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Little Sisters of the Poor Go Back to Court as State AGs Sue to Force Contraceptive Mandate
Townhall.com ^ | November 21, 2017 | Lauretta Brown

Posted on 11/21/2017 7:31:21 PM PST by Kaslin

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To: Kaslin
Millions of women could be denied needed contraceptive care

Thanks, Captain Hyperbole.

It's worth noting that nothing is DENIED, some employers simply have the option not to pay for BC. Don't like it? Find another employer. Or, pay for it yourself.

21 posted on 11/22/2017 4:52:53 AM PST by wbill
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To: Kaslin

That’s so convoluted, my head spins trying to follow their supposed constitutional argument. Insane.


22 posted on 11/22/2017 5:39:46 AM PST by Eleutheria5 (“If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.)
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To: savagesusie
There is no “right” to sodomize others, or to kill babies

Half right. An adult has the natural right to perform any act that violates the rights of no other person; abortion violates the rights of the unborn person, but consensual adult sodomy (which, btw, also occurs between men and women) violates nobody's rights, and hence is a right.

23 posted on 11/22/2017 7:10:23 AM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

I donate to the Little Sisters of the Poor facility in Pittsburgh PA’s Northside area. They do great work with that retirement home for the indigent. It’s a disgrace what my state is doing to them with this persecution. In fact this news compels me to send a donation for Christmas.


24 posted on 11/22/2017 7:20:26 AM PST by Ciexyz (I'm conservative & traditionalist, a Nationalist and a patriot.)
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To: NobleFree

WRONG!!!

The Marxists have tried to normalize sodomy in Christian nations WAY before “Shades of Gray” or “Deep Throat” was created by the godless and perverted to destroy Western Civilization. Way before the perverts in the Weimar Republic. Probably with the Godwins of the French Revolution where they wanted to destroy marriage and destroy the Natural Family (all biological connections (pure Marxism) so children can be owned and shaped by the State like Plato’s Republic). Sodomizing others is dehumanizing —always. It is a dysfunctional, meaningless, nihilistic, irrational act and desacralizes the sex act, which is necessary for Life.

Dehumanization and stripping dignity from other humans by using body parts in irrational—actually insane and disease-causing ways is always evil and reducing them to animal. It is degrading always and is about domination and lust—never “love’ and sacrifice. True sex acts include Natural Duties which always go along with Natural Rights. Using human beings as a “means to an end” is what sodomy and slavery does and both are unconstitutional in a system like ours based on Rule of Law (Higher Laws/God’s Laws).

Sodomy should always be a felony, like it was for hundreds of years when we had a true Justice System, which can ONLY promote “public virtue” as Montesquieu stated. Sodomizing others has NOTHING virtuous about it. Never. Natural Rights—are only God-Given Rights-—as stated in Lockean philosophy. There are NO Natural Rights to EVER sodomize anyone. In fact, in God’s Laws it is revealed to be an abomination—the most evil act possible.

Like Slavery——Natural Rights from God can’t be given away or taken away although our history has had EVIL “Laws’-—oxymoron. Only evil laws would promote sodomizing others to little children which will definitely destroy a Christian worldview which is the purpose of Marxism—to collapse civil society because there is no Freedom without Virtue (inner control/character).

Vice creates slaves for the State only-—addicts and slaves who can’t control inner base urges.

PS. If all the Lemmings were running off the cliff and you were with the group, would you follow? All behaviors are learned and habituated. As even the pagan Aristotle stated, it is essential in early childhood to teach and habituate virtue in early childhood. Our schools destroy virtue formation now—and normalize vice-—like sodomy, baby-killing, and theft (welfare/slavery).

Cicero stated Wisdom is the ability to discern Good and Evil. We have thrown Good out the window when we state that sodomy is a virtue. As Dostoevsky stated, without God, everything is permissible (There is no good and evil). Even the Ancient Greeks knew it was nihilism and they had to ban the acts so their men would procreate. They were put into barracks and sodomized since 7 so preferred other men and boys to women.....learned behavior exactly like that of the Afghani harem boys.


25 posted on 11/22/2017 11:42:57 AM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: savagesusie
An adult has the natural right to perform any act that violates the rights of no other person; abortion violates the rights of the unborn person, but consensual adult sodomy (which, btw, also occurs between men and women) violates nobody's rights, and hence is a right.

WRONG!!!

The Marxists have tried to normalize sodomy

Straw man - I didn't and don't support "normalizing" sodomy. Not everything that is legal is thereby "normalized."

Dehumanization and stripping dignity from other humans by using body parts in irrational—actually insane and disease-causing ways is always evil and reducing them to animal.

Smoking uses one's lungs in an irrational and disease-causing way ... should it be banned?

Only evil laws would promote sodomizing others

Another straw man - I didn't and don't "promote" sodomy nor support its promotion. Not everything that is legal is thereby "promoted."

to little children

Yet another straw man - I explicitly confined my statement to adults.

Vice creates slaves for the State only-—addicts and slaves who can’t control inner base urges.

So you maintain it's impossible to be addicted/enslaved to intercourse? Can you point to any evidence for such a claim?

they had to ban the acts so their men would procreate. They were put into barracks and sodomized since 7 so preferred other men and boys to women.....learned behavior exactly like that of the Afghani harem boys.

As I mentioned, sodomy also occurs between men and women.

The grave problem with putting the government in charge of punishing all evil is that 0bama and the Rats held that for nuns to refuse to pay for abortifacient drugs was evil. Our Founding Fathers believed in limited government exactly because only under limited government is it possible for Good to flourish.

26 posted on 11/22/2017 2:44:26 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

Smoking is banned in certain places where it infringes on others—and rightly so. No, you can do whatever you want to your own body (as long as there is no welfare system where I have to pay for YOUR stupidity and ignorance or vice.) You can commit suicide and nothing the state can do about it. No Laws-—for evil, disturbed people will do evil—it is why our Just Laws ONLY promote public virtue, because vice costs us money and promotion of vice to children will alway normalize it—like the photos of males passionately kissing each other on every yahoo page. Children embed images easily. Resources are costly that need to handle vice—jails, hospitals, courts, etc and easily will destroy civil society. Virtue is essential for freedom and civil society (Founders/Aristotle/Cicero).

BUT—you can never do something to another person which strips them of their dignity-—which is slavery or sodomizing or raping others. All evil acts remove dignity and are degrading (reduces to animal). So, should masturating by yourself in a doctors office be “OK”—there is no toxifying smoke and if you are careful with your discharge, there is no health hazard like there always is with sodomy of others.

There is no “Natural Rights” ever to sodomize (dehumanize) and our Constitution ONLY protects our NATURAL RIGHTS as defined by Locke and Natural Law Theory-—not by some irrational judge who defies truth and Reality and Life. Just laws are always “Right Reason according to Natural Law.”

Until the homosexualization of our culture, women would not have allowed themselves to be sodomized. It is filthy and unnatural. You must have grown up in the Deep Throat era where the Harem boy Afganis (ethics) of the pederasts in Hollywood were being given to little children along with literature like “Daddy’s Roommate” and Tango makes Three, so that evil, disgusting nihilistic behaviors, which cause icky proctology problems were normalized in the children.

I have raised children.....you can normalize anything in a young child—even making little boys “think” they are little girls or that Vice is Virtue or removing heads is fun. That is why Aristotle stated that all virtue is learned and habituated in childhood. (That is why the schools put in mandatory indoctrination systems with a Kindergarten. Got to remove children from the Natural family so free will and individualism is destroyed for group-”think”.) BF Skinner techniques work every time so you can actually make a child “think” that sodomy is a virtue and “snow is black”. even though it never can be because it is against Natural Law/science/God’s Laws.


27 posted on 11/22/2017 3:25:20 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: NobleFree

Vice is always addiction and it is outside control of a person. That is why it is so evil. You are a slave (as Aristotle stated) for you have no free will when you are addicted. Outside things control your emotions and you have no ability to stop the action. Vice is ALWAYS an addiction and habituated and slavery.

Virtue is a habit (you could not say a good habit is a vice, although being habituated is like having an addiction. True belief in God creates a type of “addiction” although there are better words for it.

Virtue is inner control of base urges You have free will and able to use Reason instead of act on emotions only. Virtue is needed for civil societies and the Natural Family-—and with Natural Rights (like to marry one woman) there always are Natural Duties—like raining ones own biological children. You really should study Natural Law Theory so you understand Locke and our Constitution and “Justice” system. Justice is the Queen of Virtue and as such all Just Law promotes public virtue.(as Montesquieu so well explained and our Founders).

As Aquinas stated, “When Just Law ceases to be Just (virtuous), it ceases to be Law.” That is exactly what Justice John Marshalll stated and he said ALL “unjust” law is “null and void” and MUST be disobeyed.

But now we have a Vice System-—it promotes vices of sodomy, (irrational use of the word “marriage’), perversion, baby-killing, drugging, mutilation, and theft (welfare which promotes slavery only).

So, a wife has a Natural Duty to have sex with her husband-—but not to allow him to sodomize her. A husband has the Natural Duty to treat his wife with dignity and respect also. With Rights come Duties always. It is evil to rape your wife or demean her sexual organs or yours in any way.
Now-—can you treat her like a whore-—absolutely-—you answer to God not to me, but if your wife is abused she can report you to a true justice system. Lust can be good inside a marriage, but true love is always self-sacrifice and never uses others in degrading, irrational ways.

Just read part of your response again and it seems you need to have basic understanding of some fundamental Truths of Western Civilization—what gave us the Age of Reason, Modern Science and the US Constitution and our Justice System: Natural Law Theory which is only possible with a Christian worldview. The godless Marxists/Darwinians threw out Natural Law Theory and it is why we are collapsing and Europe it too—except Poland. They are known as Postmodernists, Marxists, communists, Progressives, Humanists, materialists—or whatever—but there is no logic or reason because there are no laws of nature or nature’s God. No Designer, no Design and then no mathematics or science is possible.


28 posted on 11/22/2017 4:37:02 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: Eleutheria5

Cal is the MOST convoluted state and anything anti-trump is ok in Sacramento


29 posted on 11/22/2017 5:39:46 PM PST by morphing libertarian (A proud member of the Ruthie Bader Afternoon Nap Club)
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To: savagesusie
So, a wife has a Natural Duty to have sex with her husband-—but not to allow him to sodomize her.

Still another of your straw men - I neither stated nor implied a duty to engage in sodomy.

It is evil to rape your wife

And another straw man - I never stated nor implied the contrary.

Just read part of your response again and it seems you need to have basic understanding of some fundamental Truths of Western Civilization—what gave us the Age of Reason, Modern Science and the US Constitution and our Justice System: Natural Law Theory which is only possible with a Christian worldview.

I explicitly appealed to natural law. You can either explain how my response was faulty, or just expect others to take your word for it - your call.

The grave problem with putting the government in charge of punishing all evil is that 0bama and the Rats held that for nuns to refuse to pay for abortifacient drugs was evil. Our Founding Fathers believed in limited government exactly because only under limited government is it possible for Good to flourish.

I missed your response to this point.

no health hazard like there always is with sodomy of others.

Oral sodomy has no greater hazard to health than intercourse.

I have raised children.....

As have I.

you can normalize anything in a young child

Which in no way implies that everything that is legal becomes normalized, in children or anyone else.

30 posted on 11/22/2017 6:35:54 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: savagesusie
You really should study Natural Law Theory so you understand Locke

The following support my position rather than yours:

"MEN being, as has been said, by nature, all free, equal, and independent, no one can be put out of this estate, and subjected to the political power of another, without his own consent. The only way whereby any one divests himself of his natural liberty, and puts on the bonds of civil society, is by agreeing with other men to join and unite into a community for their comfortable, safe, and peaceable living one amongst another, in a secure enjoyment of their properties, and a greater security against any, that are not of it." - John Locke, Second Treatise of Government

"The Lockean society which has a govern­ment, therefore, is not one which is value­ free or without virtue as held by the revi­sionists. Rather, Lockean society assumes values and is distinguished from others only in the locus of its values and virtue, which are placed in individuals within society as opposed to the state. This distinction be­tween society as the repository of virtue and the state as only a means to regulate coer­cion, indeed, is what defines Lockean soci­ety. Hence, in this type of regime, the gov­ernment is given the very limited, though important, function of only defining and regulating coercion. Otherwise, it is to allow virtue to develop spontaneously in society as the result of free decisions of individuals, since society is the higher repository of virtue, honor, esteem, reverence, etc. which are the ends of life." - http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2017/02/john-locke-harmony-liberty-virtue-donald-devine.html

31 posted on 11/22/2017 7:26:07 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

Herpes is a major problem and health cost and comes from oral so-called “sex”. It was rare in society until after Deep Throat and the “sexual revolution, when STDs flourished as did killing babies and fatherless children who ended up filling up our prisons.

I thought I was clear that Just Law does NOT punish ALL EVIL. It is impossible. Suicide laws can’t really exist although for companies, and insurance—they can make regulations which won’t honor evil acts which would be constitutional.

The fact is—that when the majority of people are all evil—then there is NO civil society. It will collapse or be a tyranny or socialist (slave) culture or in chaos. Civli societies (Freedom) NEED virtuous people—period. Vice creates slaves and collapses cultures.

LIMITED GOVERNMENT IS ONLY POSSIBLE WITH A VIRTUOUS PEOPLE—(STATED BY ALL THE FOUNDERS and Socrates and Cicero).

You are missing my point. Limited government is only possible with virtuous people. Vice creates the need of government systems for control like courts, jails, judges, detention centers, police, homeless shelters, hospitals, etc. Vice overloads the tax payers all the time and makes the taxpayers into their slaves-—just like a socialist system does which is EVIL and unconstitutional.

A Justice System doesn’t need to OUTLAW ALL EVIL-—it Just has to PROMOTE PUBLIC VIRTUE IN ALL LAWS-—never vice like welfare, (theft) and sodomy and baby-killing which normalizes those acts in the next generation. It took cultures thousands of years of ONLY Christianity to eliminate and end “slavery” as a “good” because it is against Natural Law and God’s Laws-—both are linked. Natural Law-—Laws of Nature and nature’s God-—and Individual Natural Rights only come from God and predate all governments.

I think I am repeating myself too much and have exhausted the subject. If you don’t understand the basis of “Justice” (the Queen of Virtue) and the basic NEED to have “JUST LAW” in a Justice System-—go back and read Cicero. although he was not a Christian, so his worldview was not quite perfect because he still believed slavery was “good” and sodomy of boys and men was also fine. But that is paganism (godlessness) for you. Fact is Natural Law Theory was not really developed thoroughly and perfectly until St. Thomas Aquinas’s “Summa”. Locke didn’t really improve on the Theory of Natural Law—since subsidiarity was always in the Catholic Canon long before Locke.


32 posted on 11/22/2017 7:52:56 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: savagesusie
Herpes is a major problem and health cost and comes from oral so-called “sex”.

And also from intercourse - as do syphilis and gonorrhea.

Vice creates the need of government systems for control like courts, jails, judges, detention centers, police

SOME vices may create such a need - but how does sodomy do so?

A Justice System doesn’t need to OUTLAW ALL EVIL-—it Just has to PROMOTE PUBLIC VIRTUE IN ALL LAWS-—never vice like welfare, (theft) and sodomy

To make legal is not to "promote."

33 posted on 11/22/2017 8:00:40 PM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

Yes. Exactly. Without virtue, there is no respect for the individual nor any respect for Natural Rights or private property. Without virtue in people, you can never trust your neighbors or participate in voluntary agreements. If people are evil—they will kill you or steal your property, etc. etc. if there are no Just Laws and even if there are Just Laws-—there will still be evil people. Founders understood the Nature of Man (Natural Law Theory).

Government is Evil (All the Founders knew this) because government is force. That is why is has to be limited—contained—and why we had separation of powers (which don’t exist any more in our Post Constitutional government).

Common Law was only a Christian concept along with individualism and free will which tailored the Natural Law of Sophocles in Antigone with Aristotle’s logic and the Nichomachean Virtues and Cicero’s Rule of Law—Universal Truths (Objective Truth). It was only a matter of a thousand years before Christian Virtue superseded Aristotle’s virtue system. Kant’s Duty system competed with Aquinas and Locke’s “moral” system which as GK Chesterton stated, was the beginning of the end of Reason-—to the Postmodernism (total dehumanization and irrationality) of Marx and Darwin.

Individiualism (Christianity) v. Collectivism/chaos The USA was the only government to base their justice system on individual natural rights only from God. All other cultures destroy the individual for the collective (group)-—and now we do too. There are Marxist “group” “rights” which don’t exist in our Constitution. Justice is an individual only concept and never applies to groups. “Social Justice”-—no such thing-—Justice needs no modifier and by putting one in front of it, destroys the meaning.


34 posted on 11/22/2017 8:27:53 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: NobleFree

Proctologists can explain what happens to homosexual males. Look it up, plus diseases. Plus the promotion of the lifestyle to children—warps their perceptions of self and Natural Law.

People of same sex unions do not fulfill their Natural Duties and if they “adopt” children, they warp them because children need to embed male/female relationship to be normal and have a role model to understand self, and deal with all people. By allowing homosexuals to raise children, you deny the child of their Natural Right to be born into a loving Natural family—how God designed the minds to form in a Natural setting—not an artificially warped setting so the child would be warped for life and not able to have common sense and understand Reality (proper cues of male and female (Laws of Nature). (It is not that complicated but I really have to go now.)

All vices create chaos in society and destroys virtue formation in children—whether creating fatherless children which creates misfits and felons and angry, hateful people or by destroying other’s private property or killing them—leaving kids fatherless is the biggest evil of all—and severely damages the formation of children and collapses cultures.

ALL VICE COSTS SOCIETY—some vice more than others. Addicts (what cost is there-—HUGE!!!!! alcoholics, hedonism—HUGE (divorce courts/damaged children) HUGE and I don’t include the severe psychological damage on children which creates felons and suicide or whatever. SLEEP ON IT!!!!


35 posted on 11/22/2017 8:52:35 PM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: morphing libertarian

It would be hard to think of a more convoluted argument. There must be a profound leak of stupid gas nearby.


36 posted on 11/22/2017 10:29:18 PM PST by Eleutheria5 (“If you are not prepared to use force to defend civilization, then be prepared to accept barbarism.)
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To: savagesusie
Plus the promotion of the lifestyle to children [...] By allowing homosexuals to raise children

I'm not sure you're arguing with here, but I know it's not me - because I've never stated nor implied support for what you're addressing.

37 posted on 11/23/2017 7:05:33 AM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: savagesusie
Government is Evil (All the Founders knew this) because government is force. That is why is has to be limited—contained

Which is exactly why we don't need nor want a Sodomy Police.

38 posted on 11/23/2017 7:09:28 AM PST by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
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To: NobleFree

I know....but I understand child psychology the most. When ANY vice is made legal ( Natural Law Theory)-—like the irrational, vile acts of sodomy—in “homosexual marriage”—an oxymoron by the way and destruction of the word and meaning of “marriage” and have adults teaching lies and vice to children, then you “ok” it. It will become “normal” and acceptable to little children. Right now in schools because of the sick “legalization” our little children are being groomed and indoctrinated to “think” using people in this irrational, degrading way is “normal” and “good’. Go on youtube videos and watch little 5 year olds being shamed “psy-ops” when they mention that they like having both a mother and a father and watch the creepy “teacher” (groomers) state that it is “good” to have equality and for people to “love” (lie—lust) others. Homosexual “marriage” destroys Natural Duties of adults and Natural Rights of children.

It is evil and warps children perceptions of Natural Law—Reality—Truth (God) and science. It normalizes irrationality and nihilism—using others as a means to an end (always evil)-—just like the harem boys in homosexual Afghanistan normalizes lust after males and boys and hate for women and girls in Afghanistan. It destroys possibility of normal, flourishing relationships (true happiness).

As Cicero KNEW-—when Just Laws promote irrational, evil acts—they become normalized in one generation. That is my point....and vice collapses cultures (already known by Cicero). It is only a matter of time before all people are corrupted and sense of Virtue is so distorted doing any irrational, nihilistic “behavior” is “Good” being totally removed from Reality and Truth (God) (Natural Laws).

It took thousands of years for Christians to make pederassty, polygamy, homosexuality, pedophilia, incest, slavery, baby-sacrifice, euthanasia, misogyny into “Evil”-—now we are regressing—LEAVING NATURAL LAWS. Pederasty and polygamy are being normalized as I type—euthanasia, killing old and even children in Canada is now legalized and with it—the little children will be like those of Afghanistan, and tribal, pagan (evil) cultures where using humans as a Means to an End is TOTALLY normalized so we will eventually get the Aztec “culture”-—totally removed from Reality (Natural Law) and it will be worse than Sodom because the depravity of man knows know end.

Go research the elite pedophiles and bankers (the one who refused to rape and kill a toddler and drink the blood, a sacrifice to the Moloch). Study Freemasonry and ex-Satanists and their practices—very common now. Lucifereans who are “directing” and controlling (bribing) our politicians and control culture for their “tastes” now—so we have to condition and groom all the little children and hand them to the State to warp and condition (like Pavlov’s dogs) to “think” so that virtue formation is totally erased in all children. Reason (understanding Nature/Reality) is GONE-—irrationality is finalized so boys are girls, sodomy is a virtue, killing babies and old people and depressed people and crippled people are “Good”.


39 posted on 11/23/2017 7:42:01 AM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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To: NobleFree

No need for “sodomy” police when only Virtue is promoted in laws and virtue formation of children exists in true constitutional “schools” (local control only) is restored and parents are moral and do their Natural Duties of raising and nurturing their own children and not allow perverts and TV to shape the worldview of their children.

We only need “sodomy” police in the parks or public bathrooms—or do you think that is fine for little children to go to the park and watch two or more men sodomizing each other-—or walk into a public bathroom watching two men using each other in filthy irrational ways?


40 posted on 11/23/2017 7:52:55 AM PST by savagesusie (When Law ceases to be Just, it ceases to be Law. (Thomas A./Founders/John Marshall)/Nuremberg)
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