Posted on 12/29/2017 7:57:49 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki
Lockheed Martin has an interesting graphic displayed on their website showing the comparative max loud-outs for stealth combat configuration and for non-stealth combat configuration—the latter of which the company refers to as "beast mode." In the "beast mode" configuration, the graphic depicts an air-to-air optimized load-out that includes a whopping 14 AIM-120 AMRAAMs and a pair of AIM-9X Sidewinder missiles—16 missiles in all. But does such a plentiful missile carrying configuration actually exist?
No, it doesn't.
Not only has this configuration not been tested but as far as we can tell it isn't even slated for development anytime in the foreseeable future. The hardware to make it happen doesn't exist either. It is likely that it's one theoretical configuration that has been studied in the past that could possibly be included in future block developments at some time if the will, and especially the money, is present for doing so.
LOCKHEED MARTIN
Usually these maximum loud-out configurations don't matter much as they rarely if ever see operational use, but the F-35's ability to carry a lot of beyond visual range air-to-air missiles does matter. Beyond being able to carry large quantities of missiles for traditional combat air patrols, the idea that a tactical aircraft could operate as something of an arsenal ship for other tactical aircraft is becoming a very attractive capability set. Such a concept could potentially increase the magazine depth and effectiveness of stealthy fighter aircraft operating forward in the counter-air role. Boeing has touted their 2040C F-15 configuration that would be capable of this role and it could prove especially useful as long-range air-to-air missiles become a hot commodity once again. You can read more about this concept here and here.
BOEING
2040C configuration for the F-15 Eagle capable of carrying 16 AIM-120s (possibly up to 20).
Having a stealthy flight of F-35s call up missiles on demand from non-stealthy "beast mode" configured F-35s operating many miles behind them could be a huge force multiplier and would help overcome the F-35's wanting internal air-to-air missile carriage capability, which is limited to four missiles at this time. Eventually this may be increased to six missiles, but exactly when this would happen, and what it will cost remains unclear. Lockheed's notional 14 AMRAAM loud-out likely includes this modification.
F-35 JPO
In the end the graphic is disingenuous, but at the same time it also is somewhat exciting and hints at the possibility of some pretty awesome cooperative F-35 tactics in the future—that is if these notional capabilities get funded. What's so puzzling is why exactly the F-35 team chose to embellish the aircraft's current capabilities just in the "beast mode" air-to-air portion of the graphic. They could have as easily showed other various future possible weapons configurations, including internal carriage of smaller hit-to-kill air-to-air missiles in stealth mode, or far more exotic and diverse air-to-ground loud-outs than those available today or in the foreseeable future.
USAF
F-35A's current weapons menu.
One potential answer to this question is that maybe they are trying and make it seam like the type can compete with non-stealthy advanced 4th generation fighters in the counter-air missile carrying capability realm—once again, an area that is becoming particularly attractive, especially to the Pentagon's air arms. And once again, this is also a capabilities set that Boeing, Lockheed's biggest fighter aircraft competitor, increasingly touts for its aircraft.
Little things like this is why trust in the F-35 program is so low. The Joint Project Office and the aircraft's prime manufacturer have a long history of making over simplified, misleading, absurdly positive, and not fully accurate statements and claims about the aircraft's capabilities, timeline, and cost. This only caused more trouble for the already troubled program. Instead, being open about the program, its issues, mistakes that were made, and what to expect in the future would have served the aircraft and its goals far better. If anything else this should be a lesson learned for future weapons development programs.
F-35 JPO
F-35A/C weapons stations capacities.
In this case, its puzzling why Lockheed wouldn't just say this is something that may be possible in the future instead of acting like it is a current capability. What it will take to realize this exciting capability is far more interesting and important than just putting it out there as a puzzling non-fact for people to decipher for themselves.
That being said, now that the USAF, USN, and USMC will end up with many hundreds of these fighters let's make the very best out of them, and making a notional F-35 air-to-air "arsenal ship" configuration a reality should be bumped up towards the top of the F-35's to do list.
huh?
There was a proposal of using B-1’s as missile trucks carrying up to 100 AMRAAM’s
It’s a little bit hush-hush but it is also capable of Ludicrous Speed!
Boeing is a sore loser - get over it!!
Then it isn’t “stealthy” anymore and just becomes another mediocre performance fighter.
Ugh. It is Load Out and they keep repeating loud out...
Even the Air Force gets catfished...
If you take away the 35s dubious at best stealth, it has zero chance against any variant of F-15. That’s just a simple factoid.
Basically if a 35 missile truck in non-stealth “beast mode” gets caught by a Sukhoi, it’s toast. If the same happens to a 15, the Sukhoi isn’t going home that day.
Given fhe terrible grammar, syntax and spelling, it looks like Russian propaganda to me.
Haha god I love the B1. What an amazing under appreciated bomber.
These air-to-air ideas are because we bought too few F-22s. So the idea that keeps going around the 5 sided wind tunnel is to have the F-22 be the shooters and other aircraft be the trucks for additional missiles.
The air-to-ground load out is part of my concept of accelerated warfare. The target list in a conventional war is surprisingly finite. Multiple independently targeted weapons can have a dramatic effect on the length of the war.
The pilots disagree - but you are welcome to your opinion.
Boeing usually produces better quality FUD than this.
Except carrier pilots who risk death taking off with the non-STOL versions due to instabilities inherent in the design.
Here are some of the non-classified Pentagon problem areas as of 2015. How many have been fixed, resolved, or eliminated?
The Automatic Logistics Information System (ALIS)
Numerous components of the aircraft are unreliable;
Helmet display issues;
Flight control problems;
Lightning protection;
F-35B fuel tank redesign;
Software delays;
Ejecting might kill you;
The failure of concurrency.
Here's the 2015 Aviation Week bug report
A report from 2016 The F-35: Still Failing to Impress
Points mentioned:
Officials Continue Putting Off Key Tests Needed to Prove Combat Capability;
Flight Controls Impact Maneuverability - The F-35 has had significant trouble with uncommanded wing drop;
Serious Safety Concerns Remain - pilots weighing less than 136 pounds killed on ejection; no ejection test on pilots weighing between 137-255lb (including helmet);
Significant Logistics Software Problems - Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS) can’t tell the difference between good parts and broken ones when it “incorrectly authorizes older/inappropriate replacement parts.” Field reports say that 80 percent of ALIS-reported problems turn out to be false. This places a massive extra burden on the F-35’s already over-worked maintenance force.
Deferring Cyber Security Testing Leaves F-35 Vulnerable: the F-35 program management cancelled tests of a combat-critical computer system because they thought the tests might break the computer system.
Maintenance Problems Keep F-35s Grounded: Evaluators are actually prevented from accessing the database from government networks because Lockheed Martin’s database does not meet U.S. Cyber Command cybersecurity standards.
Simulation Facility Failure Threatens Testing Program: Without a validated simulation facility the F-35 program would have to conduct “a significant number of additional open-air flights during IOT&E, in addition to those previously planned” in order to complete testing on time. Since the plane already can’t fly often enough for the current developmental testing schedule, expecting to be able to stuff in the necessary additional flights is unreasonable.
Impending Air Force IOC: Aircraft Would Be Combat-Ready in Name Only
Concurrency Tax: Extra Costs for Few Aircraft
Block Buy Purchase Discussions Are Wildly Premature
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And we haven't even touched on the fact that this POS can carry only 4 BVR 120 missiles internally which are far shorter in range that their Russian counterparts, and 2 guided bombs. Let alone its gun problems and extremely limited ammo supply. But Hey! Once in the air it is easy to control: just don't fire the gun, rely on the parts in the plane, eject, or take off from a carrier and all is well. Except you may have been hacked and everything you see in the HUD is false ...
I’ve seen the list. 2015? Really reaching back - Boeing needs to get over it.
The current reviews are really outstanding.
Here are some more recent ones:
The F-35 Program Continues to Stumble, October 3, 2017 (This caught my eye - None of the three F-35 models in the current fleet can use cannons in combat.)
What Went Wrong with the F-35, Lockheed Martin's Joint Strike Fighter? June 14 2017
The F-35 Amazingly Has Even More Problems Than We Thought Jan 1 2017
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/update-norwegian-pilot-counters-leaked-f-35-dogfi-422552/
And you an always trust Israel to get the best - nuf said
Which is exactly what the F-35 was designed to do. It is supposed to have 'first day of war' stealth, then become a follow-on high payload bomb truck.
It is not, and was never intended, to be an air superiority aircraft.
And I don't see the big deal developing a pylon that can hold three AMRAAMs. One triple pylon on each of four external stores stations, plus two in the bays, plus two AOM-9Xs on the outer stores stations is what the air to air "beast mode" requires.
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