Posted on 07/17/2023 4:21:02 AM PDT by McGruff
that’s why they’re lumped in wi the eu...
Ukraine supplies 40% of the worlds wheat vs Netherlands-dairy and veggies. Not really the same.
Netherlands- By sector, the biggest exports are flowers (€9.5 billion/$11.4 billion), meat (€8.7 billion/$10.5 billion), dairy and eggs (€8.3 billion/$10 billion), vegetables (€7.1 billion/$8.6 billion) and fruit (€7 billion/$8.4 billion).
Forty percent of the World Food Program's wheat supplies come from Ukraine. According to Ukraine's ministry for agriculture, due to the Russian war on that country, approximately 22 million tons of grain are stranded in Ukraine waiting export.
“Mebe the Nazi’s and NATO should refrain from blowing up Russia bridges...”
Maybe the Russians shouldn’t build bridges in someone else’s country where they will be blown up.
Ukraine supplies 40% of the worlds wheat, which is a basic survival staple in many countries.
“Exactly. It would guarantee the U.S. wouldn’t blow it up again.”
Stupidly bald assertion, but let’s examine the rest of your argument without getting into who did blow up Russia’s imperialist bridge to a peninsula to which they have no contiguous land access. The only way that Ukraine can get grain out is by Putin’s leave? Ever hear of Odessa? Or the Baltic sea? Or railroads through Poland, Moldova, Serbia, Slovakia and Romania? All the grain deal was meant to guarantee was that Russia would stop messing with Ukraine shipping on the Black Sea, so Africa and the Middle East would catch a break. So now they won’t stop messing with the shipping? They will risk a confrontation with Turkey, a NATO member, should they happen to attack one of their ports? Oh, well. There are all those other aforementioned routs. Look on a map.
It wouldn’t have to supply that percentage if Africa joined civilized society.
Europe and the US don’t owe Africa a damned thing.
Apparently it depends on where one sources one's information.
"In 2021, Ukraine exported $5.87B in Wheat, making it the 5th largest exporter of Wheat in the world.
Source: https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/wheat/reporter/ukr
1 Russia 37,267,014 tonsSource: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wheat_exports
2 United States 26,131,626 tons
3 Canada 26,110,509 tons
4 France 19,792,597 tons
5 Ukraine 18,055,673 tons
Below are the 15 countries that exported the highest dollar value worth of wheat during 2022.Source: https://www.worldstopexports.com/wheat-exports-country/
Australia: US$10.2 billion (15.4% of total wheat exports)
United States: $8.52 billion (12.9%)
Canada: $7.9 billion (12%)
France: $7.4 billion (11.2%)
Russia: $6.8 billion (10.3%)
Argentina: $3.1 billion (4.7%)
Ukraine: $2.7 billion (4%)
OEC shows the mst recent percentage as 9.5%
Source: https://oec.world/en/profile/hs/wheat
Beef2Live shows Ukraine's export of wheat as 8.91%
Source: https://beef2live.com/story-top-20-largest-wheat-exporters-world-0-206491
Index Mundi shoes Ukraine in 7th place.
1 Russian Federation 46,500
2 EU-27 38,500
3 Canada 27,500
4 Australia 21,000
5 United States 19,731
6 Argentina 13,500
7 Ukraine 10,500
Source: https://www.indexmundi.com/agriculture/?commodity=wheat&graph=exports
If you post "Ukraine supplies 40% of the worlds wheat," it would be interesting to learn your source. Thanks in advance.
Not my assertion - Russia's.
If the West wants to play the grain card again, Russia would be wise to force that grain across the replacement bridge that the West pays to rebuild.
That's not a stupidly bald assertion. It's the same one used for any chokepoint such as the Panama Canal, the Suez Canal, and fuel pipelines. You want to ship your merchandise; you're going to use our rail, trucks, pipeline, canal, or bridge.
John Kerry and his cronies have been cashing in on millions decades by forcing natural gas shipments by tanker to Massachusetts instead of by pipeline. They stop any push to have a pipeline built. They get all the usual Leftists out front: https://ma.mothersoutfront.org/what_we_need_to_know_about_the_pipeline_fight
While the percentage cited was incorrect and probably fictional, per my post above this, African nations have the opportunity to feed themselves, but politics and political corruption has kept them hungry. Freedom to farm is among the freedoms under attack as we watched the Rutte government in Netherlands pull their lunacy, and of course the ZANU-PF in once-Rhodesia and now-Zimbabwe managed to take a "breadbasket" and empty it of productivity. All in the name of "government."
Mea Culpa- my error. You are right. Ukraine supplies 10% of the worlds wheat and up to 16% of the world’s corn exports
Misread article that states Ukraine supplies 40% of wheat to the UN World Food Program.
Forty percent of the World Food Program’s wheat supplies come from Ukraine.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/forty-percent-world-food-programs-wheat-supplies-come-ukraine
Pretty much all round numbers like that are nonsense.
Africa has extremely fertile land, especially where the sub Saharan blacks reside.
The poster I originally posted to is stubborn beyond reason.
I’m an idiot for wasting my time replying. :)
I would be skeptical of a think-tank [ Wilson Center ] which include Anthony Blinken on its roster, but that's a matter of parties and such....
The whole issue of grains is most interesting, and Ukraine plays a part to be sure. As to corn:
From "List of countries by maize exports" - WikiUnited States: US$19.1 billion (37.2% of total corn exports)
Argentina: $9.1 billion (17.6%)
Ukraine: $5.9 billion (11.4%)
Brazil: $4.2 billion (8.1%)
Romania: $1.9 billion (3.8%)
France: $1.9 billion (3.8%)
Hungary: $1 billion (2%)
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maize_exports
Beef2Live has Ukraine at 12.28%
Source: https://beef2live.com/story-ranking-countries-export-corn-88-206186
But Argentina and Ukraine combined are still the small game compared to US agriculture, much of it multinational at this point.
Given the dominance by the US in corn exports, one comes to see why 1) the global warming game included corn-based methanol being mixed with gasoline for ours and other markets, and 2) multinationals are angling to control Ukraine's farm productivity.. But another non-Ukrainian side to this is that Africa's farmers and therefore agricultural growth will NEVER compete with the "food aid" in which corn and the like "compete" with local farmers who can never undercut "free."
While "aid" and especially "food aid" sounds like such a lovely concept, a good portion of our "37.2% of total [ worldwide ] corn exports", much paid for by US taxpayers to American farmers for corn going to the third world is suppressing third world countries from "rising." So it seems to me, as much is not in the headlines, and the overall picture is such a Gordian knot.
And speaking of local (small) farmers, lunch today features tomato sandwiches, tomatoes grown locally, picked yesterday, and bread baked by my wife. And last night, freshly picked and shuicked corn from a little farm nearby.
We're not so much in the grasp of Monsanto and Cargill and Dupont who are all players in the Ukraine "game" according to source I've come across while simply looking about corn. We hope to remain that way. Free.
Happy Monday.
“Not my assertion - Russia’s.”
I didn’t say it was your assertion, I said it was a stupid, bald assertion. It doesn’t matter who makes the assertion. It remains stupid and bald to state that the US blew up a bridge that Ukraine is perfectly capable of blowing itself. Show me the evidence that it was the US.
“If the West wants to play the grain card again, Russia would be wise to force that grain across the replacement bridge that the West pays to rebuild.”
Russia would be utterly stupid to attempt to force that grain across any putative replacement bridge for the following reasons already stated.
1. The grain can and is being shipped via Odessa Port, which Russia does not control, and passes through Turkey, which is part of NATO. He can continue attacking grain shipments bound for Africa and the Middle East, but that runs the risk of a full-blown war with NATO under Article V.
2. There are rail lines and highways between Ukraine and Poland, Bulgaria, Moldova, Slovakia, Hungary, and, yes, Bialarussia (presently harboring Yevgeny Prigozhin from Putin’s wrath). And via the Black Sea Ukrainian shipping can also reach Georgia.
There is no way that Putin can “force the grain” across any bridge to Crimea, even he wanted to, without going to war with some or all of those countries, and probably also NATO. But he doesn’t and won’t, because he does not have a death wish. He’s not crazy, just farting higher than his own a@@-hole, because he believed the lies his sycophants told him about how powerful his military is, when in fact it was rusting away due to theft and neglect, and the fantasies in his own head about how easy it would be to conquer Ukraine. 500 days and counting.
Because they couldn't blow it up, just like they couldn't blow up the German-Russian pipeline.
As for Kiev shipping grain, the story posted is that Russia said no and such no would infer that Russia can choose when and what they'd say yes to.
As far as risking a full-blown war with NATO under Article V, Ukraine is not a NATO member.
Now that we are the Soviet Union, this will happen to us.
“If Ukraine was capable of blowing up the bridge, why did they wait until July of 2023?”
Dumb argument.
Because that would screw up Russian logistics to Crimea, thereby making it harder to defend Crimea during the ongoing counter-offensive. You don’t blow up a bridge and then give the enemy a chance to rebuild it. You do it immediately before taking action for which blowing up the bridge makes sense.
If Ukraine was incapable of blowing up the bridge, how did they do it before to the rail lane of the very same bridge?
“Because they couldn’t blow it up, just like they couldn’t blow up the German-Russian pipeline.”
There is some strong evidence that it was they who did blow up the pipeline.
“As for Kiev shipping grain, the story posted is that Russia said no and such no would infer that Russia can choose when and what they’d say yes to.”
Such would infer that you attribute more power to Russia than they actually have. The only way that they can prevent shipments by road or rail via any of the aforementioned countries is by destroying roads and rail lines. To turn back your question on you, if they could do that, why haven’t they ‘til now?
“As far as risking a full-blown war with NATO under Article V, Ukraine is not a NATO member.”
So if, during the course of preventing Ukraine, a non-NATO member, from shipping grain through, for example, Poland, a NATO member, they blow something up on the wrong side of the border, and maybe kill a few Poles while they’re at it, which does happen and has happened during war-time, Poland will just take it on the chin. In every instance? Riiight.
It undoubtedly is happening to the US. Remember the “glorious triumph” in Afghanistan? Caused by excessive reliance on the Afghan government, and stupid planning, and more than a little possibility of a side deal with China, the Taliban and Iran, who now have lots of American ordnance.
As for "blowing something up on the wrong side of the border", you can play the "what ifs" to the nth degree. If my aunt had a package, she'd be my uncle.
The Russians said no more grain shipments from Ukraine. No one, other than you, is questioning whether Russia can enforce that because Russia was already doing that before they relented.
Dumb argument? It’s the second time they attacked the bridge. They couldn’t succeed the first time. The first failed attack defeats the argument that they were waiting until immediately before they were going to take action.
You remain incapable of comprehending context. The first time, they succeeded in taking out exactly what they needed to, the rail lane, which is where the supplies come in that they’re using to stage assaults. Also, attacking the bridge at that time demonstrated that Crimea is not safe from the war. “Failed”? Hardly.
As for “blowing something up on the wrong side of the border”, you can play the “what ifs” to the nth degree. If my aunt had a package, she’d be my uncle.
If your aunt were Putin, she’d be using her air power to attack rails, bridges and roads. But his considerable air force stays safely behind his lines. They send missiles and drones to attack civilian areas out of spite, but his MIGs stay well out of it. He does not have the capacity or the will to attack shipping, except in the Black Sea.
“The Russians said no more grain shipments from Ukraine. No one, other than you, is questioning whether Russia can enforce that because Russia was already doing that before they relented.”
No they weren’t. Big talk two years into a war that it’s illegal in Russia to even call a war.
The agreement only covered the Black Sea, because that’s the only place where Russia is in a position to cause mischief. The Black Sea is a much more convenient way to ship grain than road, rail and air. Cheaper, simpler. But that does not mean it can’t be done and isn’t being done.
No, the context is that Ukraine cannot win on the battlefield so their cohorts in the U.S. are resorting to terrorism, attacking a civilian target, just like the pipeline.
As for the grain shipments, at the going prices the destination countries can afford to pay, it has to go by sea and it will only go if Russia says so.
Russia might do so when Uncle Sugar coughs up the dough for a replacement bridge. If Uncle Sugar can give Zelensky billions of dollars of taxpayers' money, they can spare a bridge or two. Just ask Mike Pence. Ukraine is his concern, not bridges in the U.S.
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