two ways: relief for innocence and punishment for evil behavior. Let there be only justice for Walker.

[SJackson]

Don't feel bad. You didn't miss much.

[BrooklynGOP]

But there is no evidence so far that he actually did the United States any harm....

Uh, we have evidence of his intent.

[aculeus]

But there is no evidence so far that he actually did the United States any harm....He played some unknown but small and ineffectual role in defending Afghanistan from an attack by the United States.

Afghanistan wasn't attacked by the USA. We attacked the Taliban regime and Al Queda.

Kinsley has the leftwing habit of lying.

[SJackson]

Uh, we have evidence of his intent.

Far more than intent, he served the Taliban. Of our troops on the ground in Afghanistan, most will not fire their weapons. This doesn't diminish their contribution. Same thing for Walker. He took up arms against us.

[pepsionice]

My forgiveness of John Walker is simple. We turn him loose and he never steps foot in the US again period. He turned his back on us...took up weapons against us...fought us...would have killed any pilot who parachuted down (and we know he would have)...saw no reason to just walk away...ended up being in the mostly Arab battalion which means he was awful serious about fighting...and we cannot be sure of what he did in the fortress (leg wound?). Let the guy walk out of the camp and never allow him entry into the US again. Lets see how mom and dad handle that.

[NativeNewYorker]

Kinsley is now on shaky ground both philosophically and physically.

[independentmind]

Isokoff also said that Walker was present at meetings with and knew Bin Laden personally. Walker is in this up to his eyeballs. Don't be surprised if more revelations about Walker, most of which are coming from his own mouth, put him jail for a very long time.

I have not seen Isikoff say this although I have read various accounts that Walker had some contact with OBL. Until I have more definitive proof, I am willing to supsend judgment about Walker. I realize that is difficult for most FReepers, but I don't usually gloat over the prospect of someone's death unless I am completely convinced of his guilt.

And you are one of the few that have suggested jail time for Walker. Most people want to see him hung.

[southernnorthcarolina]

[hflynn]

Here is a link to the Isikoff article. Isikoff in Newsweek Exclusive

[LadyDoc]

--Should we even have a bit of understanding about how a troubled teenager might be "young and irresponsible" enough to get himself in this fix?

He isn't a teenager.

Every time I hear a white liberal cry over Walker, I wonder why they don't do the same to defend the Crips and Bloods, many of whom are younger than Walker

[SJackson]

Every time I hear a white liberal cry over Walker, I wonder why they don't do the same to defend the Crips and Bloods, many of whom are younger than Walker

Many do. At least they're consistant.

[Cicero]

All red-blooded Americans hate the Taliban.

That's where I stop reading. What on earth would Michael Kinsley know about red-blooded Americans?

[SJackson]

I have not seen Isikoff say this although I have read various accounts that Walker had some contact with OBL. Until I have more definitive proof, I am willing to supsend judgment about Walker. I realize that is difficult for most FReepers, but I don't usually gloat over the prospect of someone's death unless I am completely convinced of his guilt.
And you are one of the few that have suggested jail time for Walker. Most people want to see him hung.

Contact with OBL isn't an element of his guilt, neither is membership in Al Queida. He was captured bearing arms against America and her allies. Are you perhaps concerned with the FR advocated penalty, "hanging" him (won't happen, even if he deserves it-if he plays it right, he's destined to become a cause celebre), rather than his guilt, thus negating his crime? While I may not agree with them, Kinsley's arguements would be valid in terms of determining his punishment.

[Right_in_Virginia]

"...Should we have a bit of understanding....about how a troubled teenager might be young and irresponsible enough to get himself into this fix?"

No! There are too many 18, 19, and 20 year old American heroes fighting evil incarnate to make excuses for Mr. Walker.

Let's, however, do the right thing and give Mr. Walker a blindfold....but, nothing more.

[FITZ]

Does John Walker deserve any better because he happens to be a citizen of the United States?

If he is a citizen, he is a traitor. If he gave up his citizenship to join terrorists against Americans, then he should never be allowed in this country again if he is left alive. I wish the Northern Alliance would take care of him for us.

[mbb bill]

Leahy seems to have forgiven the traitor!!!

[stimulate]

How do you know that Kinsley is correct that Johnny Walker had nothing to do with killing the CIA agent? Someone killed him, and Walker took part in violent action to escape the prison compound;even got shot.If the "prison" break-out had succeded, Johnny Walker would have escaped.

[livius]

Oh, please, Michael Kinsley. Surely, you jest...

[Sueann]

I don't have to forgive him - he didn't do anything to me!

[duckln]

What Americans knew 7 months ago is irrelevant to the overwhelming evidence against John Walker

Kinsley believes we are really stupid to accept the position that average Americans unaware of the Taliban, equates to an American who studied and followed that basic criminal fanatic cult.

Makes my blood boil that W.F. Buckley's 'firing line' provided Kinsley so much airtime on PBS. And Bill Gates hiring him shows the trouble this country really is in!

Guys like Kinsley and Alan Combs don't belong in a serious discussion.

[independentmind]

Contact with OBL isn't an element of his guilt, neither is membership in Al Queida. He was captured bearing arms against America and her allies.

I don't consider Walker's membership in the Taliban and possession of a weapon sufficient proof of treason without a better understanding of how he came to be where he was. If, however, it is proven that Walker participated in OBL's terrorist training as discussed here, then I will revise my opinion. If Walker knowingly engaged in training for attacks against the U.S., he should be tried for treason, and face every penalty possible under law.

[opinionator]

Forgiving Michael Kinsley

I will write a nice article and paste it here as soon as I can find some proof that Michael Kinsley isn't a traitor and doesn't want to kill you.

[Jmouse007]

"Try him for treason and every other charge he qualifies to be charged with."

I heartily agree, it will send a strong signal to any other "American" who thinks that it is OK to take up arms and fights against America and it's allies. Otherwise it smacks of injustice (rich kid terrorists who have homosexual lawyers for fathers walk, poor kid terrorists like the guy who blew up the federal building in OK die), racism, (white guy walks while the "poor black" Arab terrorists die or do heavy prison time) and a return to status quo O.J. justice.

Mr. Walker renounced his citizenship the moment he VOLUNTARILY joined the Taliban and Alquida and went to "camp in order to learn how to POISON, SHOOT, and BLOW UP Americans. He is a TRATOR who was involved in the riot in which a Federal agent was BITTEN and beaten to death. According to broadcasts appearing on CNN and elsewhere he heartily approves of the Taliban and their stated goals for the destruction of America along with the events of Sept. 11. If there is to be justice, he must be brought up on charges of TREASON and he must, after a fair trial suffer the consequences of his actions. He doesn't need a spanking, he doesn't need a reprimand, he needs the death penalty or if the government doesn't have the guts to do this, life in prison with NO POSSIBILITY OF EVER GETTING RELEASED. If they can't handle this then turn him over to the Northern Alliance. They know how to deal with foreign terrorists perpetrating crimes within their country.

Mr. Bush must be strong and the federal government needs to do the right thing. Otherwise it is "business as usual" and the terrorists WIN!

Dr. S

[laredo44]

Walker seems to have played no active role in the prison camp uprising that killed CIA interrogator Mike Spann.

Kinsley is correct.

How would Kinsley or you know that? Are you privey to transcripts of military questioning?

[Marylander]

Who doubts that before 9/11 Walker was being groomed to return to the US as a perfect sleeper agent ready to commit mass murder in the name of Osama?

[laredo44]

Seven months ago, Al Qaeda was known to be behind the U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa and behind the bombing of the USS Cole.

Precisely. Kinsley's argument is that Americans weren't aware of the name of the organization. How bogus! If you asked Americans seven months ago if they'd be sympathetic to someone who'd fight with the group that sneak attacked our embassies and war ship, my guess is they'd feel pretty much as they do now.

Kinsley's an idiot. I know I'm being obvious, but it makes me feel better anyway.

[lawdude]

"when's that parkinsons gonna kick in so this guy can't waste our time anymore?"

Crude, thoughtless, mean-spirited and totally unnecessary comment. I despise this jerk but I don't wish terminal disease on anyone!......FU