Posted on 10/22/2022 6:49:53 PM PDT by AndyJackson
Ukraine does have a lot of corruption, no doubt, but it is out of this world crazy to suggest that is why you would support Russia - corruption that is many times off the charts.
2008 - so it wasn’t granted. And 14 years later that’s why Putin invaded?
You do know that the Ukrainian military is basically an arm of NATO?
Quite. This whole Nato thing is a pretext.
Putin’s people are having a hippie style love-in here.
Huh. And in February 2022 Ukraine had no material aid from Nato other than some antitank missiles that Donald Trump had supplied them. After years of objections from the Obama administration, and overriding the US State Department. Some “arm of Nato”. Some “deep state”.
As for that aid, are you objecting to one of the acts of Donald Trump, and supporting the policies of Barak Obama?
Russia created its own Nato problem, BY INVADING.
Oh really? For how long as that been?
It’s disgusting. These people are exact replicas of 60’s leftists.
This.
“Most fascinating thing about the Ukraine war is the sheer number of top strategic thinkers who warned for years that it was coming if we continued down the same path.”
It is easy to be a Monday morning quarterback when the defense isn’t on the field and the offense still throws an incomplete hail Mary. There was never any doubt that at some time the war would break out. But we need to understand what happened to get to this point.
The separation of Ukraine from Russian control was not done by foreign countries. It was acted on by the Ukraine. In 1991, at the time of the fall of the Soviet regime in Russia, citizens of Ukraine expressed overwhelming support for independence. In the referendum, 31,891,742 registered voters (or 84.18% of the electorate) took part, and among them 28,804,071 (or 92.3%) voted “Yes”. I certainly didn’t see anything that western nations were holding guns to the citizens’ heads. This led to the Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation was an agreement between Ukraine and Russia, signed in 1997, which fixed the principle of strategic partnership, the recognition of the inviolability of existing borders, and respect for territorial integrity and mutual commitment not to use its territory to harm the security of each other. The treaty prevents Ukraine and Russia from invading one another’s country respectively, and declaring war.
Since Russia violated this Treaty in 2014 by sending “little green men” to Crimea (Ukrainian territory), Ukraine announced its intention not to renew the treaty in September 2018. By doing so the treaty did expire on 31 March 2019. Russia–Ukraine relations have deteriorated since the 2014 Russian annexation of Crimea and Russian support for separatist forces in the war in Ukraine’s Donbass region. In response, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty.
So if supporting the Ukraine with weapons and training by the US is not considered an act of war, then the Russians supporting the separatists in Donbass can’t be considered wither. Goose/gander
Russia wants their pieces of their country back and all the resources in them. The US would do the same thing with states and England has done it a number of times all over the world. So why is a number of “experts” now telling the world this was a possibility but claiming premonition now? Must be that 15 minutes of fame the egomaniacs feed off of. Especially since Russia has been complaining about the situation for many years.
wy69
It is Russia that needed to adjust its expectations, not the rest of the world that should adjust to unreasonable Russian expectations.
You people talk like absolute dupes.
Constant excuses for Russia which is one of the most backward corrupt countries on earth.
And we’re supposed to cede the entire world and all causes of liberty and freedom, because “We’re all gonna die!”
No country can survive if it is afraid to stand up to aggressors.
These arguments are straight out of the kook left from the 60’s and 70’s. They were constantly saying that we were encircling the Soviet Union, and we were going to cause a nuclear war and all die.
And you make these ridiculous cowardly arguments as Russia is getting a royal ass kicking. I guess you think Russia is too big to fail. It isn’t. Russia has been good at failing for centuries.
Thats not frivolous, that is your own, extremely stupid talking point. Abandon it.
The US leadership impeached Trump on whatever pretext they could find, which turned out to be about allegedly using his position for partisan purposes, to wit attempting to strongarm the Ukrainians into providing evidence vs Biden.
NOT providing arms to Ukraine had nothing to do with the case.
Trump made that happen against Dem and “deep state” opposition.
https://fortune.com/2017/12/23/trump-approves-javelin-missiles-ukraine/
The Putin crowd here is still hung up on their boy’s macho imagery; From years ago.
“It is Russia that needed to adjust its expectations”
Why should they, when countries representing 80% of the world’s population REFUSE to impose sanctions?
Sounds to me that the Globalists need to ‘adjust their expectations’, since they’re quite isolated at this point.
Because this war they chose is going to turn them from a great power into a second-rate power that happens to have nukes.
Russia's best hope for long-term success and prosperity was to grow closer to Europe economically. Peter the Great recognized that 300 years ago. Instead, they're going to end up dependent on China and India.
Of course, if you think this war will result in them being better off than they were before, then we obviously disagree.
As a reader I appreciate this sort of info so that I can make my own decisions, and your post is appreciated. I did not realize that "a long list of prominent and experienced foreign policy participant, students and observers" from FreeRepublic would be so quick to disagree with real experts. The constant flack you are receiving must be because you are over some target. Again, thanks for the great post.
“...a second-rate power that happens to have nukes.”
Where did I hear that line before? Oh yes, when the Suicide Sanctions were first imposed. Seems to me that the West, or certainly Europe, has become a ‘second rate (economic) power’ with a couple of countries that happen to have a few nukes.
the replies on that thread are scary. zero critical thinking involved. word-thinking, fairy-tale narratives, but almost no actual discussion of the topic of the thread.
It is quite well illustrated that sufficiently organized spammers can pretty much end intelligent discussion on anything. We see it here every day.
They are obviously Putin lovers. Noone should listen to Putin lovers.
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