The Evidence is Cut in Stone: A Compelling Argument for Lost High Technology in Ancient Egypt

Ancient Origens ^ | August 2017 | Brien Forrester

[wildbill]

Most people know of the great construction achievements of the dynastic Egyptians such as the pyramids and temples of the Giza Plateau area as well as the Sphinx. Many books and videos show depictions of vast work forces hewing blocks of stone in the hot desert sun and carefully setting them into place. However, some of these amazing works could simply not have been made by these people during the time frame that we call dynastic Egypt.

Up until the 7th century BC there was very little iron present in Egypt, as this material only became commonly used once the Assyrians invaded at that time; in fact, the ancient Egyptians regarded iron as an impure metal associated with Seth, the spirit of evil who according to Egyptian tradition governed the central deserts of Africa. A few examples of meteoric iron have been found which predate the Assyrians, but this consists largely of small ornamental beads.

[Bob Ireland]

***One of the problems people have is that these drill holes and cuts have never been dated***

A good point, one that has occurred to me. Also, geopolymer molding does not explain the existence of the holes... one does not 'mold' a hole without a (removable) form of some kind inserted... and perfectly round and perfectly spaced?

And what sort of mold did they use to form the 'H' blocks with such perfectly smooth sides and perfectly square rabbets? Surely not wood - of which there was little available on the alto-plano - hand-hewn.

[Spirochete]

which egyptian museum did you visit? the stuff in most museums can be hand-me-down objects of relatively little value (significance and beauty). my impression is that the egypt government and modern culture frowns upon objects kept outside of egypt (sometimes acquired by quasi-legal means or worse).

Houston Museum of Natural Science. They once had a pitiful handful of Egyptian relics and the mummy of Ankh-Hap.

Their newer dedicated exhibit hall is much better. The shabby items I referred to were ordinary everyday items: pottery, combs, ointment jars, chairs, shabti dolls, senet boards, sandals and such. I did see some masterfully done statues and pectoral necklaces.

The impression of "shabbiness" was magnified by being adjacent to an exhibit of Late Renaissance - Baroque firearms.

[SteveH]

Think of it as stuff that could easily be dug up by tomb robbers, sold to victorian era tourists in cairo as keepsakes, put in suitcases, smuggled out of egypt by steamer, and then eventually sold or donated to local museums before trading in such objects was deemed illegal. mummies, particularly ptolemaic era mummies of less significant historical value, were sold in bulk to traveling circuses for curiosity draws.

I have never been in the Houston museum so I could be wrong.

[Spirochete]

mummies, particularly ptolemaic era mummies of less significant historical value, were sold in bulk to traveling circuses for curiosity draws.

This article on Ankh-Hap certainly gives weight to that.

[SunkenCiv]

There’s no reason whatsoever a hole could not have been included in the design. Using molds to form those Pumapunku structures was feasible, obviously leaving a hole would be just as simple.

Here’s something I was looking for, my memory isn’t what it used to be.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/cutting.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/cutting05.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/images/cuttingslide05.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/cutting07.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/images/cuttingslide07_2.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/cutting08.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/images/cuttingslide08_1.jpg
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/lostempires/obelisk/images/cuttingslide08_2.jpg

[SunkenCiv]

It wasn’t necessary to have iron tools or diamond saws.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3798099/posts?page=145#145

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3798099/posts?page=137#137

[Bob Ireland]

***leaving a hole would be just as simple***

How do you do that when pouring a soft rock slurry? Small perfectly round (extruded?) metallic tubing perfectly spaced and held in place by ??? ...and then there is forming the groove in which the holes begin. You are possibly a stone mason; I am just a skeptic.

***Using molds to form those Pumapunku structures was feasible***

Again, enlighten this poor initiate how to build a mold for those 'H' blocks with virtually glass smooth surfaces; could you do that with hand hewn wood? What would I make the molds from?

My point is not to argue but to raise legitimate questions - legitimate to my untrained mind. You don't have to respond. I think Davidovits makes a compelling case for his 'geopolymer', but he still raises questions - which perhaps he could answer. It is beyond my ken. Or perhaps some of the engineering was performed much later.

[SteveH]

interesting. i was not aware of this. however, it remains to be demonstrated that these individual techniques can be applied to create an actual obelisk with bas relief, actual petri core, or actual sacarphagus demonstrating the accuracy and details achieved by the ancient egyptians, unless someone am not aware of in modern times has actually done it...

[SunkenCiv]

Metallic tubing? No need for it. Wood molds, a round log for the holes, finished surface via hand polishing.

[SunkenCiv]

One of the favorites of Hatshepsut was the obelisk. That form was around before her, but the Egyptians really went to town when she was on the throne. Her name is on those, which gives the time of origin. Others have different dates and have different names on 'em. At least one of Hatshepsut's is in Rome -- the ancient Romans really liked obelisks, and in an engineering feat of their own, moved a number of them to Rome by sea without cutting them and restacking the pieces.

[SunkenCiv]

(I hope I've got these right, I can't view them on this machine)

As a young man, Denys Stocks was obsessed with the Egyptians. For the past 20 years, this ancient-tools specialist has been recreating tools the Egyptians might have used. He believes Egyptians were able to cut and carve granite by adding a dash of one of Egypt's most common materials: sand.

"We're going to put sand inside the groove and we're going to put the saw on top of the sand," Stocks says. "Then we're going to let the sand do the cutting."

It does. The weight of the copper saw rubs the sand crystals, which are as hard as granite, against the stone. A groove soon appears in the granite. It's clear that this technique works well and could have been used by the ancient Egyptians.

Cutting Granite with Sand | PBS Online | NOVA Online | WGBH

Besides cutting clean surfaces on their granite, the Egyptians also drilled cylindrical holes into their stones. A hole eight inches in diameter was found drilled in a granite block at the Temple of Karnak.

"Even with modern tools -- stone chisels and diamond wheels -- we would have a tough time doing such fine work in granite," says Hopkins.

Stocks was brought along to test his theories about how the cores were drilled. Inspired by a bow drill seen in an ancient Egyptian wall painting, Stocks designs a home-made bow drill. He wraps rope around a copper pipe that the Egyptians could have forged. Hopkins and Lehner then pull back and forth on the bow, which is weighted from above. The pipe spins in place, rubbing the sand, which etches a circle into the stone. With the assistance of the sand, the turning copper pipe succeeds in cutting a hole into the granite slab.

Cutting Granite with Sand | PBS Online | NOVA Online | WGBH

With the aid of a bow drill and sand, the pipe has cut a circular hole into the stone. But how can the drillers get the central core out?

Stocks wedges two chisels into the circular groove. The core breaks off at its base. Stocks reaches in and plucks it out, leaving a hole behind not unlike the ones once cut by the Egyptians.

Cutting Granite with Sand | PBS Online | NOVA Online | WGBH

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks wildbill, a second time. This has been the best topic in quite a while, long discussions, and bound to be of interest. Hope to get more topics posted next week. Another slow week -- here are the other GGG topics introduced since the previous Digest ping:

• 1499: Edward, Earl of Warwick, the last Plantagenet claimant
• Prominent Historians Criticize The NY Times' 1619 Project As 'Biased,' 'Anti-Historica
• Discovery of queen's 16th Century manuscript paints Elizabeth I in new light [Tacitus]
• German WWI wreck Scharnhorst discovered off Falklands
• 'Habsburg Jaw' seen in European kings 'was caused by inbreeding', researchers find
• Hate Broccoli? Your DNA May Be to Blame
• Russian scientists present ancient puppy found in permafrostl'