Posted on 10/12/2017 11:42:01 AM PDT by BenLurkin
Bullets can travel.
I tend to apply an “innocent until proven guilty” sort of perspective even to civil cases. And in cases like this, I put myself in the hotel’s shoes. Out of the box I see it as “there had better be some gross negligence here or the planitiff gets nothing.
And I view it from the perspective of before it happened. i.e. it had never happened before.
I was on the juries of two one month technical cases in Seattle in superior court about 30 years ago. As soon as the jury retired to deliberate, I told the rest of the jurors about jury nullification.
Both were civil cases. The defendant won in both cases. One was the city of Seattle regarding a fall on a playground. The other was a doctor replacing blood vessels in a man’s leg.
I saw a recent photo of Las Vegas.
At first, I thought a huge flock of buzzards were circling some road kill.
Then, I looked closely. It wasn’t really a flock of rotting flesh, carrion eating scavengers -
It was the first flock of lawyers......
I understand completely. In this case I’m applying a “guilty until the facts come out” standard because it might be the only way of ensuring that the facts actually DO come out.
The Mandalay Bay portion of the lawsuit is probably fifty-fifty.
The bump-fire stock manufacturer portion is DOA. They can’t be held liable for the illegal use of what amounts to a novelty product.
The festival promoter? That’s got teeth. One can easily argue that when putting on an event such as that, it is the promoter’s responsibility to ensure that in the event of an emergency - yes even one that has “never happened” - their staff are all adequately trained on what actions they should and shouldn’t take. They should be trained on where the emergency exits are and how to get people to them; whether or not to turn on the lights; whether or not to get on the mic and give directions...etc. And there should be medical personnel on site as well. None of that is saying it would have made any difference - but if the plaintiff can show they didn’t have these things...it may make a difference.
And I was a musician in a former life so I’m well aware that 90% of the staff at these shows are either close to or as baked/intoxicated as the rest of the crowd. That could work against them as well if it comes out in depositions.
Preview isn’t your friend... *Proofreading* is your friend.
None of that is saying it would have made any difference in the outcome of the shooting - but if the plaintiff can show they didn’t have these things...it may make a difference in the outcome of the case.
Good point.
>>The emotions of the jury will do the rest.
You can take that to the bank.<<
Assuming it survives the inevitable motion to dismiss.
I doubt it will as a matter of law.
Coming soon - music festivals to spend 15 minutes before the band plays advising people of exits and what to do if someone shoots at the crowd. Just like airline staff telling passengers what to do in emergencies - most people ignore the message until real crap happens then they panic.
That would be funny.
“Ladies and gentlemen if I could have your attention please! Sir, you’re going to need to put the bong down and listen... Thank you.”
Yes, that’s funny but the reality is that people working at large festivals like this *should* be at least run through a short workshop on what to do in the event of some sort of incident. Where are the emergency exits? How do they work? All of that. But they’re not. They’re minimum wage workers. Or worse.
My friend and I roadied the San Francisco dates during the first Lalapalooza tour for $200 cash and two garbage bags of Camel cigarettes. Yeah, I’m serious. We worked a lot in the mornings and evenings but spent most of our time baked up and watching the bands. Any incident at all would have been a *complete* disaster because there were *no* emergency exits at all. IIRC there were two “entrances” that were choke points to guarantee that those who didn’t pay were kept out. This is the primary concern of the promoters - guaranteeing that only those who paid get in. Emergency exits are places where folks can sneak in which means they would need to hire more security to watch them - and that’s not going to happen.
Honestly, I’m surprised it took this long for there to be an incident like this at some festival. My guess is the promoter will simply file bankruptcy and those who end up suing will get very little if anything.
When I was young many decades ago, drive-in movies were everywhere. Besides getting sneaked in via hiding in the trunk of friend's cars, sometimes I would sneak in via an emergency exit. Security never locked the gates, and rarely drove in that way. I turned off my lights, had a kill switch on the brake lights, and drove my car in that way to avoid paying.
You're right, first concern of promoters is to limit entrance to paying customers and reduce number of exits to limit non-paying customers. It's money first (otherwise no concert at all).
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