House of Commons is debating Rebel bill to extend Article 50. Parlimentlive.tv link included

The Telepraph ^ | 3 September 2019 • 6:24pm | Tony Diver

[Stentor]

Borris is correct to call an election if they dare to do so.

Since the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011, Parliament would have to agree to the calling of a general election.

[9YearLurker]

But will Corbyn be able to both get his bill and block a new election?

[Hieronymus]

I’d wait for Naturalman to weigh in, but I think that Johnson will ask the Queen to dissolve parliament and call for elections, and while the Queen would be within her rights to ask Corbyn to form a government, given the Brexit vote, the Queen will be more likely to grant Johnson’s request.

[naturalman1975]

We're getting into some very interesting constitutional areas here.

The Queen could grant Johnson an election without the need for the two-thirds vote under the Fixed Term Parliament Act - but that would be the most dramatic intervention by a Monarch since... 1910... possibly since 1831.

The Queen would have to be convinced that the political situation was such that only her intervention could prevent something approaching a national emergency, a major constitutional crisis.

A government that had lost the confidence of the House... where there was no clear alternative that could be guaranteed to command confidence... yes, that could do it, I think.

But this hasn't been tested. There's no precedent to guide that I can see.

[Hieronymus]

Thanks—that helps.

While kicking things around here, a colleague and I were wondering about how the House of Lords may factor in—does whatever is being worked on to tie Johnson’s hands need to go through the Lords etc. after clearing Commons? If so, dissolution of the House should of itself, I imagine, cause the obstacles to cease.

The Canadian Senate is very weak, but it still needs to be factored in in terms of the timing of things when a government is near its end here.

Does the Fixed Term Parliament Act allow the Commons to dissolve itself?

[butlerweave]

Corbyn is a disaster

[naturalman1975]

While kicking things around here, a colleague and I were wondering about how the House of Lords may factor in—does whatever is being worked on to tie Johnson’s hands need to go through the Lords etc. after clearing Commons? If so, dissolution of the House should of itself, I imagine, cause the obstacles to cease.

Yes, it would need to go through the House of Lords as well, but the way that House is currently composed (largely thanks to Tony Blair) it is likely to pass very quickly and easily through it.

Does the Fixed Term Parliament Act allow the Commons to dissolve itself?

Yes, but it takes a two-thirds majority.

[Hieronymus]

Does that mean that legislation to repeal whatever goes through in the next few days might not head through Lords quickly, but would eventually go through?

The Canadian Senate delays but for practical purposes that is the most that it does.

[naturalman1975]

Does that mean that legislation to repeal whatever goes through in the next few days might not head through Lords quickly, but would eventually go through?

I would expect - although I could be wrong - for it to go through the Lords very quickly.

The Canadian Senate delays but for practical purposes that is the most that it does.

Technically all the Lords can do nowadays is delay (for up to a year in certain cases) - the only legislation the Lords can actually reject is a law by which the Commons tries to extend its term beyond five years. The idea is that it can force the Commons to reconsider legislation by threat of delay, but it cannot actually block any bill except one designed to extent the Commons term beyond five years (it may allow this as well - it did so (with the agreement of the King and the Loyal Opposition as well) during both World Wars to avoid a general election while the UK was fighting for survival.

But in this case, I can't even see a delay happening - Labor and the Liberal Democrats combined substantially outnumber the Conservatives in the House of Lords.

[Hieronymus]

It sounds as though the pending legislation would go through slowly—

What I am worried about is if this happens and then The Lords act slowly on legislation to repeal this legislation.

[naturalman1975]

There’s something called the Salisbury Convention - the House of Lords does not block legislation that a government expressly campaigned on as part of its election manifesto.

It isn’t absolutely binding, but if Johnson calls an election over this and wins, it is very likely the Lords would pass any legislation he presented of relevance under the Convention.

[9YearLurker]

It is still IMO highly unlikely the House will coalesce around Corbyn—or anyone else—to a sufficient degree to lead to that.

[9YearLurker]

Which is why he will not be PM.